Sound in PTE

[saussol]

Hello, my name is Michel Saussol from France ( sorry for my poor english!), I am using PTE since several years... I got the V6 and in this last release the improvments are still on images and not for sound... I am very desapointed like a lot of people because the improvments that we are waiting are about sound : PTE need at least 2 tracks to do some very simple sounds mixts, we need also to do fade in, fade out and to change the sounds levels...

All the others diaporamas softwares have this kind of sound management, a lot of people do not migrate to PTE only for the sound not very friendly on PTE.

Please, could you take this request for the next realese ?

Thanks and best regards.

Michel

[fh1805]

Bonjour Michel,

You are quite correct. Some of us have been asking for improvements to PTE's sound file handling for many years. Earlier this year Igor did drop a hint that he might be considering sound as part of the next release of PTE. We'll just have to be patient.

regards,

Peter

(PGA on Diapositif.net)

[Lin Evans]

Hi Michel,

I agree with you that PTE needs sound improvements including fade in/fade out, etc.

On the other hand, you are way off base that "all the other diaporamas software" have this kind of sound management. In fact, very "few" have this kind of sound management. The really expensive software such as Wings Platinum has, and others such as Proshow Producer, Memories OnTV Pro and a few others have more control than PTE, but they are a long way from being really "good" at sound management (I use them and can verify this), but the vast "majority" of presentation slideshow software (not video editing software) actually have less versatility than PTE has now, which isn't much. Hopefully, we will have more control over sound in the next version but PTE shouldn't try to become a "sound editor" in my opinion. I believe that fade-in/fade-out, volume control, the ability to add sound at any point on any slide, along with a visual indication on the two tracks would be nice, but in my opinion the developers should resist trying to make this product into a sound editor.

Best regards,

Lin

[fh1805]

...the developers should resist trying to make this product into a sound editor...

Lin,

As you know, I agree with you 100%. All that is needed is the ability to do to "sound objects" those actions that have an equivalent for "image objects" i.e.:

• to place sound objects precisely on the timeline
  
• to stack sound objects one on top of another
  
• to apply "transitions" to sound objects (in the form of fade in and fade out)
  
• to reduce the opacity of sound objects (i.e to be able to set the volume level)
  

All the above are non-destructive to the sound file itself, just like all that we do with image files in PTE is non-destructive to the image file itself.

I would add a couple of others that don't have obvious equivalents in the image arena:

• to display the waveform of an individual sound object
  
• to display the waveform of the mix of all sound objects
  

regards,

Peter

[Photo99]

Yes we do need additions to PTE sound area badly.

Peters suggestions are the list of what is needed with just one small correction

•to place multiple sound objects precisely on the timeline

Lin is also correct in his statement but I would say "All the good diaporamas programs have some kind of sound management that is better than what PTE offers currently"

Igor has been promising this addition to PTE as far back as v5.1 or 5.2 and it still has not arrived. I hope his latest promise see----

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10405&view=&hl=sound&fromsearch=1

He Said

We're working on virtual editing of sound/music for next version(s). I hope it will appear soon. It's a high priority feature in our TODO list now.

will be honoured in the next release of PTE.

[8321]

Lin, Peter and others, I think you already know I support your requests.

Having been on the other side of the fence, however, developing commercial software in a past life, I know how users behave. "Wouldn't it be great to also be able to do a little EQ and normalisation, and what about just being able to do a little noise removal...". The wish list can very quickly get out of control, ending with the full-blown sound editor that Lin argued against or a lot of disappointed users.

Regards, Jeff

[fh1805]

...I know how users behave...The wish list can very quickly get out of control...

Jeff,

As an ex-IT Project Manager in my previous existence I'm thoroughly familiar with the problem of "scope creep" (as we used to call it). In my experience with PTE, Igor has always shown commendable sense in choosing which user requests to honour and which to defer to a later date. I think we can safely leave it to him to add just sufficient function to meet our needs.

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Sound manipulation is another fascinating facet to AV, once you start it's difficult to know where to stop. My latest epic has 28 music tracks 2 live recordings, a voice over and a number of sound effects. You might think this is at the high end of AV, it isn't, I've been using Audacity for just over 12 months and find it so simple to produce complex backings for my PTE shows. On the other hand I've been using PTE for over two years and have just got into multiple animated sequences, which I have struggled with understanding. IMHO PTE (Pictures To Exe) Pictures to Exe should stay as it is, once the sound gates are open the demands for ever more complex additions will flood in. My vote is to keep things as they are.

To illustrate my point, I have attached 2 screen sots of work in progress of my latest epic, which had to be reduced down to one track before adding the voice over to make it manageable on the screen.

Yachtsman1.

[fh1805]

...PTE (Pictures To Exe) Pictures to Exe should stay as it is..

Eric,

By implication, therefore, you would also advocate ripping out all the video output, too? After all those aren't EXE files, are they?

And since Pictures are things that you hang on the wall in frames, where's the point in being able to sequence them together with music? Why not just print off a couple of hundred or so, spread them out around the house and put some music on the hi-fi system? That would be just as good wouldn't it?

As I said in a recent post (and you corrected my emphasis, remember) Pictures-to-Exe is arguably the best A-V software. Some of us want it to become the best A-V software.

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Eric,

By implication, therefore, you would also advocate ripping out all the video output, too? After all those aren't EXE files, are they?

And since Pictures are things that you hang on the wall in frames, where's the point in being able to sequence them together with music? Why not just print off a couple of hundred or so, spread them out around the house and put some music on the hi-fi system? That would be just as good wouldn't it?

As I said in a recent post (and you corrected my emphasis, remember) Pictures-to-Exe is arguably the best A-V software. Some of us want it to become the best A-V software.

regards,

Peter

"Be kind; life's too short to be angry"

I think you better change you statement Peter, there are other opinions on here besides yours.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[saussol]

Hello all and best regards Peter, I am agree with Peter list, we do not need a big factory for PTE sound ! Very simple improvement, just like the others slides making softwares... For me ( may be only for me ) 3D improvement is not very necessary for slides making in regards of sound... we know that a lot of people are migrating from Proshow but they hesitate to go to PTE due to the poor sound system.

I have send a message this morning but I never see it on this forum ???

Best regars and thanks all to push this request !

Michel

[8321]

As an ex-IT Project Manager in my previous existence

From your picture, I guess you also worked with/for the BUNCH.

Jeff

[Guest Yachtsman1]

From your picture, I guess you also worked with/for the BUNCH.

Jeff

Explanation please, BUNCH?

Yachtsman1

[fh1805]

Jeff,

What BUNCH? I worked 27 years for British Steel and then 5 years for Cap Gemini and the folks I worked with and for were a great bunch! But I don't think that's what you mean.

regards,

Peter

[jfa]

Well Here We Go Again.

I thought this discussion had been done and dusted with the user poll conducted sometime ago here after many long discussions on this subject.

It gave a resounding 76% of users wanting Audio Adjustment facilities. (not sound editing there is a difference that some refuse to see), within PTE and 60% who definitely want it and wish it had exists for years! Igor responded by saying it would be in a near future upgrade and was a high priority feature.

Like it or not it is a commercial imperative that Audio Adjustment facilities be added to PTE.

Michels request is the latest in a long line of new/experenced users who find audio in PTE to be poorly handled.

My own experience is that PTE continues to lose customers because the current audio handling in PTE is basic and not intuitive.

We should be discussing how it can best be done and not rehashing old debates.

[CorVdK]

Hello to all,

I also agree that PTE needs sound improvements. During a long time it's a point of discussion. But why re-invent the wheel?

Many users of PTE also use Audacity. This free program has all we need to make a perfect soundmix, do some adjustments and even achieve perfect synchronization with PTE.

A few years now I use PTE with Audacity and achieve a perfect synchronization with the Label Tracks. It seems that nobody else use them. So far I did not see any comment about it on this forum.

I am not a programmer but it is maybe possible to link PTE with Audacity with some type of module to become a better use of the Label Tracks in Audacity.

So for those interested in the capabilities of Label Tracks, I adapted the chapter of the Audacity manual to show some explanations about the potential with PTE:

Link 1: PTE Audacity - Label Tracks Link 2: PTE Audacity - Label Tracks

Maybe this is for some a rather primitive method, but for the time being maybe usefull for some members to achieve a perfect synchronization with PTE and Audacity.

Just try,

Cor

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi CORVDK

Tried your link but got a message it had expired?

Yachtsman1

Nice to hear from someone who doesn't want to re-invent the wheel.

[CorVdK]

Hello yachtsman1,

Sorry for the problem with the link. I just made a new link, it must be working now.

Thanks for your interest.

Cor

[8321]

What BUNCH?

Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data Corporation and Honeywell. Must have been before your time or BS used IBM 360s.

Regards, Jeff

[fh1805]

A few years now I use PTE with Audacity and achieve a perfect synchronization with the Label Tracks. It seems that nobody else use them. So far I did not see any comment about it on this forum.

Cor,

Many thanks for bringing this to our attention. I had dabbled with Label Tracks as a means of annotating my soundtrack project files but hadn't realized this extra possibility.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if PTE offered the following two features:

• export the synchronization data to a file correctly formatted for import as a Label Track into Audacity
  
• import a file created by Audacity from a Label Track export and use this data to set the timings
  

One could then, almost seamlessly, rough build in one product and then take that info to the other product, do some fine tuning, bring it back again, do some more work in the other product, take it back once more, etc.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Here we go again - assuming that everyone knows what the H*** you are talking about.

Could someone please explain starting with:

A LABEL TRACK is.................

DG

[fh1805]

Dave,

Download the document that Cor has prepared and read it.

regards,

Peter

[JPD]

This is the translation of what I wrote on Diapositf about this subject :

Regarding the multi-track for the sound, it's simple in theory but complex in practice:

1st problem: defining the need (taking into account the competitive aspect)

Power mix multiple stereo channels without changing source files. For each checkpoint, can adjust the level.

Subsidiary questions:

1 - The value is the same or not for 2-channel

2 - Do we have the choice between linear and logarithmic law as progressivity / regressivity

3 - Number of tracks (I think commercially, it must be 4, competitor has 1 main track and 3 tracks associated with equivalent of views)

I reject the hypothesis we can save directly from microphone or others as some products do, what is not, in my view, the domain of a slideshow tool.

Similarly I reject all correction functions (noise, filters, equalizer, reverb etc., etc.)

Ergonomics: Should there be a specific window or attempt to insert the new functions in the current ergonomics. To get an idea, I made a small preview:

As we see, even with only one sound track (stereo) full scale, the square is counted, the work done on the issue of ergonomics is not an easy task.

If WnSoft works on the the problem, does it not reactivate old requests such as integration of 5. 1 home theater (or even 7. 1) replacing the actual stereo (to make creative sound effects say proponents of this solution, do not usefull will say the proponents of the Hi-Fi).

Another possible request, taking account of 24-bit mode because 16 bit is still far from the High Fidelity contrary to what the business try to make us believe (they say otherwise when they will do money by saying the contrary).

I'm here touched a few potential problems. It is my opinion to guide Igor realistic choices that do not transform PTE in gasworks.

Personally, I have only one requirement : it's that the source sound files are not modified, the settings for each track are saved in PTE and in the exe there is only a single sound file, like today, corresponding to mixing the source files according with the datas of mixing saved in PTE file.

[xahu34]

I would like to see audio tracks within PTE as shown in the attached picture. The starting positions of the clips and the forms of the envelopes should be programmable in PTE.

Regards,

Xaver

[CorVdK]

Cor,

Many thanks for bringing this to our attention. I had dabbled with Label Tracks as a means of annotating my soundtrack project files but hadn't realized this extra possibility.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if PTE offered the following two features:

• export the synchronization data to a file correctly formatted for import as a Label Track into Audacity
• import a file created by Audacity from a Label Track export and use this data to set the timings

One could then, almost seamlessly, rough build in one product and then take that info to the other product, do some fine tuning, bring it back again, do some more work in the other product, take it back once more, etc.

regards,

Peter

My pleasure Peter.

I totaly agree about your proposal.

Indeed, it would be fantastic if all the features of Audacity should be integrated in PTE. Because it's rather nice to do some editing directly, for instance, to the voice-over.

But let's see how far Igor will go.

Greetings,

Cor