Comentary plus background music

[geogeo]

I think I know the answer to this one (like ... no) but I'll ask it anyway in case I'm missing somethig.

Is It possible to have a background music file in the Project Options plus slide related comentaries in the Customise Slide settings AND not have the comentaries stopping the background music?

thanks

[fh1805]

If you get the right combination of settings and use the right technique the answer is "yes".

In Project Options...Main tab - select "Synchronize music and slides"

In Project Options...Music tab - add your continuous soundtrack and untick all three boxes

Select the slide on which you want to add commenatry via a separate file and click on the "Add sound" icon on the upper tool bar (over at the right hand side).

You will have no control over the relative volume levels of the soundtrack music and the voice-over commentary. If you want such control you need to use a sound editor program. A popular choice with forum members is Audacity - a freeware program that can be downloaded from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/. There is a User Guide to Audacity for AV workers available via a thread in the Tutorials section of the forum.

[geogeo]

Thanks Peter!

I had been trying to add the commentary via the 'Customise Slide' button, your technique works a treat.

Hopefully Igor will get round to adding sound level controls at some point. Anyway, Audacity no problem.

Geo

[Bernpenguin]

why not make the soundtrack in audition or some other program, it's more fun and then you will be making an av pen.

[fh1805]

Penguin,

I've got to agree with you about building the soundtrack outside PTE. I, for one, sincerely hope Igor does not try and add sound editing or sound mixing to PTE. It is my opinion that to edit my images I should use an image editor (e.g. Photoshop), to edit my sound files I should use a sound editor (e.g. Audacity) and to bring sound files and images together into an AV sequence I choose use the best - PTE.

[Adda]

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

I hope, Igor will some day implement function to record voice comments and fade background music automatically out and in.

It works fine in other programs (where the image quality is not as good as in PTE ;-) ).

Best regards

Adda

[Barry Beckham]

Adda

Ever heard the saying Jack of all trades, Master of none. Well, some of those other slide show programs fall fair and square into that saying.

No, I agree with FH, lets concentrate on the slide show quality and use a dedicated sound editor for our sound files

[Ken Cox]

I agree - leave pict to exe as a slide show program and just refine/complete the current path of enhancements it is on.

ken

[Ken Cox]

IMHO

when people want want want, it brings to mind this entry by Jeff Evans

see

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....ost&p=52659

and i dont believe Jeff's thoughts are too far off the mark

ken

[xahu34]

... lets concentrate on the slide show quality and use a dedicated sound editor for our sound files

Barry,

I think its not the question of having a fully featured audio editor, but its would be helpful to have several audio tracks on which you can shift audio sequences, and with a non-destructive envelope function for the volume.

Best regards,

Xaver

Munich

[jfa]

What I have requested in the past and am proposing now is not a Sound Editor built into PTE with all it’s functionality, but the addition of very basic audio file adjustments a few already exist in PTE but could be improved.

An example of these would be--

-The ability to simply fade in/out a track with user specified timing.

-Volume adjustment for the whole track or user specified part of the track.

-The ability to add more than one sound file to a track so they play consecutively and join seamlessly.

There are many ways of doing this in PTE, one would be to add a second audio track to the timeline and have the ability to manipulate the audio file waveform display just as we currently do with the images in the image track. Just some functions could be--

Adjust the transition timing on the audio file just as we do on the image, (that is fade in/out).

Add and remove audio files to a track, and position them very accurately with a drag and drop, (again just as we do with images).

This would have the added benefit of bringing all the audio functionally to the one area in PTE which would simplify the program for the user, not complicate it as some fear. We currently have the various audio adjustments spread throughout many different menus, fields and under different tabs which creates confusion for new users, (and some not so new), as can be witnessed by the repeated requests in the same audio areas on this forum and from my experience with users of PTE.

Igor has indicated that these functions are possible and he will introduce them soon, which along with some rationalisation of the existing audio functions would be a vast improvement to PTE, in fact I see this now as the area where a small addition of functions would give PTE a large improvement for new and current users alike, keep PTE up-to-date with the competition and maintain its place as the best AV software available today.

Remember the A in AV stands for Audio.

[JEB]

John,

For what it's worth I totally agree with you.

However, I strongly agree with Barry and Ken with regard to the status of PTE in respect to its visual quality and I certainly would not wish to see that compromised in any way whatsoever.

If Igor can implement these developments without compromising the existing and future development of the product on the visual side then I think it would be shortsighted not to do so.

Let's not forget that things move on, if that were not so then would we have had digital audio visual as we know it today?

I'm sure we can all think of examples of organizations and technologies that have ignored or failed to recognize the market that have disappeared from the scene.

I know from introducing people to PTE one of the irritations that comes up regularly is the limitation of the present audio facilities.

I personally use Audition rather than Audacity, only because I happen to have it and am more used to it.

In the early preparation stages of a complex show I find that I have to have the audio running separately on my laptop while PTE is running along side on my desktop. It would be so much better if I could more closely synchronize the two elements at the later stages within PTE. For complex and lengthy shows where I am mixing sound effects, voice over and music I would certainly see me continuing to use Audacity in the initial stages.

It's horses for courses I suppose.

Regards

John

[fh1805]

Thanks for the debate fellas!

I think I can begin to see a "best of both worlds" solution. We get a facility to bring in to PTE our individual sound track files and have, within PTE, the facility to slide them around along the timeline so that we get the positioning as we want it alongside the images and alongside one another. Then, have the facility non-destructively to add fade in/fade out and volume envelope to get a rough mix. And then be able to export the soundtracks to our preferred sound editor, preserving their time relationships to one another so that we can use the full, rich function of the sound editor to do the final post-processing.

Now, wouldn't that be great flexibility?

[xahu34]

Hi Peter,

In principle I agree, but I only have doubts that the export function will be feasible.

Best regards,

Xaver

Munich

[xahu34]

.. maintain its place as the best AV software available today.

Remember the A in AV stands for Audio.

Hi John,

I agree with most of what you said above. But I would like people to avoid the unreflected use of superlatives. PTE is very good (from am absolute point of view) and has an excellent price-performance ratio. That's enough.

Best regards,

Xaver

Munich

[Barry Beckham]

Xaver

I think these types of changes are great for us experts who know PTE backwards and a couple of new changes now and again don't over tax us much. Igor probably has to consider the wider implications of creating a software that while desirable could be over complicated for the new user.

I appreciate that it can also be argued in reverse that some sound editing may make the software more user friendly.

Now its coming to something, I arguing with myself, who needs a forum

[davegee]

Peter,

Your "best of both worlds" scenario is, indeed, a workable solution, but I don't see the need to export.

If the background music and the commentary are merged into one track, surely that then destroys the flexibilty of the system and any possiblity of tweaking slides along the timeline would, in some cases, be lost?

DaveG

[fh1805]

I was thinking in terms of overall file size for the finished exe.

Let's take a hypothetical example: I have a sequence that involves three sound files (all encoded as WAV format to preserve audio detail). The first is 2 minutes long, the second is 1 minute long and the third is 30 seconds long. The first and second run back to back, the third spans across the join.

The first is going to be about 20MB in size, the second about 10MB and the third about 5MB.

If they are not post-processed then all this data has to go into the exe file. If they are post-processed in a sound editor and "mixed" and exported as an mp3 format file, the resultant sound track file will be about 3MB in size (depending on the settings chosen for the mp3 conversion).

The original WAV files still exist. The original PTE project file still exists (if I remember to do a File...Save As... or a Create Backup in zip). I have all the detail I need to do any future re-work or enhancement and I have a nice compact finished exe file as well.

We all of us keep our full resolution images as well as our resized ones - dont we? I was thinking along similar lines for the sound files. Keep the full resolution ones (WAVs) as well as the resized one (the mp3).

[JEB]

Peter,

Am I picking this up wrong?

Surely you would only insert into PTE an mp3 version of your WAV in precisely the same way as you would insert an appropriate sized jpeg rather than the RAW or high resolution jpeg.

John (JEB)

[fh1805]

John (JEB),

There would be nothing wrong with inserting mp3 versions of the sound files into the "rough mix" within PTE. I was simply advocating the same sort of discipline on sound files as I adopt on my image files. That means holding off all forms of post-processing until as late as possible. I often do a rough sequence assembly using the "out of camera" JPEG files and "ripped from CD" WAV files in order to get a better feel for how it might work. Once I'm satisfied which images I am really likely to use, then I set about processing them through Photoshop. Similary, once I am more certain which parts of which pieces of music I'm likely to use, then I'll set about processing them through Audacity.

My proposal (see posts above) simply added some basic "rough mix" function into PTE. This would then allow an even better feel for how the end product might turn out prior to taking the image files into a specialist image editor and the sound files into a specialist sound editor before bringing those modified files back into PTE for final assembly.

For those who just want to add some nice background music to their images, they don't need much extra function. For those, like me, who frequently want to combine music, voice-over and even some sound effects into their soundtracks, some functional enrichment of PTE along the lines I suggested would, I believe, be a very welcome addition.

By the way, let me make it clear that there's nothing wrong in wanting only to add music to the images - many of my sequences are of that form.

[xahu34]

...Now its coming to something, I arguing with myself, who needs a forum

Barry,

I can't say that this forum is necessary for me to survive, but I could learn quite a lot, so far. In particular I found the link to your web site where I could catch a couple of good ideas - Sorry for not buying your CDs/DVDs .

Best regards,

Xaver

munich

[JEB]

Peter,

Got you.

I confess I often work in much the same way regarding images, using the off camera image initially.

Regards

John

P.S.

I hope something comes of this!!

[jfa]

I think I can begin to see a "best of both worlds" solution. We get a facility to bring in to PTE our individual sound track files and have, within PTE, the facility to slide them around along the timeline so that we get the positioning as we want it alongside the images and alongside one another. Then, have the facility non-destructively to add fade in/fade out and volume envelope to get a rough mix. And then be able to export the soundtracks to our preferred sound editor, preserving their time relationships to one another so that we can use the full, rich function of the sound editor to do the final post-processing.

Peter indeed you have it.

The audio editor would remain an important tool for those that wish to do more complex audio work just as photoshop is still the tool for most image manipulation.

My work-flow would be the opposite to yours where I would do the preparation of each audio file in my audio editor and then the timing and final mix in PTE using MP3s, this is just personal choice. The mix would be achieved with the creation of the EXE file just as now when there is a audio track attached to a slide and also audio on the whole project.

Of course for just a basic music track positioning and fade in/out would be quick and simply done in PTE alone, and again I agree with you there is nothing wrong with that.

I agree with most of what you said above. But I would like people to avoid the unreflected use of superlatives. PTE is very good (from am absolute point of view) and has an excellent price-performance ratio. That's enough.

Xaver I except you point.

[ferrolux]

John (JEB),

There would be nothing wrong with inserting mp3 versions of the sound files into the "rough mix" within PTE. I was simply advocating the same sort of discipline on sound files as I adopt on my image files. That means holding off all forms of post-processing until as late as possible. I often do a rough sequence assembly using the "out of camera" JPEG files and "ripped from CD" WAV files in order to get a better feel for how it might work. Once I'm satisfied which images I am really likely to use, then I set about processing them through Photoshop. Similary, once I am more certain which parts of which pieces of music I'm likely to use, then I'll set about processing them through Audacity.

My proposal (see posts above) simply added some basic "rough mix" function into PTE. This would then allow an even better feel for how the end product might turn out prior to taking the image files into a specialist image editor and the sound files into a specialist sound editor before bringing those modified files back into PTE for final assembly.

For those who just want to add some nice background music to their images, they don't need much extra function. For those, like me, who frequently want to combine music, voice-over and even some sound effects into their soundtracks, some functional enrichment of PTE along the lines I suggested would, I believe, be a very welcome addition.

By the way, let me make it clear that there's nothing wrong in wanting only to add music to the images - many of my sequences are of that form.

Hello,

I appreciate this discussion. Is it “aV” or “Av” or “AV”? It should be “AV”.

Until now I've concluded: Make your sound track in an sound editor an only synchronise on the time line in PTE. (PTE4 and SyP is gone). With agility and a fast PC it works fine and future versions will ameliorate it. Today I appreciate the high output quality of PTE. “Keep it sweet and simple” is a good statement for the user interface but I hope PTE goes also for an advanced “V”. Can the development give their long term vision on the "A" and the "V" ?

Best Regards.

[fh1805]

ferrolux,

You wrote:

...Is it “aV” or “Av” or “AV”? It should be “AV”...

You are absolutely right! It should be "AV". Both the images ("V") and the soundtrack ("A") have to work together to provide a pleasing whole. This means that any music used must match the mood of the images and any images used must match the mood and tempo of the music. I find that it often takes me ten times as long, or more, to find suitable music as it does to pick out the images and put them into the order that I want. Any commentary/voice-over/narration must also complement the images and the rest of the soundtrack. The words should add to the viewer's knowledge by giving information that is not obvious from the images alone or they should draw the viewer's attention to specific and important details in the images.

An AV sequence can be as simple as a well-matched set of images with complementing music or as complex as any documentary program produced by a television company.

But whatever kind of sequence it is, the most important part of all is that the person creating it gets a sense of achievement from doing it - and enjoys doing it!