Background smusic and Commentary

[aplman]

I am very excited by what I have read in the "Plans for next verson"!

May I make a small suggestion that might be conveniently implemented at the same time? When there is background sound (which I imagine is usually continuous music and not tied to particular slides), and also sound on particular slides (which is probably voice commentary), it would be great to have the background music automatically reduced in volume when the commentary comes in. Ideally, fading out before the commentary, and fading in after, would be fantastic. Also desirable would be a user option to specify the amount of volume reduction, from zero to 100%.

The result would be a much more convenient process for building the slideshow, and a more professional-sounding result.

Thank you for giving this your earnest consideration!

[xahu34]

I don't think that this feature would be that helpful. I hope that PTE will overcome the present problem with background sound and commentary, where you insert audio clips at two distinct places. As it has been requested in this forum many times: PTE should provide independent (parallel) audio tracks where you can place clips at arbitrary positions in combination with elementary editing (e.g, volume curves).

Regards,

Xaver

[JRR]

Xaver

Depending on how it might actually would work, I think APLman's suggestion is a good one. However never for a moment am I dreaming that Igor will offer anything like that. Like you, multi-tracks with elementary editing was all I am hoping for.

95% of my shows use voice over so any EFFECTIVE automation of lowering the background would be welcome.

Right now I am in the middle of a 22 minute show with 93 sound clips and it would be nice to say: "PTE do your thing". But as I say, I would only use it if it were truly effective.

[CorVdK]

...it would be great to have the background music automatically reduced in volume when the commentary comes in.

95% of my shows use voice over so any EFFECTIVE automation of lowering the background would be welcome.

Hello to All,

I hope it will be not like that!

Automatic reducing in volume when the commentary comes in is impossible, maybe technically possible, but not on a creative way.

Every piece of music is different, I'm not even talking about volume, where to fade in/out, a linear fade, drag up to create a quick, smooth logarithmic fade, or drag down to create a long, smooth exponential fade, etc.

The reducing in volume must be done manually adaptable, specially with narration.

I'm sorry to say, but this kind of automation will never work with a voice over. You will always have problems to link the music in a proper way with your voice over. Your fade will always come too early or too late.

Why always want automation? AV is not band work.

To create dynamic mixes, it is best to use keyframes in the tracks. With the keyframes, linear transitions can create a smooth, gradual change in the music, and bring the narration volume in a right way.

I hope that Igor will take the right decision about this mather.

Greetings,

Cor

[cjdnzl]

There have been a lot of posts in these forums about sound editing in PTE, and I confess to being puzzled as to why it is thought necessary or desirable to edit sound within PTE.

With software available like Audacity (free) and Goldwave (about $US49) - specialized sound editors which are far ahead of what PTE could be expected to offer, what is the point in wanting PTE to 're-invent the wheel', so to speak?

Personally, I am perfectly happy for PTE to have no sound editing capability at all, just as it does not offer advanced image editing capability, for which there are many programs from Gimp to Photoshop available.

PTE is an outstanding slide-show program for assembling images and sound into breathtaking shows. Preparation of those images and sound tracks is not, and should not be, part of PTE.

The particular problem described in the first post in this thread, reducing the music level while a voice-over is active, is trivial to handle in Goldwave (the sound editor I use). Goldwave, and I presume Audacity, has timelines calibrated down to milliseconds. With both music and voice-over tracks in parallel on screen it is very easy to reduce the music level exactly where you want it, and then combine the tracks into one composite track. Further, you can do all your editing and mixing in the lossless .wav format, and then convert to lossy mp3 as a final step. By saving the .wav file, you can revisit the track at any time for revision without loss.

I cannot see that we could expect PTE to do anything like this, any more than I would expect PTE to be able to emulate Photoshop for editing images.

Well, that's my two cents (and worth every penny, as some would say )

Colin

[xahu34]

There have been a lot of posts in these forums about sound editing in PTE, and I confess to being puzzled as to why it is thought necessary or desirable to edit sound within PTE ...

Colin,

Let me invite you to read the following topic: http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9424

Regards,

Xaver

[cjdnzl]

Colin,

Let me invite you to read the following topic: http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9424

Regards,

Xaver

Hello Xaver,

I looked at that topic, and I remember reading it when it was 'live'. But, apart from Peter extolling the capability of Wings Platinum to handle complex audio tasks, the thread opinions vary from those wanting audio capability to others claiming that Audacity or Audition was the better route, citing inter alia how cluttered the PTE screen would be if filled with many audio channels as well as picture information.

I remain convinced that a separate audio editor, like a separate image editor, is the way to go. Nobody has yet said that Wings can operate in .wav format, then save the file as a lossless .wav file before converting to MP3 or other desired format for incorporating into the slide show. Audacity/Audition and Goldwave can do that, just as Photoshop can work in and save images as 16-bit tiffs, converting to jpg or dng files for PTE. Also, assembling multi-track sound in PTE does not save the composite audio file, and if something crashes one would have to reassemble the sound from scratch, whereas a track made in Audacity and saved will be available for immediate use if the PTE version crashes. The same argument also applies to images.

Lastly, putting advanced editing facilities into PTE will inevitably increase the price, the program complexity, and the learning curve for new users, a potentially counterproductive step.

Regards,

Colin

[fh1805]

Colin,

I am not an advocate of sound file editing in PTE. What I do support is sound file management: the ability to treat sound files as objects: assigning them to a specific place on the time line, assigning a transition effect (i.e. fade in/fade out) and allowing control over their opacity (i.e. control over their volume).

PTE is marketed as Audio-Visual software. I have stated more than once before that it is great on the V but lacking in the A.

I think the addition of sound handling (not editing) features would improve its usability. I envisage being able to drop in pieces of music and other sounds and place them precisely, in order to test whether they really do match the mood and length that I'm after. To do these "quick and dirty" audio builds inside PTE would mean that I would not have to build so many interim soundtracks. And when I did have all the pieces of sound placed where I wanted them, I would still have the option of using that knowledge to build the final soundtrack in Audacity.

For me:

Image editing = Photoshop Elements

Sound editing = Audacity

Audio-Visual sequence build = PTE v6.5 (bring it on, Igor!)

regards,

Peter

[Don]

Is there a better middle-ground where PTE would avoid reinventing the wheel? Specifically, could PTE be adapted to work more seamlessly with Audacity?

I am a new PTE user, having put together only a handful of slideshows. So, my comments should be viewed in that context. I use Audacity as my sound editor. I have found it easy to use, flexible, and extremely precise. The only complication that I experience is when making an adjustment in Audacity that must then be saved and reviewed in PTE. It is by no means a big deal, but I do have to wait a few minutes while the Audacity project is being converted to either OGG or MP3. Then, I go back into PTE to confirm that my audio adjustments are timed properly for the visuals. They almost always are.

Many of the audio problems that I see being discussed in this forum are quite simple to address in Audacity. I see no need to reinvent the wheel. Just make it more seamless with PTE.

[aplman]

Hello ... APLman (Ken) here again.

I'm appreciative of all the comments my simple suggestuion has provoked - thank you all.

However, I omitted to mention something that I thought was obvious. I can set up my chosen list of background sound tracks, and, sure, I can do whatever I like with those in Audacity beforehand. I can align my commentary tracks with particular slides in PTE. But if I subsequently want to change something as simple as the duration of a single slide, the relationskhip between the sound tracks will change. Therefore any arranged fading out and in of background music will no longer coincide with the commentary.

I would prefer to have the flexibility to change either the visual or sound aspects of my project without upsetting the other.

I really do need some help from the PTE program in this regard, and I judged that it would be a pretty simple programming matter, compared with the clever things Igor already plans to give us, such as support for video clips.

Naturally the feature I suggest would be optional, and need not have the slightest effect on anyone who does not like or want it. A simple global Project Option would be enough.

Please, friends, support my request ... save me (and possibly yourself) many future hours of fiddling!!!

Regards and Best Wishes to all ...

Ken.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi All

Here is my 3 penneth on this.

When I compile a new show I get my inspiration from either the pictures or some piece/s of music I have heard. If I have a set of pictures I want to add suitable music, I first assemble the pictures, set the slide times to a default of say 8 seconds with a simple 1.5 to 2.5 second fade. add a black slide at the start & finish, add a title & credit slide/s . which now gives me a total run length for the show. Of late I have been limiting my shows to between 6 & 12 minutes. When I've reached this stage, I look/listen around for suitable pieces of music to suit the pictures and ensure i have sufficient length for the run time. If I intend to add a voice over, I will then write a script to match the picture content, record it the add it to the assembled music via Audacity. I then run Audacity & PTE together, adjusting the times in both pictures & sound until I have my show compiled. Then I save the sound as an MP3 and add it to my PTE show. I then run the show, if I think it needs any tweaking I adjust the slide times not the ST. If I feel slide 20 needs a second removing I will add the removed time elsewhere, black slides, titles or one or more of the other slides, then at the end ensure I have the same length of ST as I started with.

Alternatively, if it is some piece of music that inspires me, I will go out and take some pictures to match the music, assemble my ST to the length I want the show to run, considering the number of suitable pictures I have obtained. Then using the same principle, tweak the pictures & music until they are more or less the same length. Add them together and make any final adjustments to the run length of the pictures.

I do it this way as it gives me pleasure to do it like that, I'm probably too old to change, and don't feel features like auto fade would give me the pleasure that using my own artistic judgement would give.

It seems inevitable that the sound side of PTE will be expanded, I only hope I can still use the programme as I like to use it and not have something I don't like forced on me. My previous questions to Igor indicated that this would not happen and the additional features would be available to those that want them, and best of all the price will stay as is.

Finally, this is my opinion and method of doing things, it is not intended to impose, just inform.

Yachtsman1

[fh1805]

...don't feel features like auto fade would give me the pleasure that using my own artistic judgement would give...

When it comes to automating fade of music against voice-over I think Eric has hit the nail on the head. Automation, if imposed rather than offered as an option, would rob us of an opportunity to apply our own creative stamp to our work.

I have no objection to it being offered as a user-selectable option; just as I have no objection to the existing user-selectable option of random transitions between slides.

Some PTE users will want to be able to create a sequence that looks and sounds reasonably professional with a minimum of effort. That's fine by me! But I would prefer to have full manual control of all the features of PTE so that I can exactly express my own personal attitude towards what constitutes artistic creativity.

regards,

Peter

[JRR]

I plead guilty to being the person who used the word "automate" in an earlier posting to this thread.

I didn't intend it to mean a mandatory automate, just an optional one as Peter is saying. One always needs to retain control. (I am in the middle of working on a 22 minute show with 93 sound bites and just getting tired working on the editing of the sound . 95% of our shows are under 10 minutes)

I also mentioned that I never in a moment dreamt, or expected, to have such a feature.

[dawely]

Ciao a tutti

io sono un nuovo utente e utilizzo da un pò PTE, credo che come programma di slide fotografico sia ottimo, è vero che per la colonna sonora bisogna utilizzare un software esterno, io per esempio utilizzo Nero WaveEditor, ma se si vuole un programma che non utilizza troppo spazio sul nostro hard-disck e sia abordabile a tutti per i costi contenuti,bisogna accettare il compromesso di lavorare con due software.

[Ken Cox]

Ciao a tutti

io sono un nuovo utente e utilizzo da un pò PTE, credo che come programma di slide fotografico sia ottimo, è vero che per la colonna sonora bisogna utilizzare un software esterno, io per esempio utilizzo Nero WaveEditor, ma se si vuole un programma che non utilizza troppo spazio sul nostro hard-disck e sia abordabile a tutti per i costi contenuti,bisogna accettare il compromesso di lavorare con due software.

The forum is english only - please convert it from your language to english

- if you cannot please advise and one of the members will transcribe it

thanks

using babel fish i have translated it from Italian to English

In English<BR clear=all>Hello to all I am a new customer and use from a P2o PTE, creed that like photographic or optimal program of slide, is true that for the sonorous column it must use an external software, I as an example uses Black WaveEditor, but if it wants a program that it too much does not use space on ours hard-disck and or abordabile to all for the contained costs, must accept the compromise to work with two software.

ken

[martinhickling]

Colin,

I am not an advocate of sound file editing in PTE. What I do support is sound file management: the ability to treat sound files as objects: assigning them to a specific place on the time line, assigning a transition effect (i.e. fade in/fade out) and allowing control over their opacity (i.e. control over their volume).

PTE is marketed as Audio-Visual software. I have stated more than once before that it is great on the V but lacking in the A.

I think the addition of sound handling (not editing) features would improve its usability. I envisage being able to drop in pieces of music and other sounds and place them precisely, in order to test whether they really do match the mood and length that I'm after. To do these "quick and dirty" audio builds inside PTE would mean that I would not have to build so many interim soundtracks. And when I did have all the pieces of sound placed where I wanted them, I would still have the option of using that knowledge to build the final soundtrack in Audacity.

For me:

Image editing = Photoshop Elements

Sound editing = Audacity

Audio-Visual sequence build = PTE v6.5 (bring it on, Igor!)

regards,

Peter

[martinhickling]

I quite agree with you. I would like some way of controling the volume levels on sound effects add to a slide.