Audio Adjustments facilities within PTE ?

[thedom]

Bill started a topic to ask if PTE can fade music at the end of a show : http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....showtopic=10377

Here is what Igor wrote two months ago (thanks to Xaver for finding the original post) :

We've re-worked code of audio engine and will include this change to future v5.8 the most likely together with simple management of audio tracks. At least it is in my TODO list.

So, we don't know exactly what Igor have in mind about this simple management of audio tracks and when he would release it.

But it seems members disagree about the usefulness of this feature that has been discussed already a lot of time in the past.

I think it would be interesting to know the tendency for the users of the forum.

So please vote.

Thanks.

[nobeefstu]

Dom, thanks for making a Poll of this hot topic to collect some user insight.

I think users interested in this this feature ought to read closely at Igor's wisely chosen words of its description.

"simple management of audio tracks"

Audio Editing is not proposed here. Managing the audio behaviour is not the same as editing a audio file. Now is simple management enough to suffice most users basic audio needs ?

[Lin Evans]

Though there will never be enough audio features to satisfy all (many are not currently satisfied with Proshow Producers' audio capabilities and want surround sound, etc.), Simple controls like keyframed fade-in, fade-out, cross-fade, start sound from any point and end at any point and adjust volume independently of individual slide audio, etc., would be probably be sufficient for the majority of PTE users. Though PTE should never try to become an audio editor any more than it should become a video or still frame "editor," these elementary features will prevent having to make so many modifications and saves to an audio track that they are hard to keep up with when used for different shows.

I believe that the above are things well within the possibility of future versions of PTE and will, along with video clip control, make PTE "the" premier tool for the masses in both PC and MacIntosh worlds.

Best regards,

Lin

Dom, thanks for making a Poll of this hot topic to collect some user insight.

I think users interested in this this feature ought to read closely at Igor's wisely chosen words of its description.

"simple management of audio tracks"

Audio Editing is not proposed here. Managing the audio behaviour is not the same as editing a audio file. Now is simple management enough to suffice most users basic audio needs ?

[thedom]

Actually, you're right nobeefstu, I missed the subtle difference.

Thank you for pointing this out.

[mhwarner]

... Simple controls like keyframed fade-in, fade-out, cross-fade, start sound from any point and end at any point and adjust volume independently of individual slide audio, etc., would be probably be sufficient for the majority of PTE users.

Lin, I hope what you've described is in the realm of "simple management of audio tracks" within PTE. While I agree that stopping there might not satisfy the most technical among us, it would make me happy and probably a good percentage of those creating all but the most sophisticated presentations.

[xahu34]

Hi all,

My vote for "Yes", in the sense of nobeefstu's post, see also here.

Regards,

Xaver

[jfa]

....<snip>..Simple controls like keyframed fade-in, fade-out, cross-fade, start sound from any point and end at any point and adjust volume independently of individual slide audio, etc., would be probably be sufficient for the majority of PTE users. Though PTE should never try to become an audio editor any more than it should become a video or still frame "editor," these elementary features will prevent having to make so many modifications and saves to an audio track that they are hard to keep up with when used for different shows.

I believe that the above are things well within the possibility of future versions of PTE and will, along with video clip control, make PTE "the" premier tool for the masses in both PC and MacIntosh worlds.

Lin

You have it in a nut-shell. These controls would be sufficient to meet most new/experienced users needs, mine included and I vote for it as the top priority for future PTE development.

Dom

Thanks for the long overdue poll.

The term "Sound Editing" is misleading and is not what most want to see in PTE we are talking about "Audio Adjustments" just as we have Image Adjustments in PTE.

Could you correct the question please.

Added Later--

Image Editing is done in Image Editors.

Sound Editing is done in Sound Editors.

Image and sound placement and adjustments should be done in PTE when building the AV.

[Henri.R]

Hi John,

I think the correct term for what most members asking for is 'synchronizing'

regards,

Henri.

[Lin Evans]

Hi Henri,

Yes, synchronization is important, but also volume and fades at specific places on a slide. For example, some AV creations have background music which continues when there may be voice-overs on a slide, but the volume must be diminished on the background so as not to "fight" or "conflict" with the voice-over. Then there are times when the creator of the show may want to fade the sound other than just at the end of the show.

Of course it's possible to do all this in a sound editor, but vastly easier to do it interactively when creating the show. So in essence, both synchronization and volume/fade control are important to the AV creation, don't you think?

Best regards,

Lin

Hi John,

I think the correct term for what most members asking for is 'synchronizing'

regards,

Henri.

[dadou]

Hi Henri,

Yes, synchronization is important, but also volume and fades at specific places on a slide. For example, some AV creations have background music which continues when there may be voice-overs on a slide, but the volume must be diminished on the background so as not to "fight" or "conflict" with the voice-over. Then there are times when the creator of the show may want to fade the sound other than just at the end of the show.

Of course it's possible to do all this in a sound editor, but vastly easier to do it interactively when creating the show. So in essence, both synchronization and volume/fade control are important to the AV creation, don't you think?

Best regards,

Lin

Lin , I think you say correctly the idea of the majority of users !

But I think that the manner to do the question ( Not at all, I'm afraid it will be too complicated to use ) is a little oriented to a negative opinion for the ones who choose the last option ....It sounds as a referendum answer of the 1960 !

[fh1805]

I have stated my views on this subject many times in the past - I'm in favour of it!

And for those who seem to want to vote against this proposed new function I would say this: you don't have to use any of PTE's functions if you don't want to.

You don't have to use animation - but it is there for those who do want to use it. (I do use it - occasionally)

You don't have to use masks - but the feature is there if you want to use it. (I don't use it - and can see no use for it in my usual style of AV)

You don't have to export to HD Video, Youtube, Vimeo, etc. - but you can if you want to. (I have no interest whatsoever in placing my sequences online as streaming video)

Those of you who are happy to do all your sound preparation outside of PTE will be able to continue to do so. Let's face it, we will still need to "import" our sound files into PTE whatever the manipulation features might be. If "import" of a complete soundtrack is all you want to do, you will still have that facility (although possibly via a different user interface).

PTE must continue to develop as a feature-rich piece of software if it is to continue to expand its client base. We should all be grateful that Igor listens to his clients and tries to incorporate as many of our suggestions as he feels are appropriate. If only Bill Gates did the same....

regards,

Peter

[JEB]

Hi,

I have added my vote as a “Definite YES”.

I think it has summed it up very well by a number of people.

I for one have struggled along using Audacity on one PC and PTE on the other while trying to get a rough synchronization prior to loading into PTE to make the final adjustments. I have made a couple of long documentary type shows recently (30 minutes) which have required considerable synchronization between voice-over, music, sound effects and images, anything that would make that a simpler process would be most welcome.

The way I look at is that I use Photoshop to prepare my images and I would be more than happy to continue to use Audacity to prepare my audio but I would love PTE to do to my audio what it presently does to my images only the trick will be to merge the two activities satisfactorily.

Thanks for giving us the opportunity of expressing our opinions. I have absolutely no doubt that they will be listened to and acted upon by Igor.

Regards

John

[thedom]

Dom

The term "Sound Editing" is misleading and is not what most want to see in PTE we are talking about "Audio Adjustments" just as we have Image Adjustments in PTE.

Could you correct the question please.

John, I think you're correct.

=> Question modified.

But I think that the manner to do the question ( Not at all, I'm afraid it will be too complicated to use ) is a little oriented to a negative opinion for the ones who choose the last option

Dadou, I realize you're right, thanks for pointing this out.

=> Answer #4 modified to a neutral opinion.

Next time, I will ask for help BEFORE creating a poll because John's and Dadou's comments proove how much important the words and the expression choosen are important.

Sorry guys.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

This is an abysmal way to get opinion. There are almost 6000 registered forum users, currently 16 are in favour.

Jeb, why do you need 2 PC's, run your show in one window & Audacity in another window & switch between them?

Yachtsman1.

[fh1805]

Yachtsman1,

If this is an abysmal way of getting an opinion, don't just gripe about it, propose a better way!

On a forum such as this the only logistically simple way of gathering an opinion on a specific topic is to run a poll using the "Poll" feature of the forum software.

And as for the question as to "how representative" will it be of the real ground swell of opinon, which is implied by your comment about the number of registered users: I would guess that, except when PTE is in a beta programme, there are perhaps 100 or so regular contributors to this forum. They are the ones who make regular use of the product, who know the product inside out, who are willing to help others make good use of the product, and who can see what extra features would make the product even better - better, not necessarily for themselves but better for others.

I will certainly continue to use Audacity to do my sound Editing but I will equally certainly give any new sound file management feature a good trial. I can envisage that I might want to do a trial build of a soundtrack within PTE to get the timings as I want them and then re-build in Audacity adding features that only Audacity can give me: e.g. Changing Tempo to get a precise duration, changing the pitch of a piece of voice over to make it stand out better against the background music.

Just because you seem not to want any sound management within PTE doesn't mean that others shouldn't have that chance.

regards,

Peter

[xahu34]

This is an abysmal way to get opinion. There are almost 6000 registered forum users, currently 16 are in favour...

This is not question of counting beans. In the end, it will not make a great difference if the supporters of audio adjustment functions will constitute the majority or not. In any case, the discussion shows that there is a need for this functionality. In the German speaking area, photo clubs and AV-groups typically use m.objects or Wings Platinum, both highly priced. But I can assure you that it is hopeless to offer a cheaper alternative if the audio part is so minimalistic as in PTE.

Regards,

Xaver

[JEB]

Yachtsman1,

Simply because I find it less confusing.

I want to see the wave forms (music, voice-over, sound effect) and hear the audio, while also watching the slides and have the ability to make adjustments to all.

Each to his own.

John

[Henri.R]

Hi Henri,

Yes, synchronization is important, but also volume and fades at specific places on a slide. For example, some AV creations have background music which continues when there may be voice-overs on a slide, but the volume must be diminished on the background so as not to "fight" or "conflict" with the voice-over. Then there are times when the creator of the show may want to fade the sound other than just at the end of the show.

Of course it's possible to do all this in a sound editor, but vastly easier to do it interactively when creating the show. So in essence, both synchronization and volume/fade control are important to the AV creation, don't you think?

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin,

How right you are!

Of course there is a lot of interacting between image and sound. For me personally it's even more complicated because I normally work with Apple Macintosh... PtE is the only Win-app I use since the picture quality is so marvellous! My sound editing is done in Logic Pro and after that I import the complete soundtrack into PtE. After that I have to do all the things you describe dictated by the soundtrack...

In my opinion only a full interaction between image- and soundtracks at the same moment can do justice to your creative feelings!

And Xaver,

As we are neighbourcountries I think the situation here is the same, but I don't think it is hopeless; if only the users of competing apps have seen the image quality of PtE (and that's what you see in the dark, the projectionscreen)!!

Just the reason why we are using PtE now and not one of the applications you named anymore?

In the meantime I'm very grateful of course that Igor and staff is working on a Mac version since that takes time and energy too...

And thanks to thedom for starting this poll.

regards,

Henri.

[Antbrewer]

This subject alwas opens up a large can of worms. Isn't that the beauty of a forum? In this case even straying into 'latin' !!!

I would consider myself an average + user of PtE. I have a reasonable understanding and command of most of the many and increasing functions but like Peter and some others for my use and style of AVs I do not need many of them.

However the facility for audio adjustment (not editing) within PtE seems to me a logical addition. As has been said by many we will have a similar control over the audio imput as we do over the image input in the program.

There is one facility which I feel would be very useful if possble. That is a short cut to the editing program, in the way we use Ctrl and W to take a selected image into Photoshop etc . If one could highlight the track required in the Music options box ...( or even on the wave form ) hit the short cut keys and be taken straight into 'Audacity' etc .

Is someone out there going to tell me now that this is already a function?

Anyway there is no doubt that Igor and his merry men have their work cut out to continue to produce one of the smoothest software programs available.

Anthony

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Yachtsman1,

If this is an abysmal way of getting an opinion, don't just gripe about it, propose a better way!

On a forum such as this the only logistically simple way of gathering an opinion on a specific topic is to run a poll using the "Poll" feature of the forum software.

And as for the question as to "how representative" will it be of the real ground swell of opinon, which is implied by your comment about the number of registered users: I would guess that, except when PTE is in a beta programme, there are perhaps 100 or so regular contributors to this forum. They are the ones who make regular use of the product, who know the product inside out, who are willing to help others make good use of the product, and who can see what extra features would make the product even better - better, not necessarily for themselves but better for others.

I will certainly continue to use Audacity to do my sound Editing but I will equally certainly give any new sound file management feature a good trial. I can envisage that I might want to do a trial build of a soundtrack within PTE to get the timings as I want them and then re-build in Audacity adding features that only Audacity can give me: e.g. Changing Tempo to get a precise duration, changing the pitch of a piece of voice over to make it stand out better against the background music.

Just because you seem not to want any sound management within PTE doesn't mean that others shouldn't have that chance.

regards,

Peter

I would have thought that you would know how to get a factual poll????

All Igor has to do is to send out a block email to all members & report the results, simple enough eh

Yachtsman1

[xahu34]

... All Igor has to do is to send out a block email to all members & report the results, simple enough ...

Isn't it the poll of user thedom? For Igor everything might be clear, who knows?

Regards,

Xaver

[Conflow]

Dom,

Well I have just Posted a 'simple' Mp3 Audio-Trimmer which works well for me ~ I only wish it had been available

in Pte long,long ago. Link: http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....ost&p=67574

I am not talking about a 'Full Audio-Editor' just a simple utility to 'cut-down' an Mp3 Track to match the Slide-Times

without the complication of opening Audacity or Audion which for 'New Pte Users' looks like a nightmare.

Auditor-Editor Utilities are very well and fine if you need to do a complex editing job vis-a-vis a long Slideshow with

styalized effects and PZR etc,etc ~ I use those utilities myself.

But for Pte.Users & Photographers who wish to show their 'Holiday or Wedding Photos' (on the fly) to friends with

a 3/5 minute Sound-Trak which has to end when the Show ends ~ then there are serious problems !!

Nobody has the time (nor patience) to open an Audio-Editor (on the fly) and spend hours trimming a Sound-Trak to suit

the Pte-Slides Timeline so that the Slides+Effects show for 5/6 sec.each accompanied to a fixed duration Sound Trak.

Better off to calculate your chosen Slides+Effects duration and then "trim" a Sound-Trak to suit that.

"Mp3-Trimmer" does that. What could be simpler ??

Brian (Conflow)

P.S

At the time of Posting this I note the response to your Submissions:- Generally in favour: 71% and 29% against.

[xahu34]

..."Mp3-Trimmer" does that. What could be simpler ??...

Brian,

The subject of this thread is not just trimming, it is audio adjustment!

By the way, trimming in Audacity or Goldwave is a matter of a few seconds. But keep in mind: Finishing a show with a trimmed piece of music really is an awful solution

Regards,

Xaver

[Conflow]

Brian,

The subject of this thread is not just trimming, it is audio adjustment!

By the way, trimming in Audacity or Goldwave is a matter of a few seconds. But keep in mind:Finishing a show with a trimmed peace of music really is an awful solution

Regards,

Xaver

Well Xaver,

We all have our own opinions about that ~ I see no difference when a Film Soundtrack ends with the Credits ~ so whats so

special about a PTE.Slideshow? ~ like any Film its still an Audio/Visual presentation.

While we are on the subject may I remind you that this is no place for 'personal comments' about other peoples Posts.

It is a survey page being conducted by "Dom" and all remarks should be addresed to him as the Moderator of this Survey.

Brian.

[Barry Beckham]

What really is the point of polling a forum full of enthusiasts? Won't the result just tell us what we already know. That you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Every one of us could have predicted the sort of responses we have seen.

PTE is a commercial product, it is hardly going to be supported financially by any of us who already have it. Its the newer user and the user who hasn't even heard of PTE yet, that I am sure Igor has in mind.

Igor has created some software that seems to lead the field, his decisions up to now seem to be pretty sound and they have kept PTE at the top, so I am sure he will make the upgrade choices he thinks are right at the time.