A suggestion about titles

[Almark]

Hi Folks,

I noticed that Maureen recently gave her Av a title and in the description section outlined:

the length of the Av

the size of the download in MB

and the number of slides.

I found this useful. Did you?

Perhaps we should encourage this type of approach? I am not sure about including the number of slides, but what do you think about asking members of the forum to add the following to the description?

Size ??MB, Length X mins, Intended Audience: (eg family, camera club, competition, everyone)

May I suggest that such an approach would encourage folk to download what they are interested in seeing, based on the description provided and to offer feedback? It would also help those members who are kind enough to provide detailed feedback by knowing the intended audience.

What do you think?

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi mark

I've been doing that for the last 10 shows I've made available for general viewing. I think it should be a requirement when advertising a new production. Lots of times I have gone through the motions of downloading someone elses show, only to find its too large for what I consider to be a raesonable download time. Of course if the UK ever gets super fast broadband that would be irrelevant.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[trailertrash]

Because everything I produce is for comment/advice, I do that anyway. I to think it should be a standard.

[davegee]

My comment to Maureen:

"I APPLAUD the fact that you have given details of the resolution, timing etc of the show - this is something I have advocated for some time now and which, unfortunately, not many people do. A further progression on this would be to put it in the opening titles so that it would remind the viewer each time it is opened."

Resolution is the single most important attribute which needs to be passed to the viewer.

DG

[Ed Overstreet]

Personally I'm not a fan of including technical information in title or credit slides. I find it distracting when I see it, and most people in the audiences to whom I display my shows couldn't care less how long the show runs or what resolution it is. This information is important for the organizers of an event, or perhaps for people who are thinking of downloading and viewing a show, I admit. But it doesn't have to be in the title -- it can be in the file name (or in an email to the organizers, or in text posted on a website next to the download link if it's not a submission for an event).

Our AV Group requires submissions for our showcase nights to have a file name that includes the producer's name and the run time. We don't require resolution information (since our submission rules specify what that will be), but that could easily be added. So for example, <Ed_Overstreet_Windmills_6m24s_1400x1050.exe> only we don't ask for nor need the 1400x1050. And unless we allow more than one submission per producer, we neither require nor expect a subject or show title in the file name. Just <Ed_Overstreet_6m24s.exe> is all that we would require if only one show per producer is allowed. (The run time makes it easier for the organizer to know whether there will be a time problem for the evening and helps in organizing the shows in a "batting order.")

We don't have any requirements as to what is included in title and credit slides. Most of us usually have a title slide of some kind, though that isn't a requirement (and the title slide isn't always, nor is it required to be, the first slide of the show). Either a title or credit slide usually includes the name of the producer, identifies the music, and (if it isn't otherwise obvious from the title or the photographs and the producer thinks the information is important for the audience) the credit slide(s) may also include information about the location depicted. But none of this is required. I suppose these things will always vary, depending on the producer's intent. Some shows I've seen also include in the credits information about what camera and lens(es) was used in taking the photographs, which is further information I don't want or need to know and that adds nothing to my enjoyment of the show. But that's a personal taste.

Which is what it ultimately comes down to -- personal taste. What information do you, the producer, want or need to communicate to the viewer? Except for submission requirements for an event I wanted to enter, I would resist or probably ignore any "rules" that someone tried to foster for title and credit slides.

I'm having trouble seeing how including run time or resolution information in a title slide embedded in a show really helps people who don't know if they want to download a show, since they aren't going to see the title slide until they actually download the thing and start to run it. Which is one of the reasons I'm suggesting that information might be more suitable in the file name, if that is visible to the person contemplating a download. Or, if you're posting the show on a website, that information could appear on the website next to the download link.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Ed

The suggestion was to add the details to the post when advertising a new show

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[Ed Overstreet]

Ed

The suggestion was to add the details to the post when advertising a new show

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

Sorry I haven't had my morning coffee yet, should have read more carefully I was reacting more to Dave's comment about including the information in the title slide, and not paying as much attention to the other comments.

I still would resist following Dave's suggestion of posting the run time (or other technical information) in a title slide, though.

[cottage]

Mark, (et al.)

When forum members (and others) choose to upload their creations to my site, I provide a feature entitled "Author's Notes". In fact, this feature was suggested by a visitor several years ago. It is in hopes that PTE authors will utilize this area to include just the kind of information you are referring to. Some use it, others do not.

Personally I find it very informative when a presentation includes this information, as well as any additional info the author wishes to provide, i.e. cameras/lenses used, the location where the images were taken, music, etc.

Although this feature has been offered for a long time, few use it. Best wishes for a successful campaign.

Regards,

Bill

[davegee]

Ed,

I download shows from various sources to see what's happening and to improve my own work by using ideas etc.

I am always wary of commenting on quality if I don't have the right information about a show.

For instance if a show is made at FULLSCREEN using 1024x768 or 1400x1050 images and the incorrect settings then, on my monitor (1920x1200), those images are going to be UPSCALED to fit my monitor. We have discussed this subject over a long period of time and I think that we all agree that viewing a 1024x768 show upscaled to 1920x1200 is not a good idea. That's why the "Fixed size of slide (in pixels)" tick box is SO IMPORTANT.

But, unless I KNOW that I am watching an upscaled version I could be thinking that the author has used inadequate images for his/her production and comment accordingly.

All I ask is the author indicates "Best viewed at XXXX x XXXX Resolution".

Is that really too much to ask?

Quote:"Resolution is the single most important attribute which needs to be passed to the viewer."

I'm not really worried about HOW it is passed to the viewer, but it wouldn't worry me if it were in the title credits. If it is in the download information it can get separated from the show over a period of time and then the ONLY safe way of transmitting the information is by including it inside the show somewhere.

In your scenario (club competition) it is not required, but for those who want to upload to the likes of Cottage's site IMHO it is essential. Which is why I applauded Maureen's initiative. The mistake I made was in suggesting a little bit more.

Slap on the wrist - don't do it again. You should know better!

DG

[Ed Overstreet]

All I ask is the author indicates "Best viewed at XXXX x XXXX Resolution".

Is that really too much to ask?

Quote:"Resolution is the single most important attribute which needs to be passed to the viewer."

I'm not really worried about HOW it is passed to the viewer, but it wouldn't worry me if it were in the title credits. If it is in the download information it can get separated from the show over a period of time and then the ONLY safe way of transmitting the information is by including it inside the show somewhere.

In your scenario (club competition) it is not required, but for those who want to upload to the likes of Cottage's site IMHO it is essential. Which is why I applauded Maureen's initiative. The mistake I made was in suggesting a little bit more.

Slap on the wrist - don't do it again. You should know better!

DG

Hi Dave, sorry if I came across as slapping your wrist, that certainly wasn't my intention. I guess I should refrain for posting things on forums until after I've had my morning coffee Mea culpa.

Having now had my morning coffee I actually find myself agreeing with you on the importance of making the resolution of the show visible to the user, and in fact even to the producer. I now remember that I have several PTE shows from a few years ago that I created at 800x600 and some others at 1024x768. It can be a jolt to run one of these on a 1920x1080 display, when one didn't remember ... which I often don't. I now wish I'd put that information in my file names, maybe I'll go back into my archive folder(s) and rename the EXEs accordingly.

To my mind the safest way of keeping that info with the show is to incorporate it into the file name itself, which is always going to be visible in Windows Explorer or any other file browser. Keeping in mind of course the need to keep file names manageable in size ... I guess there are no easy answers that will please everyone. I have a personal preference against "cluttering" (to my mind, of course) the title or credit slides with technical information inside the show, which is why I'd opt for doing it in the file name. But that's me and not everyone.

The ideal might be to convince Microsoft to work with Igor and company to work on having a pop-up display in Windows Explorer that gives you some file properties on the show, ideally at least the resolution and the run time, the way you usually get pixel dimensions when you mouse over a JPG or sound-clip length when you mouse over a WAV or MP3 file in Windows Explorer. Or maybe that information could somehow be incorporated into the Properties display you can get when you right-click on the EXE file, if Microsoft agreed. But I somehow don't think it would be worth Igor's time to try to convince Microsoft to do something like that, given my impression of their "responsiveness" to developers, from what I've heard through the grapevine

[davegee]

The file name approach might just work.

DG

[jfa]

I like Marks original idea, particular posting who the intended audience is, (eg family, camera club, competition, everyone), and the purpose of the production, (tell a story, entertainment, preserve some history, work of art, display my photography, test a new idea, all of the above and so on).

[Almark]

I assume the purpose of this sub forum or group, 'Slideshows created in PicturesToExe - Announcements of new slideshows and discussions' is simply what it says on the tin. A place for PTE workers to announce their new shows and hopefully generate some discussion, (debate, help, guidance, feedback, constructive criticism, praise of what works well and so on). I think this suggestion would help members decide on what thread they want to explore and as a result make the group more efficient and effective. And for reasons I allude to below, I think it would improve the 'dynamic' of discussion.

I have noticed, from the above comments, the dissatisfaction felt when members discover the file is much bigger than they really wanted to download, or that once downloaded it fails to run properly on their monitor. While clearly the onus is on the author too get things right, and supply all the relevant information - maybe some policy, direction or advice from the moderating team would help. I have to hold my hands up high and admit that I haven't, in the past, been offering enough information. But I was impressed with the way Maureen offered her title and description and thought the crucial area for members who do provide detailed feedback is the intended audience.

I like to provide feedback. Human nature being what it is, I find that if I spend some time and give feedback, sometimes detailed feedback, I am re paid when I post my new shows (he helped me so I will help him.) For example, and I apologise to Maureen in advance, but when she posts a show she knows that I will offer feedback. I know that when I post a show she will do the same. This is one of the strong points of this forum overall, and this sub forum in particular. Therefore if there is anything we can do to help promote and encourage this, then I think we should do it.

By knowing the intended audience members can consider this when watching the show and before making feedback and joining in the discussion. This should avoid confusion and perhaps inappropriate comments being made - for example - the member thinks the intended audience is, say for a camera club, and offers advice or feedback, only to discover that the author is not one bit interested in such feedback as they really just wanted to post family photo album.

The bottom line is this; if there is consensus on this approach, then I think the mods should pin a topic called (something like) 'How to post your shows', or 'How to get the best from this forum'. I am not a moderator of this forum, although I have moderated on many forums in the past (Flashkit.com - for Swish and Flax FX). So, I do not want to step on anyone's toes or insult anyone's integrity. However; I am more than happy to prepare such a draft 'topic' in order to encourage and develop further debate.

[fh1805]

...The bottom line is this; if there is consensus on this approach, then I think the mods should pin a topic called (something like) 'How to post your shows', or 'How to get the best from this forum'...

Mark,

When the forum was extended last year, I created that kind of entry for all the new sections. To my shame, I never thought to check that there was an equivalent entry in the pre-existing sections. You are right, it would make sense to have one so I offer this initial draft of the text for everyone to comment on:

How to get the best from this forum

When posting a new show to the forum you can maximise the benefit that you get from the feedback by following the advice given here (Note: it is only advice and not, in any sense, strict rules)

In the Topic Title field put the title or subject matter of your sequence

In the Topic Description field put the following information:

File size, Running time, Aspect ratio, Resolution, Intended Audience

For example:

Topic Title: Carnival of Venice

Topic Description: 17.4MB, 3m42s, 4:3, 1920x1280, Camera clubs and AV groups

Topic Title: Summer Holiday

Topic Description: 34.5MB, 23m45s, 16:9, 1920x1080, Family and friends

regards,

Peter

[Ken Cox]

It would also be nice if people would name thier shows [the exe] the same as their description

and for their own records keep a link as to where they posted it

ken

[fh1805]

Ken,

I try and keep my exe filenames as short as possible. I wouldn't want to clutter them up with filesize, resolution, aspect ratio etc.

regards,

Peter

[Ken Cox]

PETER

my suggestion did not want file size, aspect etc

what i want to see is when somebody posts a show, the download name is the same as the contents of the zip or the exe.

you would not believe the different names of the same file in my collection and when somebody asks for a file the problems i encounter

and if you are posting shows for members to share, for your own records one should keep track of all info for that show

ken

[goddi]

Ken,

I try and keep my exe filenames as short as possible. I wouldn't want to clutter them up with filesize, resolution, aspect ratio etc.

regards,

Peter

=================

Peter,

I, too, would like to keep my filenames short. But as I have progressed in learning and in technology, they are getting longer and longer.

For example, when I started using PTE, it was simple. I created an exe with an aspect ratio (AR) of 4:3 for the computer screen. So the filename was “filename.exe”.

Then, I got into making them with an AR of 16:9. So the filename was “filename-16x9.exe”.

Then, I did not like the black bars on the right and left sides. I decided to zoom in on each image to extend the images left and right to remove the black bars and crop off the top and bottoms of each image to get the full 16:9 effect. So the filename was “filename-16x9z.exe”.

Then, I got into making the MP4s. I use the 16x9z exe file and choose ‘HD1920x1080’ and ‘Low Quality’ (I see no difference between HQ and LQ, saves space) and turn off the ‘Pan and Scan’. The filename is now “filename-16x9z-HD1920x1080LQ-PSN.mp4.

This is the only way I can keep track of what is going on and remember what the heck I did while I am converting all of my previous versions.

Gary :blink:

[Almark]

Peter, this is exactly what I was thinking about. I also think there is a general consensus, so why not go ahead?

[Ken Cox]

Mark

guess you missed Peter's comment

(Note: it is only advice and not, in any sense, strict rules)

It is not the forum's business to make rules as you suggest

Now if a competition has a set of rules for entrants to follow that is a different story, people on the forum put their shows up for people to share -- if they dont suit you, then dont download them

ken

[Ronniebootwest]

Mark,

When the forum was extended last year, I created that kind of entry for all the new sections. To my shame, I never thought to check that there was an equivalent entry in the pre-existing sections. You are right, it would make sense to have one so I offer this initial draft of the text for everyone to comment on:

How to get the best from this forum

When posting a new show to the forum you can maximise the benefit that you get from the feedback by following the advice given here (Note: it is only advice and not, in any sense, strict rules)

In the Topic Title field put the title or subject matter of your sequence

In the Topic Description field put the following information:

File size, Running time, Aspect ratio, Resolution, Intended Audience

For example:

Topic Title: Carnival of Venice

Topic Description: 17.4MB, 3m42s, 4:3, 1920x1280, Camera clubs and AV groups

Topic Title: Summer Holiday

Topic Description: 34.5MB, 23m45s, 16:9, 1920x1080, Family and friends

regards,

Peter

Peter,

I like your suggestion and will be implementing it with any future show that I post. I will also include the same description (somehow) on any downloads offered on my web site.

Regards,

Ron

[Almark]

Hi folks,

I thought there was a consensus to do this. It makes sense to me and, it would seem, many others. But in the meantime, there have been new posts (that do not offer any details as discussed.)

[fh1805]

Mark,

What we are witnessing is the fundamental problem of all forums. That which has been discussed and agreed and documented is not read by new users before they jump in and make their first post. And, as I have discovered in the past, even if something is well-documented e.g. via a FAQ topic, there is still no guarantee that new users will read those before making their post.

I'm sorry I haven't added the "How to get the best..." topic yet. I'll do that today. But I don't expect it to eliminate the problem.

regards,

Peter

[jfa]

Mark - Peter

You know the old saying---

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink".

[fh1805]

Mark - Peter

You know the old saying---

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink".

How very true! And there seem to be a lot of thirsty horses visiting this forum!

Peter