Menu Sequences using PTE

[fh1805]

As there has been quite a bit of discussion on this subject already this year I thought it worthwhile producing this topic, which is of necessity a long one. This post documents my recent experiences building menu sequences using Pictures-To-Exe. By “menu sequence” I mean a sequence which launches another sequence by clicking on an object (in my case, a thumbnail image) that has an action coded to “Run application or open file…”.

My own previous experiences had indicated that there was a problem when running menu sequences on Windows Vista operating system that used “Run application…” to launch the next sequence. The problem appeared as “flashbacks” to the Windows desktop between the menu and the launched sequenced and upon return from the launched sequence to the menu. The problem was well-documented in posts on this forum some 3-4 years ago. WnSoft provided a solution by introducing the “Run Slideshow…” feature. This solution works excellently in a PTE-only environment.

However, further investigation was now required because later this year our local A-V Group will be holding its first public A-V Festival. And as the members of the group use both PTE and ProShow, the “Run Slideshow…” solution would not be useable for all the sequences. I therefore set about trialling different options to find the solution that gave the best results when using “Run application…”.

The initial investigation was done on my desktop PC running Windows Vista Home Premium Edition at Service Pack2. I set up a menu system to launch three different PTE sequences using the “Run application or open file…” option. The three target sequences were: 1x PTE v5.5, 1x PTE v5.6 and 1x PTE v6.0. The menu was built first of all with PTE v4.49. Then that file was opened under each of PTE versions 5.52, 5.64 and 6.01. An exe file was created using each version of PTE: PTE449Menu, PTE552Menu, PTE564Menu and PTE601Menu.

Using PTE v6.01

The best results were obtained with Hardware Acceleration turned off and with the Project Option set for Windowed Mode rather than Fullscreen mode. The window was sized at 1024x768 as that is the native resolution of the projector that will be used for the Festival. The problem was still present using this software and these settings.

Using PTE v5.64

The best results were obtained using the same settings as for v6.01. The problem was still present using this software and these settings.

Using PTEv5.52

The best results were obtained using the same settings as for v6.01. The problem was still present using this software and these settings but seemed, somehow, less intrusive.

Using PTE v4.49

The best result was obtained using Fullscreen mode. The problem was much less noticeable. However, it was observed that the Windows Taskbar flashed up briefly as each sequence was launched from the menu. This new problem was eliminated by turning off the option to “Keep the taskbar on top of other windows” in the Taskbar Properties.

Re-testing the other menus with the Taskbar option turned off gave some improvement in every case but did not eliminate the “flashback” problem completely in any of them.

So, none of the above options was entirely satisfactory. The best options seemed to be either v4.49 or v5.52 with, in both cases, the Taskbar set to not stay on top of other windows.

Then, whilst doing some overdue tidying up of my File System I came across a menu sequence that I had built in late August 2008. All the sequences that it launched were also built prior to late-August 2008. When I ran this menu it displayed as a Windowed mode menu and ran faultlessly – no flashbacks, no taskbar being displayed. Upon opening its PTE project file in Notepad I found that it had been built using v5.52. So why couldn’t I get the same smoothness using v5.52 now?

I have checked back through my financial accounts, and the desktop PC was purchased in 2007. So, all the menu sequences (new and old) were built using the desktop PC. The only significant change that I can see is that the desktop PC has had numerous Windows upgrades applied to it. I can conclude only that somewhere along the way one of the Windows upgrades introduced a code change that made this problem of “flashback” come to light in the first place.

However, further thought brought back to my mind that this problem never happened on a Windows XP system. That realisation prompted two questions in my mind:

• What would happen if I took these various menu sequences and played them on an XP machine?
  
• What would happen if I built the menu sequences on an XP machine and then brought them to run on a Vista machine?
  

As I still had an old laptop system that ran XP, I decided to give this a try.

After allowing the old laptop to update its Norton Internet Security files and letting it install the small backlog of Windows updates, I tried all the menus. Every one of them worked perfectly after I turned off the “Keep taskbar on top” feature of Windows.

So, the simplest solution for our forthcoming Festival would seem to be: obtain a PC that uses Windows XP operating system and turn off the Taskbar option of "keep on top". But the PC will have to have a fairly “meaty” graphics card so that we don’t have to worry about any problems with any animated sequences.

I have not yet tried building the menus on the XP system and then running them on the Vista system but, if my memory is accurate, that was what I was doing when I found the original problem 2-3 years ago. But I will give that a new test and report back with the outcome. First, I'll have to track down the PTE download files in my archives. Could take an hour or two.

regards,

Peter

[JRR]

Peter:

Thanks for doing all the research. It will be of great benefit to many of us !!!!

[Ken Cox]

PETER

thks for the extra effort getting this done -- must have been like a big jigsaw puzzle:)

ken

[fh1805]

Ken,

It ain't over yet!! Off forum I've just been telling Jim: I've identified a need for 18 sequences and 320 separate tests in order to check out all permutations of the relevant variables!

regards,

Peter

[fh1805]

A new day, a new fall of snow and a new set of sequences to test.

I've built 17 of the 18 sequences that I need (haven't built the v4.49 menu yet) and I've started testing. This is just an early "heads up" to the fact that I'm getting some "interesting" results. I need more time to re-run the tests (to confirm the repeatability of the results) and also more time to think about what the results might be telling me. Once I've got everything clear in my head and documented, I'll be back.

The general summary is that none of the PTE versions I'm using behaves the same as any other. They each have their subtle shifts in behaviour.

Watch this space!

regards,

Peter

[fh1805]

I've found three new bugs in v6.01 in respect of its ability to handle the launch of sequences built using various versions of PTE. The new topics are:

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11316

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11317

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11318

regards,

Peter

[fh1805]

This post, another long one, describes the testing done on this subject and attempts to summarise my findings.

The most consistent and cleanest results were all obtained with the Windows Taskbar set to not “Keep taskbar on top of other windows” in the Taskbar Properties. But this setting did not eliminate all problems.

The most successful combinations with “Taskbar off” are:

• PTE v5.52 menu with D3D off – ran everything cleanly

• PTE v5.64 menu with D3D on – ran everything cleanly

The test environment

The test environment comprised 6 menu sequences and 10 target sequences as follows:

Menu sequences

All the menu sequences comprise two slides: black, coloured. The first slide has a text object that summarises the nature of the sequence. The second slide carries the menu (built using thumbnail images that have the action “Run application or open file…” defined). The sequences are:

PTE552MenuA – D3D turned off

PTE552MenuB – D3D turned on but no PZR effects used

PTE564MenuA – D3D turned off

PTE564MenuB – D3D turned on but no PZR effects used

PTE601MenuA – D3D turned off

PTE601MenuB – D3D turned on but no PZR effects used

The above are all manually controlled sequences that use Left Click to advance to the next slide.

Target sequences

All the following sequences comprise three slides of four seconds duration each: black, coloured, black. All sequences use fade transitions of 1500ms duration throughout.

File PTE version Comments

S449 PTE v4.49

S552-1 PTE v5.52 D3D off – no PZR effects

S552-2 PTE v5.52 D3D on – no PZR effects

S552-3 PTE v5.52 D3D on – slide #2 image is rotated 180 degrees

S564-1 PTE v5.64 D3D off – no PZR effects

S564-2 PTE v5.64 D3D on – no PZR effects

S564-3 PTE v5.64 D3D on – slide #2 image is rotated 180 degrees

S601-1 PTE v6.01 D3D off – no PZR effects

S601-2 PTE v6.01 D3D on – no PZR effects

S601-3 PTE v6.01 D3D on – slide #2 image is rotated 180 degrees

All sequences were built on a desktop PC running under Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack2 and subsequent updates installed. The tests were performed on the same system.

Summary of results

Various problems were identified as follows:

• In some situations the Windows Taskbar was re-displayed briefly either before or after the target sequence. This was completely eliminated by changing the Taskbar Properties to not “Keep the taskbar on top of other windows”. However, since some of the PTE Exe files could be launched without the Taskbar being displayed, I feel this represents a weakness, if not an actual bug, in the PTE code.
  
• In almost all cases, launching D3D enabled sequences from a D3D enabled menu resulted in unwanted flashes of either the Windows desktop or the first image of the launched sequences and unwanted flashes of the menu image during the return to the menu.
  
• The PTE v5.52 menu with D3D turned on exhibited an unusual problem when running a PTE 5.52 sequence that had D3D turned on. After completing the execution of the target sequence, control was not returned to the menu sequence until after the mouse pointer had been moved to a position outside the area of the thumbnail image used to perform the launch.
  
• The PTE v6.01 menu with D3D enabled exhibited a problem which has to be a bug and has been reported as such to WnSoft. It would launch the v4.49 target sequence and the v5.64 target sequence that had D3D disabled but would not allow either of these to take control of the monitor. It was only by using Windows Task Manager to monitor activity that I realised that these two sequences were being launched and were running to completion. My initial reaction was that they were not being launched.
  

The following question remains unanswered:

• Why does a PTE v6.01 menu with “D3D on” give a double flash of the menu slide when a v5.52 target sequence is launched? No other PTE version exhibits this behaviour. And the behaviour occurs whether the Taskbar is on or off.
  
• Why does a PTE v6.01 menu with “D3D off” running in a “Taskbar on” environment show the Taskbar when launching v5.64 or v6.01 target sequences but not when launching v4.49 or v5.52 sequences?
  

[fh1805]

I've attached to this post the Excel workbook file in which I documented my test results.

regards,

Peter

Test Results.zip

Please note: The latest version of the Test Results is attached to post #10

[fh1805]

Tomorrow I'll copy all the files over to my XP laptop and re-run the tests (all 120 of them!). Expect another bulletin later tomorrow.

regards,

Peter

[fh1805]

I've now completed the tests using my XP system. This gave much more consistent results across the various permutations than had the Vista system. But still there were some problems as detailed below.

With the Taskbar turned on, it flashed on screen, wholly or just in parts, in every single situation; so turning the taskbar off is essential on an XP system (just as it was highly desirable on a Vista system).

With the Taskbar turned off and with D3D turned off in the menu sequence, all three versions of the menu (v5.52, v5.64 and v6.01) behaved flawlessly. This combination was a clear winner.

With the taskbar turned off but with D3D turned on in the menu sequence, there were problems with all three versions of the menu as follows:

• Menu built with v5.52 (PTE552MenuB) had a problem when running the three 5.52 target sequences. Each of them hung until the mouse was moved. The movement had to take the mouse outside the area occupied by the thumbnail image before the return to menu was completed.
  
• Menu built with v5.64 (PTE564MenuB) had a problem with the third v6.01 target sequence (S601-3). There was a double flash of the menu screen during return to the menu.
  
• Menu built with v6.01 (PTE601MenuB) had a problem with all target sequences except that built using v4.49. There was a double display of the menu slide during the launch of each target sequence.
  

So, the overall conclusion is:

• In PTE, turn D3D off in all menu sequences (and by implication, don't use any fancy features in the menu sequence)
  
• In Windows, set "Keep taskbar on top of other windows" off via Taskbar Properties
  
• Run the sequences on an XP system rather than a Vista system
  

I've attached an updated version of the Test Results spreadsheet to this post

regards,

Peter

Test Results.zip

[JRR]

Peter:

I ran your sequences on the laptop with Windows 7.

The results were mixed. Overall the Task Bar was in view more often. (By TASK BAR "off" I interpreted that as meaning turning off the LOCK TASK BAR when right clicking on the task bar)

I also found that sometimes, very briefly, the hourglass showed before the sequence started. It was there for maybe half a second. I did not track that.

There were a number of times that I got different results on the first run vs the second or third.

I have attached my results with my different findings in red. I used your your VISTA test run pages as the "norm".

EDIT PS: See Peter's posting #13 below. The results in the attached spreadsheet are not valid for TASK BAR = "OFF" as I did not turn it OFF correctly

jrr_Test Results.zip

[Ken Cox]

JIM

see

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11318&view=findpost&p=72965

Igor has acknowleged the prob

ken

[fh1805]

Jim,

"Taskbar off" denotes that the option "Keep taskbar on top of other windows" has been disabled in the Taskbar Properties (accessed via a right click on the Taskbar and then select Properties)

I would expect Windows7 to behave similarly to Vista because it is my understanding that it uses the same or very similar "Aero" interface for the monitor display.

regards,

Peter

[fh1805]

...There were a number of times that I got different results on the first run vs the second or third...

I noticed this behaviour this morning for the first time. I'm still pondering on why it happens and what further tests I might need to do. My current hypothesis is that behaviour is consistent if you show only "all D3D Off" sequences or only "all D3D On" sequences but becomes inconsistent as soon as you change from D3D On to D3D Off and back again, or vice versa. If this is a consistent pattern of behaviour then it suggests to me that the "D3D On"/"D3D Off" conditions are not being properly initiated and/or terminated; thus resulting in something being left set that shouldn't be set or something being not set that should be set. But all this needs more thought and more, carefully planned, testing. For the moment I've had enough of menus to last me a few days.

I'll probably come back to it later on this weekend or early next week.

regards,

Peter

[JRR]

Jim,

"Taskbar off" denotes that the option "Keep taskbar on top of other windows" has been disabled in the Taskbar Properties (accessed via a right click on the Taskbar and then select Properties)

I would expect Windows7 to behave similarly to Vista because it is my understanding that it uses the same or very similar "Aero" interface for the monitor display.

regards,

Peter

Thx Peter

Well that negates any findings that I had with regard to TASK BAR being "OFF", I will note that in my posting above.

As Ken says, Igor has noted the issue and will I am sure resolve it in time.

I am not surprised that you are menu'ed out !!!

[Guest Yachtsman1]

I don't know if this helps, but by default I hide my task bar when using the laptop as it gives a bigger viewing area on my laptop, bringing it into view by hovering the mouse over it. I have constructed multi function menus using 6.1 and activating 6.1 & 5.6 exe files. I use XP SP3 and everything appears to work fine

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[fh1805]

Eric,

Do your menus have D3D on or off?

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Eric,

Do your menus have D3D on or off?

regards,

Peter

Hi Peter

Its on, (ticked)

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi All

Sorry to rake this up again, but it's our clubs first AV comp next Monday and I've got the job of showing the entries. As I am having an up-hill battle trying to promote AV I want the night to run as smoothly as possible. At the moment we have 5 official entries & a number of others in reserve if we have to pad out the night. Two of the official entries have been produced using slide show software from a version of Photoshop & one from Elements. I have constructed a menu and the PTE entries all operate as they should, but the other two I can't get to open by pressing their menu buttons. I've trie all the options listed in the common tab "actions on mouse click" but none will open the files. Outside of PTE, one show opens with WMP & one with Cyberlink Power Starter, which is my DVD copying programme. I think I'm flogging a dead horse but just need confirmation before I go down another route. I've attached a SS of the menu screen to show how far I've got.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[JRR]

Eric:

Can't tell much from a screen shot, how about the zipped pte file ?

I launch to WMP frequently using a menu show.

[nobeefstu]

Eric,

Jim is quite correct ... the picture does not show us the filestrings used to launch the problematic slideshows.

It would benefit you to check the File Properties of the problematic slideshows and see what program your PC has (or has not) registered for the default opening of the file. Also after you right-click the File the bold text displayed atop the selection list panel denotes the default file action used when the file is double-clicked. Your PC configuration on registered File Types may need some changes/additions to properly open the file the way you want and the program you want to open it.

To totally avoid any such changes or additions to your current File Types configuration ... you need to specifically call the required program to open the file in your PTE filestring. First, you need to determine what specific program is required to best run the file.

Please note ;

To call or open with a specific program ... that program must be installed on your PC. Also remember that all programs cannot open just any file extention and not all programs accept calls to perform parameters or command functions. It can get both complicated and confusing at times ... and sometimes it just cannot be done.

Hopefully your issue is simple to resolve

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Jim & Nobeefstu

I cannot pass the file on as there could be club problems with ownership etc. The two programmes with problems, one was created in some version of Pshop & one in Elements 5. I'm not savvy enough to start swapping around file types. I will say that when I try to associate the two files, they cannot be seen until I use "show all files". I'll just have to bite the bullet and open them conventionally. Thanks for the help.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[JRR]

Eric:

I understand your concern, but zipping for back up does not copy the exe files. (Or at least doesn't for me)

Do it for yourself, check what is in the zip file.

[Ken Cox]

IMHO

no exe in the zip unless you make an exe and save it in the main folder

why store an exe when they are so easy to make when needed?

ken

[nobeefstu]

Eric,

As far as Im concerned ... it you dont want to supply just your Menu.pte file (no images, sounds files etc are needed) thats upto you.

All thats required for me to review your issue is that you just supply the filestrings you exactly entered into your button objects to launch the problem slideshows. Revealing the filestrings you used will not compromise any user(s) material.

I will say that when I try to associate the two files, they cannot be seen until I use "show all files".

You will do yourself a great service to enable the "show all files" ... now at this stage with your current experience and knowledge with a PC. It becomes quite a handicap to anyone who builds any type of program not to be able see what files and extentions they may need to work with. Its hard to understand the workings of a PC if you cannot see whats on it.