360 rotation

[Laszlo K]

Hi All!

I have been trying to create a 360 rotation on vertical axis and having a great deal of difficulty.

The project is a flower that turns to show all sides or the observer goes around and shows all sides.

The first would have the background still the second would show the change of background.

I had tried all I know. I have 25 Jpeg images taken of all sides around of a flower, the same images removed from the background and converted to PNG

Still objects with zoom disconnected to create a quasi ( closing the image ) turn. --Not good Very choppy.

Attempted to stack the PNG images each with different start point and trajectory to create a continuation of motion.--After the third PNG imported as objejt all would turn or close together. ( Mother-Baby relation ). The main image was set from 30 second up to 60 second to have space for the others.

Any ideas?

I have a group that I have given this as homework and I got stuck with it myself. Hah.

Laszlo

[Lin Evans]

Hi Laszlo,

What you wish to do requires many more than 25 images. To turn the object (flower in this case) smoothly in a slow motion would require about 60 images per second of turn. So if you wanted to turn the object through 360 degrees in say 10 seconds, you would need about 600 images sequenced via the timeline at about .016 per image. This can be done with PTE by placing the about 600 images as separate objects each on its own layer then setting keyframes with a fade in and fade out via opacity for each.

The first object would begin with 100% opacity then at a keyframe about halfway from 0 to .016 (about 8 in the keyframe block) it would require another keyframe set also to 100% with zero opacity at .016. (16 in the keyframe). The next layer's object would begin at zero on the timeline with zero opacity then at a point halfway between zero (about 8 on keyframe) and .016 it would require a second keyframe set to zero then at .016 the opacity would be 100% then returned to zero at .024 (about 24 on the keyframe block). These numbers are a bit easier to deal with and will result in a frame rate of about 62.5 frames per second resulting in smooth movement. It's then very easy to get your numbers for PTE's keyframes by using Excel or other spreadsheet with a formula of incrementing one column by 16 and the adjacent by 8 for each subsequent cell. Then you can print off the sheet and use it to fill in the keyframe values for each layer.

You would then continue this complex sequence of killing the opacity on the previous slide and making the present slide 100% throughout each increment for the various slides of each layer for the 10 second period and once completed, you could copy and paste the slide multiple times to continue for additional 10 second rotation periods. Of course you could also just set the slide to "repeat".

This is a very time consuming job with PTE but the results can be very, very good. It's not something you will do without lots of four letter words and you will have to save frequently, quit PTE and reopen to avoid running out of memory. If you have problems, let me know and I'll create a template for you so you can rename your PNG slides accordingly, copy over my slides and have it rotate 360 degrees. To get your PNG files transparent for the background, the best way I've found is to shoot on a solid color background (black usually works) which is not a color found in your subject then create a Photoshop action to select by color and delete the background. Do this for each of the 611 images (600 to 611 works well) and you will end up with separate png objects with transparent backgrounds.

To create your slides you will need either to take about 611 frames each at .6 degree increments on a turntable or, better yet, use a 60 frame per second video camera or digital camera to shoot an object rotating. Let me know the speed of rotation you need such as one rotation every 10 seconds, etc., so the template will be correct.

You might wonder, why not just put each frame in a separate slide and sequence each slide for a time of .016? The reason is that PTE can only reliably sequence individual frames of subsequent slides at a speed of about 75 to 150 ms without dropping frames. The reasons are technical, and the old 4.x version of PTE "can" sequence slides as fast as 10ms reliably, but when you add the ability to create 60 slides + per second using the GPU (graphical processing unit - video card) for PZR effects, then you have a totally different issue where the per slide display time can't be faster than about 150ms reliably without dropping frames. Because of this, the way I've described is the "only" way I've been able to get smooth motion on this type of sequenced frame rotation. PTE "can" do it as objects on layers but not as individual slides because of the PZR issues.

The "easiest" way to get the 600 images would be to use a good digital camera or high end video to create a "video" then use a decompiler to separate frames and output to PNG format, etc. If photograph it on a black background then you can use Photoshop to delete the background from each image and save as a transparent PNG. You can then manipulate the background via slide set to display for the duration of the show. Using a solid color background you won't need to worry about the perceptual differences in background appearance.

I realize this is a complex process and probably not worth the effort. I have done it on several occasions to make the "earth" spin in some of my demos. If you want to see what it looks like, go to my site (linked below) and download my 3D.zip show. Near the end of the show I have the Earth spinning through 360 degrees with the moon orbiting the Earth. This is the way it was achieved. The show is about a 35 meg zipped executable.

http://www.learntomakeslideshows.net/demos/3d.zip

Best regards,

Lin

[Laszlo K]

Hi Laszlo,

What you wish to do requires many more than 25 images. To turn the object (flower in this case) smoothly in a slow motion would require about 60 images per second of turn. So if you wanted to turn the object through 360 degrees in say 10 seconds, you would need about 600 images sequenced via the timeline at about .016 per image. This can be done with PTE by placing the about 600 images as separate objects each on its own layer then setting keyframes with a fade in and fade out via opacity for each.

The first object would begin with 100% opacity then at a keyframe about halfway from 0 to .016 (about 8 in the keyframe block) it would require another keyframe set also to 100% with zero opacity at .016. (16 in the keyframe). The next layer's object would begin at zero on the timeline with zero opacity then at a point halfway between zero (about 8 on keyframe) and .016 it would require a second keyframe set to zero then at .016 the opacity would be 100% then returned to zero at .024 (about 24 on the keyframe block). These numbers are a bit easier to deal with and will result in a frame rate of about 62.5 frames per second resulting in smooth movement. It's then very easy to get your numbers for PTE's keyframes by using Excel or other spreadsheet with a formula of incrementing one column by 16 and the adjacent by 8 for each subsequent cell. Then you can print off the sheet and use it to fill in the keyframe values for each layer.

You would then continue this complex sequence of killing the opacity on the previous slide and making the present slide 100% throughout each increment for the various slides of each layer for the 10 second period and once completed, you could copy and paste the slide multiple times to continue for additional 10 second rotation periods. Of course you could also just set the slide to "repeat".

This is a very time consuming job with PTE but the results can be very, very good. It's not something you will do without lots of four letter words and you will have to save frequently, quit PTE and reopen to avoid running out of memory. If you have problems, let me know and I'll create a template for you so you can rename your PNG slides accordingly, copy over my slides and have it rotate 360 degrees. To get your PNG files transparent for the background, the best way I've found is to shoot on a solid color background (black usually works) which is not a color found in your subject then create a Photoshop action to select by color and delete the background. Do this for each of the 611 images (600 to 611 works well) and you will end up with separate png objects with transparent backgrounds.

To create your slides you will need either to take about 611 frames each at .6 degree increments on a turntable or, better yet, use a 60 frame per second video camera or digital camera to shoot an object rotating. Let me know the speed of rotation you need such as one rotation every 10 seconds, etc., so the template will be correct.

You might wonder, why not just put each frame in a separate slide and sequence each slide for a time of .016? The reason is that PTE can only reliably sequence individual frames of subsequent slides at a speed of about 75 to 150 ms without dropping frames. The reasons are technical, and the old 4.x version of PTE "can" sequence slides as fast as 10ms reliably, but when you add the ability to create 60 slides + per second using the GPU (graphical processing unit - video card) for PZR effects, then you have a totally different issue where the per slide display time can't be faster than about 150ms reliably without dropping frames. Because of this, the way I've described is the "only" way I've been able to get smooth motion on this type of sequenced frame rotation. PTE "can" do it as objects on layers but not as individual slides because of the PZR issues.

The "easiest" way to get the 600 images would be to use a good digital camera or high end video to create a "video" then use a decompiler to separate frames and output to PNG format, etc. If photograph it on a black background then you can use Photoshop to delete the background from each image and save as a transparent PNG. You can then manipulate the background via slide set to display for the duration of the show. Using a solid color background you won't need to worry about the perceptual differences in background appearance.

I realize this is a complex process and probably not worth the effort. I have done it on several occasions to make the "earth" spin in some of my demos. If you want to see what it looks like, go to my site (linked below) and download my 3D.zip show. Near the end of the show I have the Earth spinning through 360 degrees with the moon orbiting the Earth. This is the way it was achieved. The show is about a 35 meg zipped executable.

http://www.learntomakeslideshows.net/demos/3d.zip

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin!

Thanks a lot for the great explanation.

What I have done before reading your note ( shooting in the dark ) is that I ended taking about 40 images eround a wilted tulip with a black card as background to make it easier to separate them both.

Having 40 PNG images and not being able to daisy-chain them within an about 10 second space, I started with each image as a separate image ( PTE has automaticaly had a black background and I only had to align the objects on the grid)

I than used the 3D rotation from the special effects page, cut down the time to 400 ms on each image 200ms special effects and the combination of opacity variation. Like this each imege makes a fraction of a turn than the other takes over. It runs about 11 seconds.

The rotation I got is kind of jirky but it makes a point. I'm interested to see how my group will do. The stuff is due on Monday.

I will try -to a point- your angle. I have a 3CCD Panasonic video camera with a great Zeiss lens that I can use. And thanks for the offer of the calculations but first I have to get the images done, prepare them and than....

Your space movements are great and the rotation as well. I will show my people the EXE if you don't mind.

It is great to get to know you and people on this forum.

It is difficult to find people who are willing to go out of their way to help others especially at this level of complexity.

Thanks again

Laszlo

PS: This was the final product that you have helped me with the swords:

http://rapidshare.com/files/244238948/The_...ject_5.exe.html

[Ken Cox]

Hi Laszlo,

pretty "heavy/deep" production - not much jerkiness on my system - just one really noticeable - the red cross flip in the arch

ken

[Laszlo K]

Hi Laszlo,

pretty "heavy/deep" production - not much jerkiness on my system - just one really noticeable - the red cross flip in the arch

ken

Hi Ken!

This was not the project with the jerkiness, This was done because of the fight of the swords, and it has taken a few exchanges with Lin to solve the transparency of the PNG files. ( I was trying to use them as mask and not as an object, so it was not working well).

On the other hand I wonder why you had the hick up. It plays well even on my laptop? I do understand that multiple movements create multiple stress.

Well we might at point figure things out, but than we create new problems.

I'm glad the project worked since it made an impression for a statement. That is what it was suppose to do. This was a homework for my group and I do it as well.

Laszlo

[Conflow]

Hi Laslzo,

Here is a different approach to your problem. Would you consider 'jumping-out' of the Pte Program then running a small external Exe

and then returning to the Pte Program ??

If so, here below are some "attachments" about a program called "W-Panorama" which I have used for some time. Its small, 3.0mB,

its controlable and offers various frame-rates in creating a 360*-Panorama of your "Rose" object ~ because essentially thats what

you are trying to achieve. I forgot to mention that it runs in "Full-Screen" and other sizes and contains 'examples' and has a very good

Help-File.

Attachemts and Web-Link in my Image titled Pan-3.

Hope it helps...

Brian (Conflow)

[Lin Evans]

Hi Laszlo,

Yes, the sword's look fine now and the show runs great on my system.

Of course, you may show the 3D slideshow. If you want to quickly step to the rotating Earth with orbiting moon, just use the right arrow key to advance through the various slides quickly.

I'm working now on a rotation template which I will post along with a short demo show to show how it could be used.

The difficulty, for anyone embarking on such a project, is to create the multiple images (I used about 640 for the template) needed for the smooth rotation. Typically, a video of a rotating subject would be decompiled into individual jpg's or png files (I will use PNG's for the template). These then would need to be each pasted on transparent backgrounds and have the appropriate portions of the image erased to make transparent background "floating" pngs. This is a formidable task in and of itself. Right now I'm doing copy and paste individually on 640 png files then I will create a Photoshop action to select, inverse then delete (erase) the backgrounds so I will have 640 "floating" png objects for the template. These are, in this case, pictures of Earth each with a slightly different rotation. The user of the template may use these images or replace them with their own each named "image001.png, image002.png... etc.," so that whatever object files they create will rotate.

The advantage of doing it by object rather than by individual sequenced slides is very obvious when you think about it. As individual slides, we have essentially duplicated a video but we have almost no control over things. To dynamically change size or position, etc., during the show, we would need to manipulate each and every slide independently. This would be almost an imposible task. By using the independent slides as objects, however, we can assign them all as "children" of a frame or rectangle, then manipulate them collectively. This allows some very unique and impressive results which simply can't be done by inserting a video unless that "particular" video had exactly the effects we want to produce. I think this will become apparent in my demo.

Of course creating the template takes hours and hours of work - even days of work. Because with this many objects, memory becomes a major concern. Just getting the objects into the proper order takes many hours of work because only about 20 objects can be manipulated before running out of RAM. This means move 20 objects into proper order, save, exit PTE, reopen and repeat the process until all 640 objects have been properly ordered. Then there is the three keyframes per object (1920 keyframes) which also can only be placed about 20 in one open session of PTE. So place 20 keyframes, save, quit, re-open PTE and continue.

This is why having the template is quite valuable for someone who wants to do such a process. Perhaps only a few people are really interested in doing such a thing, but the challenge is interesting for me so others may choose to use my template or not - it will be freely offered for anyone wanting to experiment with this process.

Hopefully, by the end of the day I will have it and a demo available. If not, then tomorrow.

Best regards,

Lin

[Laszlo K]

Hi Laszlo,

Yes, the sword's look fine now and the show runs great on my system.

Of course, you may show the 3D slideshow. If you want to quickly step to the rotating Earth with orbiting moon, just use the right arrow key to advance through the various slides quickly.

I'm working now on a rotation template which I will post along with a short demo show to show how it could be used.

The difficulty, for anyone embarking on such a project, is to create the multiple images (I used about 640 for the template) needed for the smooth rotation. Typically, a video of a rotating subject would be decompiled into individual jpg's or png files (I will use PNG's for the template). These then would need to be each pasted on transparent backgrounds and have the appropriate portions of the image erased to make transparent background "floating" pngs. This is a formidable task in and of itself. Right now I'm doing copy and paste individually on 640 png files then I will create a Photoshop action to select, inverse then delete (erase) the backgrounds so I will have 640 "floating" png objects for the template. These are, in this case, pictures of Earth each with a slightly different rotation. The user of the template may use these images or replace them with their own each named "image001.png, image002.png... etc.," so that whatever object files they create will rotate.

The advantage of doing it by object rather than by individual sequenced slides is very obvious when you think about it. As individual slides, we have essentially duplicated a video but we have almost no control over things. To dynamically change size or position, etc., during the show, we would need to manipulate each and every slide independently. This would be almost an imposible task. By using the independent slides as objects, however, we can assign them all as "children" of a frame or rectangle, then manipulate them collectively. This allows some very unique and impressive results which simply can't be done by inserting a video unless that "particular" video had exactly the effects we want to produce. I think this will become apparent in my demo.

Of course creating the template takes hours and hours of work - even days of work. Because with this many objects, memory becomes a major concern. Just getting the objects into the proper order takes many hours of work because only about 20 objects can be manipulated before running out of RAM. This means move 20 objects into proper order, save, exit PTE, reopen and repeat the process until all 640 objects have been properly ordered. Then there is the three keyframes per object (1920 keyframe) which also can only be placed about 20 in one open session of PTE. So place 20 keyframes, save, quit, re-open PTE and continue.

This is why having the template is quite valuable for someone who wants to do such a process. Perhaps only a few people are really interested in doing such a thing, but the challenge is interesting for me so others may choose to use my template or not - it will be freely offered for anyone wanting to experiment with this process.

Hopefully, by the end of the day I will have it and a demo available. If not, then tomorrow.

Best regards,

Lin

This is GREAT Lin.

I love to get myself dirty with complex things that most people runs away from.

I will definitely try your approach. The template can be of a great help.

PTE has lots of potential that most people have no idea about, just you have to push it a bit untill it gets out of the box ( like 360 rotation for example ), using pans and zooms in odd ways etc.

Regards

Laszlo

[Laszlo K]

Hi Laslzo,

Here is a different approach to your problem. Would you consider 'jumping-out' of the Pte Program then running a small external Exe

and then returning to the Pte Program ??

If so, here below are some "attachments" about a program called "W-Panorama" which I have used for some time. Its small, 3.0mB,

its controlable and offers various frame-rates in creating a 360*-Panorama of your "Rose" object ~ because essentially thats what

you are trying to achieve. I forgot to mention that it runs in "Full-Screen" and other sizes and contains 'examples' and has a very good

Help-File.

Attachemts and Web-Link in my Image titled Pan-3.

Hope it helps...

Brian (Conflow)

Hi Brian!

The only thing that I see in your note is the 3 thumbnails. No attachements, or I'm looking at the wrong place.

Your approach is interesting and I will check out the program. Can you import its final product into PTE? That is what is in your first two lines?

That would make things very interesting..

Laszlo

[Ken Cox]

double click the thumbs to expand them and you will see the info

ken

[Laszlo K]

double click the thumbs to expand them and you will see the info

ken

I got it thanks. I thought there was supposed to be something else.

The page needed to be refreshed.

Laszlo

[Conflow]

Laszlo,

The Thumbnails/Images are the "attachments" to my Post as Ken has shown.

You will find the Web Address for the Program in my Image "Pan-3".

All you need is an (electric) 'Rotorary Demonstration Plinth' as used in Shop-Window displays.

You can set the rotation speed of these and use a black background behind the rotating plinth.

Now set your Camera to Multi-Shot and run off a series of shots.

You can 'stitch' these shots together and then use the W-Panorama program to create the rotary effect.

You may need an 'Image-Stitcher' ~ you can get that from www.webattack, see link below.

You asked...."Can you import its final product into PTE? is that what's is in your first two lines ? ...

In answer...No you can't directly import it into the Pte Slideshow as an intergrated part of the Slideshow.

You can make Pte run that 'Panorama' as a seperate Exe -and when its done- Pte continues with the Show.

(W-Panoramma is 'Freeware' and other Webattack utilities usually have a 30 day Free Trial).

Link:- http://www.webattack.com

and a particular cheap 'stitcher' Link:- http://www.snapfiles.com/reviews/zoner-pan...erpanorama.html

Hope this is what you wanted.

Brian (Conflow)

[Lin Evans]

Hi Laszlo,

Well, it's "almost" still today! I missed it by 42 minutes, but the template and demo are finished.

You will find the links here:

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....showtopic=10095

Best regards,

Lin

[Laszlo K]

Hi Laszlo,

Well, it's "almost" still today! I missed it by 42 minutes, but the template and demo are finished.

You will find the links here:

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....showtopic=10095

Best regards,

Lin

Thanks a lot Lin!

I will see how can I put things in proper order with you detailed explanation ( and a few four letter words as you said ). Of course it will take a number of approach before all falls in place.

I will let you posted.

Regards

Laszlo