Questions on next version 5.6

[JPD]

Igor, you wrote me :

Please could you suggest ideas how to improve it and make more suitable for you?

But please take in attention that not all users know about this method. And If it's possible to use Original sized objects with another technique, and we know, users use it, we have to support all possible variants usage of Original sized objects. And I as explained Original sized objects placed directly onto slide will not be shown correctly in small video size output (iPhone, Youtube), different display resolutions.

So, here is my proposal :

About format what we need as users ?

We have photos or others and we want they are see correctly on all screens without distorsions, so :

1 - We need to respect the ratio we need as PTE do today. So we have to define the format (what PTE do today).

Sometimes some people want there slideshow is 95% of the screen, and others want to do DVD in PAL:SECAM or NTSC, unforunately most of TV in Europe need a safe zone.

2 - So we also need to be abble to have the slideshow reduice at 95 or 90%, not only the main image but all the slides.

3 - We also need to have nicer slideshow to have the choice to have an outside background from format with a color (as you did in 5.6) and also gradient filling or picture.

4 - A global option about shadow would be nice, not on all objects as today, but around the format.

5 - We also need to choice with which screen definition we want to have a not-resized slideshow (for instance on my Full HD TV : 1920 x 1080)

6 - We also must have the possibility to choice between 4 options on how to see the slideshow :

- Fit the format to screen, with a ratio between 0 and 100% (near as today, but not the main image but the entire format).

- Fit to screen when screen definition smaller than nominal format definiition, else nominal (original) size as did V4 for main pictures (a good solution for Barry Beckham)

- Cover screen (nominal size) mode for all screen definition (even if the screen definition is smaller)

- Windowed mode as it work in V5.52 (with ability to have the slideshow on several screens or not, with 5.6 to day we only can use 2 screens).

Project Options ...

With the option "Fit to screen main image", a newbee will easily put his photos, even they aren't at the good size, when putting a picture in the slideshow, PTE will calculate the zoom to put on this picture in order it is at the maximal sire without be cut. For the normal users of PTE they will make this option diseabble and PTE will not calculate a zoom, the default value is 100% as today.

Screen Options :

The tiled image is always centered and can be scale from 0% to 1000% (or another value highter than 100%). PTE resize it with the same value as for other objects, depending of the ratio between hight of format on screen and hight of format definition (see above for K definition). This in order a picture beginning inside the format, can continue outside the format without default even the screen definition change

Options Fit to screen

"Fit to screen when screen smaller than format, else original mode" do as in V4 : when the screen definition is highter than the format definition, it stay in original mode (at the size of the format definition), if the screen definition is smaller, the format is fit to screen (it will solve Barry Beckham's problem). It also could be call "Original mode"

Others options :

Cover mode could be used for several screens slideshow or if we want a 16:9 slide show can be fulscreen on a 4:3 screen format (of course a part will be cut). Windowed mode has an option "Fit to screen if too large", the same as in V5.6 for windowed mode, and when unselected, without resize the format as in V5.5 in order to have the possiblity to make a slideshow on several screens or videoprojectors.

About format resizing :

You can download Excel file here

The method consist to have a shadow object at level 0 with a size equal at the format definition and wich would be resize in order its hight is the same as the one of the format on the screen. In the example above, this shadow object with a nominale size 1152 x 768 would be resized on a screen with 1280 x 960 definition at 1278 x 960, corresponding at a shadow zoom of 110.967500% and as parent of all the others objectc, this shadow zoom would modified them.

The objects with such method

As they are the children of the shadow object level 0, they can be in original mode (for the format we chose) and they all be resized with the same value by the shadow zoom of shadow object level 0. So no need to chose a format and no need to have a tool to calculate the size and/or the position. The position is as today in pixels between parent's center and child's center, nothing to change, and no need "Cale", easiest for everybody and less calculations (we don't make calculation about the size of the parent with the choice between fit to and Cover to resize a child). To have an exact position, no need to have 8 numbers after the point of a value, 3 are enought (the most precision we need is 1/256 for the pixel position).

I have try to be so clear as I can, if you have questions, ask me. I really think to a simplest and logical method, most of what we need to do it is inside V5.52, only few features more are necessary to do it, and as you wnt there will be only one method for calcuation to support for the future. With this method, all objects placed directly onto slide will be always shown correctly, even in smal video size output No need for user to know Cale method, they work with PTE as they do today, but without to think wich mode to chose (and make mistakes), objects will always be resized as the format.

[1colibri]

Hi Igor,

During several hours, JPD and I, have been dicussing the topics he describe in his message and I fully support his request.

I hope you will be in favor to give all attention to the subject.

Regards

Jean-Claude

[francisdem]

Hi Igor,

I just registered my on your forum but i'm an user of PTE from the first version. And I will congratulate you and your team for the verry good job you do with PTE this is a pleasure to use this soft.

I don't wrote this post only to congratulate you but also to add an agreement with the need discribed by JPD this is for us end users mandatory to have the original size.

Thanks to conserv this possibility in the future version.

Thanks a lot to JPD for the exellent explanaitions joint to his topics.

Best regards

Francis

[JLBG]

Bonjour à WinSoft et à Igor en particulier.

Membre de « Diapositif » et utilisateur de PTE depuis quelques années, je rejoins l’avis général en ce qui concerne la suppression du mode « Original » dans la dernière version du logiciel (5.6)

En effet je pense sincèrement que c’est une erreur de la supprimer et qu’il serait judicieux de la remettre en place.

Espérant que cette requête aboutira, je vous adresse à tous sans exception mes félicitations pour votre travail.

Cordialement.

Jean-Louis Brissy-Grangier

Hello in WinSoft and Igor in particular.

Member of “Diapositif” and user of PTE for a few years, I have joined the opinion general with regard to the suppression of the “Original” mode in the last version of the software (5.6)

Indeed I think sincerely that it is an error to remove it and that it would be judicious to position it back.

Hoping that this request will succeed, I address to you with all without exception my congratulations for your work.

Cordially.

Jean-Louis Brissy-Grangier

[Gérard de Lux]

I'm also deeply shocked by the suppression of the 'Original' mode. All my slideshows have been made in this mode since it exists and, after a few trials, I don't see how the new parameters indicated by Igor could really and fully replace the 'original' mode. This is highly disturbing.

This issue has been, and still is, largely discussed on the two French forums (Diapositif and DiaporamaForum) which are big supporters of PTE, as most of the French AV authors use this mode intensively ! The previous comments along the same lines made above by several members of these forums bear witness of the profound unsatisfactory situation, and those who registered here today to express their views on thiscontroversial issue are only the emerging part of the iceberg !

I think, and we think, that Jean-Pierre has very strong arguments and the solution put forward by him seems very sensible and reasonable !

[JPD]

See the block below which says (size/position in pixels). You can put original size in at this point.

Lin, I think you don't really see the problem about original size, I'll try to be understand, but it's very difficult.

I often made slideshow with a nominal size for my picture of 1920 x 1080 (Versailles for instance), so when I work with Paintshop (it would be the same with Photoshop), I made my future effects in it above a picture of 1920 x 1080 in several layers, sometimes I have many and many layers in which are parts of the background photo (for instance the rectangles in Versailles, 45 for the same slide). I know exactly how many pixels are between each part of photo between 2 layers. This number of pixels is for a definition of 1920 x 1080.

When I work, my screen is too little (19") to work easily with 1920 x 1440 screen definition (my eyes are old), so I work with 1280 x 960 screen definition, but the number of pixels I have from Paintshop is for a 1920 x 1080 definition (my picture).

When I work with PTE, in the past, I put a "Cale" of 1080 x 2 in Fit to screen and all my objects as child of this cale in original mode, and when I put 2 rectangles for instance, the diffence between there center was exactly the same number of pixels as in Paintshop.

Now, with the tool Igor made, the number of pixels you put depend of the screen definition you are using.

Example to be understand, here is a simple rectangle put at 50% of zoom. When I am in 1280 x 960 screen definition, the values of position are 320; 240, the same object when I use a 1152 x 864 screen definition become 288; 216.

I don't want to be obliged to use a screen definition equal at the nominal definition of my slideshow to report exact value without having to calcultate each size or position value. It's not original mode, sorry.

Another point, it's possible to use this new method for position when the rotation is 0, have you try it with a rotation of 30° for instance. May be I am not enough good, but I am enable to use it at this moment.

With 1152 x 864 screen definition, the object in pixels is 576 x 432

With a 1280 x 960 screen definition, the size is now 640 x 480, that show that the number of pixel depend of the screen definition and will not be the size of the object in PaintshopPro or other if I decide to use another definition than this of my screen.

With this example, may be you can use position information, but I am enable to use it.

Note there is a bug I report here but will also put in the right topic : if I put 0 for rotation instead of 30, the calculation of position become wrong

The correct position is 320; 240

[JPD]

This proposal complete the first one and use a function to correct the problem we had when slide show run on a screen definition which isn't the one chose by author.

1- Structure

The idea is always to have a format we define as nominal when building the slide show, for instance 1920 x 1280. This virtual object will be resize by PTE, always with even dimensions, depending of its original size, the screen definition or the values of window (for windowed mode) and a percent of screen we choice. PTE will calculate and put it an horizontal zoom and a vertical zoom.

The picture below show the structure and the relationship between all PTE elements :

The relationship between the virtual object Format and its children is exactly the same as this between object level 1 in original mode and object level 2 in original mode as we have in V5.5. The values of Pan, Center, Rotation are always at 0, Zoom values, calculted by PTE aren't necessary the same. This virtual object can have a real shadow.

All the objects in Object and animation Window have the same carateristics than actual objects in original mode and position in Pixels we have today in V5.5. No option to chose between Fit and Cover, only one mode.

2- Screen options

There are 5 options about adjust the format (or not) to screen or Window :

- The full format is Fit to screen

- The full format is in original mode if screen definition greater than format definition, and fit to screen if screen definition smaller as format definition (as it was in V4 for Main Image)

- The full format is Fit to height of screen

- The full format is Fit to Window, with 2 Options for Window :

..... - The window is always at the size which is define (as in V5.5)

..... - The window is at its size if the screen definition is greater, and is Fit to screen if the screen definition is smaller (as in V5.6)

An option permit to ajust format in % of its full size (today it's only on main images)

......2.1 Fit to screen option

Calculation of the format :

1 - define the usefull area :

......Screen_width x Percent_format_on_screen = Width_area

......Screen_hight x Percent_format_on_screen = Hight_area

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......Width area / Width nominal format = Width ratio

......Hight area / Hight nominal format = Hight ratio

......Ratio = min (Width ration;Hight ratio)

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (Width_nominal_format x Ratio / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (Hight_nominal_format x Ratio / 2) x 2

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width_zoom = Width_on_screen / Width_nominal_format

......Hight_zoom = Hight_on_screen / Hight_nominal_format

The part of calculation in blue is the same for all screen options

If we take the example above, the size of the nominal format is 1920 x 1280.

We use a screen definition 1792 x 1344 display (4:3)

We fisrt choice 100% as format size on screen the values will be :

1 - define the usefull area :

......1792 x 100% = 1792

......1344 x 100% = 1344

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......1792 / 1920 = 93.33333333%

......1344 / 1280 = 105.0000000%

......Ratio = 93.33333333%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1920 x 93.33333333% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1280 x 93.33333333% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1792 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1194.66666667 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (896) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (597.33333333) x 2

......Width on screen = 896 x 2 = 1792

......Hight on screen = 597 x 2 = 1194

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 1792 / 1920 = 93.33333333%

......Hight zoom = 1194 / 1280 = 93.28125000%

Now we choice 90% as format size on screen the values will be :

1 - define the usefull area :

......1792 x 90% = 1612.8

......1344 x 90% = 1209.6

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......1612.8 / 1920 = 84.00000000%

......1209.6 / 1280 = 94.50000000%

......Ratio = 84.00000000%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1920 x 84.00000000% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1280 x 84.00000000% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1612.8 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1075.2 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (806.4) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (537.6) x 2

......Width on screen = 806 x 2 = 1612

......Hight on screen = 538 x 2 = 1076

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 1612 / 1920 = 83.95833333%

......Hight zoom = 1076 / 1280 = 84.06250000%

On a 1920 x 1440 screen definition display,with 100% as format size on screen, the 2 zooms of format would be at 100% and objects above the format wouldn't be resized by it.

......2.2 Nominal size if screen greater, else Fit to screen

Calculation of the format :

1 - define the usefull area :

......Smallest value between (Width_nominal_format;Screen_width) x Percent_format_on_screen = Width_area

......Smallest value between (Hight_nominal_format ;Screen_hight) x Percent_format_on_screen = Hight_area

Others calculations like for Fit to screen option (point 2 - 4)

If we take the example above, the size of the nominal format is 1920 x 1280.

We use a screen definition 2048 x 1536 display (4:3)

We fisrt choice 100% as format size on screen the values will be :

1 - define the usefull area :

......Smallest value between (1920; 2048) * 100% = 1920 (Width)

......Smallest value between (1280; 1536) * 100% = 1280 (Hight)

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......1920 / 1920 = 100%

......1280 / 1280 = 100%

......Ratio = 100%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1920 x 100% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1280 x 100% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1920 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1280 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (960) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (640) x 2

......Width on screen = 960 x 2 = 1920

......Hight on screen = 640 x 2 = 1280

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 1920 / 1920 = 100%

......Hight zoom = 1280 / 1280 = 100%

Now we choice 90% as format size on screen the values will be :

1 - define the usefull area :

......Smallest value between (1920; 2048) * 90% = 1728 (Width)

......Smallest value between (1280; 1536) * 90% = 1152 (Hight)

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......1728 / 1920 = 90.00000000%

......1152 / 1280 = 90.00000000%

......Ratio = 90.00000000%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1920 x 90.00000000% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1280 x 90.00000000% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1728 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1152 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (864) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (576) x 2

......Width on screen = 864 x 2 = 1728

......Hight on screen = 576 x 2 = 1152

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 1728 / 1920 = 90%

......Hight zoom = 1076 / 1280 = 90%

The others examples are as Fit to screen (see 2.1)

......2.3 Fit to hight

Calculation of the format :

1 - define the usefull area :

......Width_nominal_format / Hight_nominal_format x Screen_hight x Percent_format_on_screen = Width area

......Screen_hight x Percent_format_on_screen = Hight area

Others calculations like for Fit to screen option (point 2 - 4)

If we take the examples above, we'll see that we can ajust a slideshow on several screens at the same time. Today we only do that in V5.5 in Windowed mode, without possibilities to fit to hight.

For the fisrt example we have a slideshow with a format definition of 4800 x 1200 for 3 screens or video projectors having a format 4:3 with a definition of 1440 x 1080. The % format on screen is 100%.

1 - define the usefull area :

......4800 / 1200 x 1080 x 100% = 4320

......1080 x 100% = 1080

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......4800 / 4320 = 90%

......1200 / 1080 = 90%

......Ratio = 90%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (4800 x 90% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1200 x 90% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (4320 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1080 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (2160) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (540) x 2

......Width on screen = 2160 x 2 = 4320

......Hight on screen = 540 x 2 = 1080

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 4320 / 4800 = 90%

......Hight zoom = 1080 / 1200 = 90%

For the second example we have a slideshow with a format definition of 4096 x 768 for 4 screens or video projectors having a format 4:3 with a definition of 1280 x 960. The % format on screen is 100%.

Note : the 2 screens in the middle are see as only one screen in horizontal and are see as a 2560 x 960 screen definition (see graphic card parameters)

1 - define the usefull area :

......4096 / 768 x 960 x 100% = 5120

......960 x 100% = 960

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......5120 / 4096 = 125%

......960 / 768 = 125%

......Ratio = 125%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (4096 x 125% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (768 x 125% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (5120 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (960 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (2560) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (480) x 2

......Width on screen = 2560 x 2 = 5120

......Hight on screen = 480 x 2 = 960

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 5120 / 4096 = 125%

......Hight zoom = 960 / 768 = 125%

For the third example we have a slideshow with a format definition of 4800 x 2400 for 6 screens or video projectors having a format 4:3 with a definition of 1440 x 1080. The % format on screen is always at100%.

Note : the 2 screens in the middle are see as only one screen in vertical and are see as a 1440 x 2160 screen definition (see graphic card parameters)

1 - define the usefull area :

......4800 / 2400 x 2160 x 100% = 4320

......2160 x 100% = 2160

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......4320 / 4800 = 90%

......2160 / 2400 = 90%

......Ratio = 90%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (4800 x 90% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (2400 x 90% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (4320 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (2160 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (2160) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1080 x 2

......Width on screen = 2160 x 2 = 4320

......Hight on screen = 1080 x 2 = 2160

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 4800 / 4320 = 90%

......Hight zoom = 2400 / 2160 = 90%

For these 3 examples, the calculations could be simplest but here, it use the same way of caculation as the others options ( blue lines).

This option is usefull for those who make stereo slideshows, cinemascope slideshow and wall of images. There are today, since several years V4 and V5 slideshows like that, now with mask it's more possible because we can easily make Pan, Zoom and Rotation on such slideshow, before it was impossible or very difficult.

......2.4 Windowed mode (2 options)

For these modes, the format is always "Fit to Window"

Calculation of the format :

1 - define the usefull area :

....1.1 Without Option "Fit to screen if too large" (as in V5.52) :

......Window_width x Percent_format_on_screen = Width area

......Window_hight x Percent_format_on_screen = Hight area

....1.2 With Option "Fit to screen if too large" (as in 5.6 beta #1) :

......Smallest value between (Screen_width;Window_width) x Percent_format_on_screen = Width area

......Smallest value between (Screen_hight;Window_hight) x Percent_format_on_screen = Hight area

Others calculations like for Fit to screen option (point 2 - 4)

For the fisrt example we have a slideshow with a format definition of 1152 x 768 and a 1920 x 1280 window on a 2048 x 1536 screen definition with 100% for "Format size on screen" with or without the option "Fit to screen if too large", the result will be the same :

1 - define the usefull area :

...1.1 - Without option "Fit..."

......1920 x 100% = 1920

......1280 x 100% = 1280

..1.2 - With option "Fit..."

......Smallest value between (2048;1920) x 100% = 1920

......Smallest value between (1536;1280) x 100% = 1280

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......1920 / 1152 = 166.66666667%

......1280 / 768 = 166.66666667%

......Ratio = 166.66666667%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1152 x 166.66666667% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (768 x 166.66666667% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1920 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1280 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (960) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (640) x 2

......Width on screen = 960 x 2 = 1920

......Hight on screen = 640 x 2 = 1280

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 1920 / 1152 = 166.66666667%

......Hight zoom = 1280 / 768 = 166.66666667%

For the second example we have a slideshow with a format definition of 1152 x 768 and a 1920 x 1280 window on a 2048 x 1536 screen definition with 90% for "Format size on screen" with or without the option "Fit to screen if too large", the result will be the same :

1 - define the usefull area :

...1.1 - Without option "Fit..."

......1920 x 90% = 1728

......1280 x 90% = 1152

..1.2 - With option "Fit..."

......Smallest value between (2048;1920) x 90% = 1728

......Smallest value between (1536;1280) x 90% = 1152

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......1728 / 1152 = 150.00000000%

......1152 / 768 = 150.00000000%

......Ratio = 150.00000000%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1152 x 150% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (768 x 1150% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1728 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1152 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (864) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (576) x 2

......Width on screen = 864 x 2 = 1728

......Hight on screen = 576 x 2 = 1152

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 1728 / 1152 = 150.00000000%

......Hight zoom = 1152 / 768 = 150.00000000%

For the third example we have a slideshow with a format definition of 1152 x 768 and a 1920 x 1280 window on a 1792 x 1344 screen definition with 100% for "Format size on screen" without the option "Fit to screen if too large", the usefull area is the same as in first example :

1 - define the usefull area :

...1.1 - Without option "Fit..."

......1920 x 100% = 1920

......1280 x 100% = 1280

The result for format on screen is the same as for first example : 1920 x 1280, the window (1920 x 1280) will be cut on screen (as in V5.5 today, very usefull for Slideshows which needs several screens or video-projectors)

For the fourth example we have a slideshow with a format definition of 1152 x 768 and a 1920 x 1280 window on a 1792 x 1344 screen definition with 90% for "Format size on screen" without the option "Fit to screen if too large", the usefull area is the same as in first example :

1 - define the usefull area :

...1.1 - Without option "Fit..."

......1920 x 90% = 1728

......1280 x 90% = 1152

The result for format on screen is the same as for second example : 1728 x 1152, the window 1920 x 1280) will be cut on screen (as in V5.5 today, very usefull for Slideshows which needs several screens or video-projectors)

For the fifth example we have a slideshow with a format definition of 1152 x 768 and a 1920 x 1280 window on a 1792 x 1344 screen definition with 100% for "Format size on screen" with the option "Fit to screen if too large".

1 - define the usefull area :

......Smallest value between (1792;1920) x 100% = 1792

......Smallest value between (1344;1280) x 100% = 1280

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......1792 / 1152 = 155.55555556%

......1280 / 768 = 166.66666667%

......Ratio = 155.55555556%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1152 x 155.555555567% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (768 x 155.55555556% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1792 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1194.66666667 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (896) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (597.33333334) x 2

......Width on screen = 896 x 2 = 1792

......Hight on screen = 597 x 2 = 1194

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 1920 / 1152 = 155.55555556%

......Hight zoom = 1280 / 768 = 155.46875000%

For the sixth example we have a slideshow with a format definition of 1152 x 768 and a 1920 x 1280 window on a 1792 x 1344 screen definition with 90% for "Format size on screen" with the option "Fit to screen if too large".

1 - define the usefull area :

......Smallest value between (1792;1920) x 90% = 1612.8

......Smallest value between (1344;1280) x 90% = 1152

2 - search the minimal ratio between Width of area/format and Higth of area/format

......1612.8 / 1152 = 140.00000000%

......1152 / 768 = 150.0000000%

......Ratio = 140.0000000%

3 - Find the value of the format on screen which must be an even value :

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1152 x 140% / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (768 x 140% / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (1612.8 / 2) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (1075.2 / 2) x 2

......Width on screen = Nearest entire value (806.4) x 2

......Hight on screen = Nearest entire value (537.6) x 2

......Width on screen = 806 x 2 = 1612

......Hight on screen = 538 x 2 = 1076

4 - Calculate the values of zoom to put in the virtual parent "Format"

......Width zoom = 1612 / 1152 = 139.93055556%

......Hight zoom = 1076 / 768 = 140.10416667%

Continued on next post

[JPD]

The post above was too long for Firefox and I couln't edit it with Firefox to continue. So I have edit it with Internet explorer and cut a part and past here

3 - Tiled background picture

In order it's the same options as today for users and works with this proposal, there are some calculations to do :

1 - Resize the picture to fit the hight of it to the hight of the nominal format :

......Nominal format hight / Picture hight = Full hight tiled picture ratio

2 - Resize the result with the percent we put in Customize slide window

......Full hight tiled picture ratio x Customize percent for tiled picture = Customize nominal ratio for tiled picture

3 - Resize the new result with the same 2 values use for "Virtual parent Format"

......Width zoom tiled picture = Customize nominal ratio for tiled picture x Width zoom

......Hight zoom tiled picture = Customize nominal ratio for tiled picture x Hight zoom

An exemple of calculation :

Real size of Tiled picture 500 x 500

Size of image (in Customize slide window) : 50%

Others parameters are the same than sixth example of 2.4 Windowed mode in previous post

Nominal size of format : 1152 x 768

% Format size on screen : 90

Windowed mode at 1920 x 1280 with "Fit to screen if too large option"

Screen definition : 1792 x 1344

With :

......Width zoom = 139.93055556%

......Hight zoom = 140.10416667%

1 - Resize the picture to fit the hight of it to the hight of the nominal format :

......768 / 500 = 153.600%

2 - Resize the result with the percent we put in Customize slide window

......153.600% x 50% = 76.800%

3 - Resize the new result with the same 2 values use for "Virtual parent Format"

......107.46666667% = 76.800% x 139.93055556%

......107.46666667% = 76.800% x 140.10416667%

The size of the tiled picture on this screen will be :

width = 537.332 px (1), hight = 538 px

(1) the value would really be 537.33334; but the least step for pixel is 1/256, so the nearest value is 537.332

4 - Copyright logo

It could be possible to have only Pan and zoom as informations to put the Copyright logo but in order it's the same options as today for users and works with this proposal, there are some calculations to do :

1 - Resize the logo to fit the hight of it to the hight of the nominal format :

......Nominal format hight / Logo hight = Full hight logo ratio

2 - Resize the result with the percent we put in Customize Copyright logo window

......Full hight logo ratio x Customize percent for logo = Customize nominal ratio for logo

3 - Resize the new result with the same 2 values use for "Virtual parent Format"

......Width zoom logo = Customize nominal ratio for logo x Width zoom

......Hight zoom logo = Customize nominal ratio for logo x Hight zoom

4 - We also have to calculate the horizontal and vertical pan for the different actual options and the value of the offset for the nominal format :

.....There are 2 parameters for this position :

........1 - a position

........2 - an offset value

The final position of the center of the logo for nominal format depend of the reference position (0% or 100%) + or - the offset which is a percent of half format + or - half of picture for nominal format (width or hight).

4.1 - Horizontal Pan for nominal format :

Left................................(Width_nominal_format x (Offset_percent - 100%) + Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_width) / 2

Right..............................(Width_nominal_format x (Offset_percent - 100%) + Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_width) / 2

Center............................Always 0

Left-Top.........................(Width_nominal_format x (Offset_percent - 100%) + Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_width) / 2

Right-Top........................(Width_nominal_format x (Offset_percent - 100%) + Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_width) / 2

Right-Bottom...................(Width_nominal_format x (Offset_percent - 100%) + Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_width) / 2

Left-Bottom.....................(Width_nominal_format x (Offset_percent - 100%) + Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_width) / 2

4.2 - Vertical pan for nominal format :

Top................................(Hight_nominal_format x (Offset_percent - 100%) + Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_hight) / 2

Bottom...........................(Hight_nominal_format x (100% - Offset_percent) - Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_hight) / 2

Center............................Always 0

Left-Top..........................(Hight_nominal_format x (Offset_percent - 100%) + Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_hight) / 2

Right-Top........................((Hight_nominal_format x (Offset_percent - 100%) + Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_hight) / 2

Right-Bottom...................(Hight_nominal_format x (100% - Offset_percent) - Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_hight) / 2

Left-Bottom.....................(Hight_nominal_format x (100% - Offset_percent) - Customize_nominal_ratio_for_logo x Logo_hight) / 2

5 - The pan's value for nominal format are, as the size of the Logo, to be resize by the Width zoom and the Hight zoom

5.1 - Horizontal pan on screen : Horizontal Pan for nominal format x Width zoom

5.2 - Vertical pan on screen : Vertical Pan for nominal format x Hight zoom

5 - New option in "Advanced option"

Fit to screen main image :

In order begginers or those who want to do very quickly a slideshow with the pictures from there cameras, an option (default option) will ask to PTE, instead to put a defaut value of 100% on the main image to calculte an put the right value as zoom for the main image when it is put in the slideshow, and only when cerate a slide with a picture.

The default value of format could be a fixed value like 1024 x 768 or the current screen definition when creating the slideshow, value that we can change after.

In both solution, PTE would calculate the minimum ration between Hight of current format / Hight of photo and Width of current format / Width of photo and put the value as zoom for the photo, so we'll have the same use as to day

6 - Why it would be simplest and better for users

6.1 - First, with the new screens options :

..........1 - We could have the possibility to reduce all the slides and not only the main image, which is a problem today to use this function.

..........2 - When format would be reduce, there won't be possibilty to see object around when pan zoom or rotation it would be easiest to modify the size of a slideshow to ajust it to the safe-zone

..........3 - It would be possible to do slideshow in original mode but which could be see correctly if the screen definition isn't enough (was a problem for Barry Beckhm for instance)

..........4 - PTE could be used to drive several video-projectors as it was posible with V4 and V5

..........5 - It would be possible to put a screen background picture (outside of the format) as it was possible in V4 when using Copyright logo as screen backgroug and objects for pictures

..........6 - The option for shadow wouldn't be on all objects as today, which isn't easy to use, but around the format, which would be easiest to use.

6.2 - With the method of virtual parent Format

..........1 - As PTE know for which nominal size it's original mode, it can calculate exactly which is the good resize for width and the good resize for hight when the ratio on another screen definition isn't the same as for nominal size. So that, nominal size picture will be always exactly the same size as Format, with even value : picture will never crop as to day it's possible (a very little) or don't be a little smaller than format on screen with problems of lines on the borders (enough to be see by everybody).

..........2 - The virtual parent Format as the same effect on its children as a normal object, so it is not necessary to have several mode for objects, they all can be as is the original mode, they will be ajust to the screen by the object Format, the value of pixel for Pan won't depend of the definition of the screen we have but of the format definition, we will choice, exactly as we do when using Photoshop or other, when you make a rectangle selection, the number of pixel never depend of the screen you use. It would be easy to read the exact values we need in Photoshop and put them in PTE, it's impossible today with V5.6.

..........3 - The picture will not be resize for nominal format if all zooms of object and parents are at 100%, with other mode you often be obliged to put 6 figures after the entire value.

It's really easiest to put a picture always at 100% than be obliged to choice between cover and fit and then calculate the zoom and put its exact value twice if more than 3 figures after entire value.

..........

Nobody will be enough courageous to calculate and put the right percent and we will lost precision it's easy to have today with less work (Sorry, I am lazy).

..........4 - As PTE would know the nominal size of the format, it could use the standard size for fonts as does all programs and not a percent, it would enough easy, I think, to do. To day it's impossible.

7 - For PTE

It would need only one algorithm for relationship parent-children, this algorithm exist.

The calculation with a pen and a sheet of paper are simplest with an virtual parent "Format" and all objects in original mode than the 2 others mode, I don't see any reason it would be different for a computer.

PTE would have more possibilities as today.

I have simulate on V5.5 and V5.6 all the examples, even for the calculations of Tiled background picture and Copyright logo, all is absolutely perfect.

All the part of PTE would have exaltly the same resize, it's not absolutly true to day, Tiled background picture and Copyright logo are always resize with there hight, the others objects, sometimes on there hight, sometimes on there width, it depend of the mode option, the shape of the parent and the shape of the object (good exercise against Alzheimer).

PTE 5.6 can easily be modify to work like I suggest, it will really be simplest to use.

This choice seems to me very important for the leadership of PTE for quality of pictures and assemblies, don't lose that.

In all product which works with pictures, like Photoshop, PaintshopPro, Pixbuilder and so on, the reference for pictures are always give in pixels, and the position of others pictures put above the background image have they position always in entire value of pixel (be abble to put a not entire value in PTE is very good), never in percent. So that it's possible to give a value for fonts.

Why use another method than this one in PTE, in which it's the current screen definition and the format which are the reference, why others products would be wrong ?

Warning : I made a mistake with translation, I used the word "Odd" instead the word "Even", I have correct the words I found, but it's possible I forgot one. Thanks to Peter to give me the right word.

[d67]

Wow .... a post for the Guiness book of records !!!! The longest one, ever !

PTE becomes an excellent subject for mathematicians

[davegee]

Re: Nominal size if screen greater, else Fit to screen

I proposed this a few versions back - no one was interested then!

DaveG

[xahu34]

Hello,

There seems to be something wrong with JPD's post no. 82. Firefox stops showing this thread with post 82 (in standard disply mode), and does not show posts 83 and the ones following. This post has been written with IE.

Best regards,

Xaver

Munich

[xahu34]

Hello Jean-Pierre,

I would recommend to prepare your explanations using MS Word or OpenOffice, and publish it as an attachment in PDF.

Best regards,

Xaver

Munich

[Ken Cox]

looks ok on both ie 6 and latest firefox and safari

all picts shown + all the other entries he made re editing

this written with ie 6

[xahu34]

looks ok on both ie 6 and latest firefox and safari

In the meantime, post 82 has been edited!

Regards,

Xaver

[d67]

There seems to be something wrong with JPD's post no. 82. Firefox stops showing this thread with post 82 (in standard disply mode), and does not show posts 83 and the ones following. This post has been written with IE.

No problem for me but I had to do this :

(post 82x12) / (post 83x3) =X

X/ (10% of 1.235655) = Y

take 25.33% of (X+Y) and then display of posts is perfect for IE and Firefox

[xahu34]

No problem for me but I had to do this :

(post 82x12) / (post 83x3) =X

X/ (10% of 1.235655) = Y

take 25.33% of (X+Y) and then display of posts is perfect for IE and Firefox

I guess you will call this humor

Xaver

Munich

[JPD]

Re: Nominal size if screen greater, else Fit to screen

I proposed this a few versions back - no one was interested then!

DaveG

It would at least interest Barry Beckham who want to have original size for his slideshow made on his 1280 x 1024 screen and that people with a smaller screen couldn't see correctly

[JPD]

The proposal about Format in post #82 and # 83 is finish. I have spend a lot of time to explain exactly how it could work. I have made simulations of all options I explained with V5.5 and Pre-beta 5.6, the PTE engine works perfectly to obtain good result with the method I explained above.

As it seem most of users don't understand why I used cale, (a method to say to PTE which is the nominal format) and most people seems to find normal to work in percent (or pixels depending or the screen definition), I was obliged to show that it's possible PTE work with objects in original mode as do Paintshop and others.

You can take an hour and try to understand, I spent more to try to make PTE better and it's everybody who are concerned for the future.

It's fun to see some people who always say that a not resize slideshow was the best rule for quality, laught when I try to obtain this possibility. It's easiest than try to do something.

[Lin Evans]

Hi Jean-Pierre,

After carefully evauating your proposal, I believe this is a viable alternative for the PTE development team to consider. You have thoroughly and carefully explained how it would be possible to precisely calculate and display image and objects for any size screen.

How this might fit into the PTE development process including the programming and planned features for future implementation only Igor and the development team can determine. Personally, I see no major obstacles or flaws and it would satisfy the requests for preserving the original mode and keep PTE consistent with Photoshop and other major programs.

Thank you for what has obviously been a tremendous amount of work. I could not even imagine myself trying to make this explanation in a language foreign to me. You have done an exemplary job of explaining a very complex proposal and I sincerely hope forum members will take the time to carefully read it and understand the significance.

Best regards, and thank you very much!

Lin

[Maureen]

Merci JPD

You have worked very hard.

I hope Igor and others will understand the importance of what you say.

Recently I have viewed several excellent slide shows on new HD (1920px by 1080px) projectors / beamers and it is interesting how suddenly in the middle of a sequence/ diaporama one image will suddenly pop out fill the screen and disrupt the flow. The author has inserted an image larger than the others, maybe by accident. With previous projectors (1024px) this was not so important, now how we decide to set the images to display is crucial

This is a very important issue for the future of PTE.

Best Wishes

Maureen

[JPD]

Thanks Lin, the most important for me is to be understand, it's not easy for me, even in french. I worked on this subject for a month, compiling all requests about it and try to put in the suggestion. Your help is very important for me.

Merci JPD

You have worked very hard.

I hope Igor and others will understand the importance of what you say.

Recently I have viewed several excellent slide shows on new HD (1920px by 1080px) projectors / beamers and it is interesting how suddenly in the middle of a sequence/ diaporama one image will suddenly pop out fill the screen and disrupt the flow. The author has inserted an image larger than the others, maybe by accident. With previous projectors (1024px) this was not so important, now how we decide to set the images to display is crucial

This is a very important issue for the future of PTE.

Best Wishes

Maureen

Thanks, Maureen, that's right that sometimes there are slideshow with original mode as object level one and it's a problem when we don't see the slideshow at its native definition, the both solutions will make that impossible.

[morasoft]

Hello Jean Pierre:

I have no words to express what I think of your great job.

It is simply excellent.

Thank you for taking your time to explain this whole process.

morasoft.

[JPD]

Thanks Morasoft, I have to add some features more in order it's complete, bur the most important is done, now.

[hlion]

Hello Jean-Pierre,

Thank you so much to have taken your time to give us and especially Igor's team these thorough explanations in order to help PTE to retain it's leadership in programs for AVs.

I hope that Igor will integrate this in the next version of PTE and that your name will be associated with this important and indispensable evolution of PTE.

In the meantime I hope that you will rest a little...

Best reagrs and many , many thanks,

henri

[marcdenny]

I am a new user from PTE, I find the "original mode" very good, and his suppression is not good