Bug in 6.5? Problem with Screen's '% of the slide'.

[goddi]

Greetings,

I have noticed what I think is a bug or at least something that needs attention to improve the Screen's '% of the slide to show main image' choice. (V6.5)

I created a file (attached) that recorded my steps (opens in IE) with a set of screen shots that displays what I am talking about. I have also inserted text boxes with my own comments, as needed.

The problem is that when the % is changed from 100% to 80%, the image is not maintained centered in the frame. Then, when I reset the 80% back to 100%, the image does not return back to its original position.

I don't know if the fact that I am using the 16:9 aspect ratio and cropped (zoomed) the image is creating the problem.

Gary

PTE Bug.zip

[fh1805]

Gary,

I've attempted to re-create this problem and have failed to do so. You mention that you have "cropped (zoomed) the image". It would be nice to be able to see the contents of the Animation tab showing the values before you made the global zoom change.

In my experience, confirmed by my test today, if you have applied some zoom to individual slides and then decide to use the Project Options|Screen feature to apply a global zoom to all the slides, this change over-rides your previous individual changes, it doesn't add to them.

Can you please confirm that, when you "cropped" the image, you did not inadvertently apply some Pan values as well? If you did, these will, at the very least, be muddying the waters so to speak.

regards,

Peter

[goddi]

Gary,

...Can you please confirm that, when you "cropped" the image, you did not inadvertently apply some Pan values as well? If you did, these will, at the very least, be muddying the waters so to speak.

regards,

Peter

===============

Peter,

Sorry I was not too clear about what I meant by "cropped" or "zoomed". I did not apply any animation or motion. No keyframes added. All I did was expand the image using the 'handles' of the image to fit the left/right edges of the 16:9 frame. I have attached a screenshot of the O&A Animation screen. There are some Pan and Zoom values but only as a result of repositioning the image.

Thanks for taking a look at this.

Gary

[goddi]

...Can you please confirm that, when you "cropped" the image, you did not inadvertently apply some Pan values as well? If you did, these will, at the very least, be muddying the waters so to speak.

regards,

Peter

================

Peter,

Ah...after a nights rest, I think I just saw the error of my ways. When I was returning the image from the 80% back to the original approximately 121%, I was putting in only 100%, thinking (not-thinking) that it would return to what the original position was. I should have input the 121% Sorry.

But now I see what else was bothering me. When you choose the '% of the slide to show...', it only affects the Zoom, not the Pan. Would it not be better to have the '% of the slide to show...' affect both the Zoom and the Pan? That would keep the image in the center of the frame.

Also, let me ask another question. When you as inputting a value for the '% of the slide to show' and click on OK (but not 'Set for Existing Slides'), I thought it would affect only the current slide you are looking at. It does not. The 'Set For Existing Slides' does affect all the images but you can not affect just the one image by clicking just 'OK'. Should you be able to affect just the one slide if you only click on 'OK'?

Gary

[fh1805]

Gary,

Last point first: you would simply use the Zoom control in the Animation tab if you want to affect only one image, wouldn't you?

Zoom operates equally all around the centre point of the image. The centre never moves during a zoom. For the centre point to move as well, there has to be a change in the Pan values. (Think you need another night's rest!!)

regards,

Peter

[goddi]

See replys below:

---------------

Gary,

Last point first: you would simply use the Zoom control in the Animation tab if you want to affect only one image, wouldn't you?

Yes, I understand that each image is zoomed individually. That is not what my problem is about. Let me explain again...

--------------------------

Zoom operates equally all around the centre point of the image. The centre never moves during a zoom. For the centre point to move as well, there has to be a change in the Pan values. (Think you need another night's rest!!)

I am not talking about the Zoom. My problem is only with the results when I change the '% of the Slide' from 100% to 80%; then try to simply revert back to the original image by resetting the '% of the Slide' back to 100%. With the example of an image that was stretched (or zoomed) out to fill the 16:9 frame (with some extending beyond the top of the frame), it does not return to the original position. It only comes part way down. I really am awake!!!

Ok, let me ask my other question another way. In the two cases in the Screen menu that have the choice of 'Set for Existing Slides', can these options be applied to just the current slide you have opened in O&A? The word 'Existing', to me, means all the slides. So if I skipped selecting that choice (Set for Existing Slides) and just said 'OK', I would think it would apply to only the current slide that is opened in O&A, but it does not. It only works for all the slides.

Gary

[nobeefstu]

Gary,

As for

Ok, let me ask my other question another way. In the two cases in the Screen menu that have the choice of 'Set for Existing Slides', can these options be applied to just the current slide you have opened in O&A? The word 'Existing', to me, means all the slides. So if I skipped selecting that choice (Set for Existing Slides) and just said 'OK', I would think it would apply to only the current slide that is opened in O&A, but it does not. It only works for all the slides

Since the current slide already exists ... clicking just OK will not apply the % setting to that slide.

If you want to apply the % setting to only a new single slide ... first make the setting in Project Options, confirm the action with OK, then make the new single slide (or any additional new slides). The % setting will be applied to all new slides created until you again change that % setting in Project Options. I dont recall any users wanting to apply the % setting to just a single slide ... but thats the beauty of PTE being very customizable to suit various user needs.

As answer to your other issue/question ... I need to read closer to all the details you describe.

[goddi]

Gary,

As for

Since the current slide already exists ... clicking just OK will not apply the % setting to that slide.

If you want to apply the % setting to only a new single slide ... first make the setting in Project Options, confirm the action with OK, then make the new single slide (or any additional new slides). The % setting will be applied to all new slides created until you again change that % setting in Project Options. I dont recall any users wanting to apply the % setting to just a single slide ... but thats the beauty of PTE being very customizable to suit various user needs.

As answer to your other issue/question ... I need to read closer to all the details you describe.

=================

nobeefstu... I get it now. Thanks. I never figured out that was the way it worked (not that I like the way it works). It always seemed to make sense that since you were in O&A with the single image viewed, that the 'OK' would apply to that one single image; and the 'Set for existing slides' meant all the other slides, except that one, would be affected. Thanks for the help.

I hope you can clarify my other question as to why it does not return to its original position when set back to 100%. Thanks much. Gary

[fh1805]

...I am not talking about the Zoom. My problem is only with the results when I change the '% of the Slide' from 100% to 80%; then try to simply revert back to the original image by resetting the '% of the Slide' back to 100%. With the example of an image that was stretched (or zoomed) out to fill the 16:9 frame (with some extending beyond the top of the frame), it does not return to the original position. It only comes part way down. I really am awake!!!

Gary,

But you are talking about Zoom; at present you just don't realise it. Try this simple little test. Set up a new project containing just two images. Leave one of these images alone and zoom the other to your 121% value that you found filled the screen area. Go into O&A and note their zoom values. Now use Project Options|Screen to set the 80% of slide value and Set for existing slides. Now go back into O&A and study the zoom values.

"% slide..." works by using the zoom value field. So, when you ask for 100% that is exactly what you get - all slides returned to their original unammended sizes. If you want them all back to your original size (=121%) then that is what you must code.

regards,

Peter

[goddi]

Gary,

..."% slide..." works by using the zoom value field. So, when you ask for 100% that is exactly what you get - all slides returned to their original unammended sizes. If you want them all back to your original size (=121%) then that is what you must code

regards,

Peter

===============

Peter,

I now see what you are saying. However, I don't like how it works. Lets say I have set a Zoom value of, say, 121.585 and the '% of the slide...' is at 100%. What happens now is that if you change the '% of the slide...' to 80%, the Zoom value also changes to 80%. What I expect to happen is the image size in the frame should change to 80%, while keeping the Zoom value of 121.585. So if you want to change it back to the original size, you don't have to remember the 121.585 figure, you just put in the 100% value in the '% of the slide'. The Zoom value should be independent of the '% of the slide' setting. Wouldn't this give us more flexibility???

Gary

[fh1805]

Gary,

It would. Unfortunately that isn't how it works. When you click on that button that says "Set for existing slides" it means exactly that - ALL of them!

I sort of agree with you. But thinking about your specific example there are at least three possible actions:

- reduce all images to 80% irrespective of previous values (i.e. how PTE works now)

- reduce all images except those already customized to 80% (i.e. the way you want it work)

- reduce all images to 80% taking notice of existing customization and applying this new change pro rata (i.e. reducing your 121.585 to 80% of its value = 97.268)

Several times I have felt that it would be useful to be able to "lock" a slide - but that then begs the question: which attributes do you want to lock? All of them? Only some of them? The ones that you want to lock might not be the ones that I want to lock. Every slide has dozens of attributes; all of a sudden the complexity is growing real fast!

regards,

Peter

[goddi]

Gary,

It would. Unfortunately that isn't how it works. When you click on that button that says "Set for existing slides" it means exactly that - ALL of them!

I sort of agree with you. But thinking about your specific example there are at least three possible actions:

- reduce all images to 80% irrespective of previous values (i.e. how PTE works now)

- reduce all images except those already customized to 80% (i.e. the way you want it work)

- reduce all images to 80% taking notice of existing customization and applying this new change pro rata (i.e. reducing your 121.585 to 80% of its value = 97.268)

Several times I have felt that it would be useful to be able to "lock" a slide - but that then begs the question: which attributes do you want to lock? All of them? Only some of them? The ones that you want to lock might not be the ones that I want to lock. Every slide has dozens of attributes; all of a sudden the complexity is growing real fast!

regards,

Peter

==========================

Peter,

It just does not make sense to me that, if you change a value of the '% of the Slide' to other than 100% and select "Set for existing slides", you can not go back to what you had by re-inputting 100%. I understand that these are complex matters and I don't know how people like Igor does what he does, but if something does not work intuitively, it needs fixing. Just my observation.

Thanks for the explanation.

Gary

[nobeefstu]

Gary,

Please remember that the % of Slide to Show only applies to the Main Image. If you want no effective change when using the % of Slide to Show setting of your Zoomed image ... you must add the image as a new Image Object in O&A and then Zoom to your needs.

What appears to me is that you are increasing the Zoom value of the image in O&A settings ... and then decreasing the Zoom value again of that same image by using % of Slide to Show. Its like adding 3 apples and then take 2 away ... why not just add 1 apple and save the time and effort ? This would lessen the confusion of settings being counter productive in your particular case.

[fh1805]

...but if something does not work intuitively, it needs fixing...

Gary,

All three options that I gave in my post above are equally intuitive. The one that is intuitive to you may not be intuitive to someone else - but one of the other two might be intuitive to that person.

regards,

Peter

[goddi]

Gary,

Please remember that the % of Slide to Show only applies to the Main Image. If you want no effective change when using % of Slide to Show of your Zoomed image ... you must add the image as a new Image Object in O&A and Zoom to your needs.

What appears to me is that you are increasing the Zoom value of the image in O&A settings ... and then decreasing the Zoom value again of that same image by using % of Slide to Show. Its like adding 3 apples and then take 2 away ... why not just add 1 apple and save the time and effort ?

============

Nobeefstu,

I am not too clear on what you think I am doing, so let me explain it in more detail. I have been know to get my apples and oranges mixed up.

I am now making my slideshows in the 16:9 aspect ratio to play on an LCD TV. So I bring in my images and I have to crop (expand) each image manually in O&A to bring the left and right edges of each image to match the left/right edges of the 16:9 frame in O&A. This gives me the opportunity to manually move the image up or down to lose whichever portion of the top or bottom of the image that is least interesting or makes a better crop. So this gives me a full 16:9 image of the cropped area.

Then, say, I play with the '% of the Slide' function and input 80% just to see what happens. And if I don't like it, I put it back to 100%. Now, every image that I have previously adjusted to fit the 16:9 frame has not been returned to its previous position. I have to go back to each and every image and reposition it. This does not make sense to me.

Each of the images that I initially cropped (zoomed) could have had a difference zoom setting so I'd have to address each and every image again to get it back to where I had it.

Does this make any more sense to why I think the current way it works can cause problems?

I just did a little more testing with this '% of the Slide' function. I now realize that the % change is from the original size, not the size I had resized it to. So if I had resized an image to 10%, and then changed the '% of the Slide' to 50%, it actually got larger (50% of the original size), not 50% of my 10% image.

Maybe there is a good reason for not working the way I'd like it to work, but this has been a good learning process. Thanks for your input.

Gary

Gary

[goddi]

Gary,

All three options that I gave in my post above are equally intuitive. The one that is intuitive to you may not be intuitive to someone else - but one of the other two might be intuitive to that person.

regards,

Peter

============

Peter,

Of course, I am talking about how my brain works. You can have a completely different intuitive experience. But if you happened to go through my workflow, you might see it differently. However, I see that the current way it works can cause problems (see my reply above to nobeefstu). When something can cause problems by simply trying a function and I have to go back and redo each image, I don't think that is a good thing.

Gary

Gary