MPEG4 for HDTV

[denwell]

Can anyone tell me the preferred MP4 settings (audio bit rate, framerate etc) for ouputting a 16:10 (1920x1200) PTE show for display via an HDTV (PAL)? I'm using the USB TV input.

I've done one recently (100+ large size slides 3:2 and audio MP3s) which took over 3hrs to render, but I can't remember the settings I used.The results were astonishingly good!

Now I've just tried another show (60 smaller, 500k, slides 1920x1200 + MP3, 5min) which rendered in 15mins but there is no video - just the audio! ( 1920x1200,30fps,44100sample rate, 256 bitrate and one-pass quality 100).

I guess the final output was too much for the TV!

Before I try out all of the other settings, custom and default, can anyone give me a shortcut to the optimum settings in PTE?

[xahu34]

I have a Samsung LE40B650 TV which has an internal media player for HD videos (AVI, MKV, MP4, ...). Here is my experience:

• Videos should not exceed the size of 1920x1080
  
• MP4-Videos generated with the PTE video builder show clipping, e.g. the three dark fields (values 0, 8, and 15) in the attached image are all shown equally in deep black. As it is said: PTE creates videos for PCs and MACs rather than for video players which typically expect a reduced luminance range (16 is used for black and 235 for white in the 8 Bit representation). So, I use an external encoder in order to generate the videos of my PTE shows.
  
• When creating full HD videos with my H.264 encoder (the open source encoder x264 that PTE uses, as well), I use the two pass option and a bitrate of about 10000; the frame rate is 24p, the Samsung media player is said to like 24p. I normally do not have fast animations in my shows. I also tried 50p without much success.
  

Regards,

Xaver

[denwell]

Thanks for that information Xaver.

I've experimented more and settled on an aspect ratio of 16:10, resolution 1280x800,24p and two passes @ 10,000 bitrate.

This combination gives me a great image on TV, so I'll stick with it for now.

Whilst a monitor image looks good - a 40inch TV images is just perfect for family viewing!

Thanks again

[Ronniebootwest]

If you are using 1280x800, then surely your images are not filling the screen and you are getting black borders. Why don't you use the format suggested by Xaver and fill your screen - it will look even better! (1920x1080)

Ron

[denwell]

Ron

I'm using 16:10 ratio to match my PC monitor's aspect ratio, and I find that on my Sony TV, PTE shows made in that ratio are displayed full height but have the two small black bands at either side due to the AR mismatch - this I can live with. The detail and clarity are more than acceptable.

I found that rendering 1920 x 1200 output seemed to be more than the TV could handle via the USB port.

I'm still experimenting though, and the TV's resident resolution is what I would seek to achieve.

Have you any recommendations to make regarding PTE settings?

DEN

[xahu34]

As Ron has already pointed out: When using 1280x800, you actually waste resources (as I think that your TV supports FullHD (1920x1080)). So, if you want to keep the aspect ratio of 16:10, you may generate your video using 1728x1080. Perhaps you may also choose 1920x1080, and PTE (hopefully) will automatically add black stripes on both sides. Take care that the images in your PTE project have an appropriate size, and have not been not resized to 1280x800.

Regards,

Xaver

[goddi]

I have a Samsung LE40B650 TV which has an internal media player for HD videos (AVI, MKV, MP4, ...). Here is my experience:...

[*]When creating full HD videos with my H.264 encoder (the open source encoder x264 that PTE uses, as well), I use the two pass option and a bitrate of about 10000; the frame rate is 24p, the Samsung media player is said to like 24p. I normally do not have fast animations in my shows. I also tried 50p without much success.

Regards,

Xaver

=====================

Xaver and Denwell,

I was curious about your recommendations for creating the H.264 files. I usually just use the defaults settings, so I created a duplicate of a show with your settings (only changed your settings to 16:9 and 1920x1080, to match how I made my default show). I played both, back and forth, over and over. But I could not detect any improvements. So I am wondering what do you see as the advantage of using your settings. I do see the disadvantage of creating a much larger file size with your settings. What am I missing? I have a Samsung UN40B600 LED, I think similar to yours.

One other observation. When I was trying out these 2 shows, but using my WD Media Player, the sound became 'unsynced' with the images. I figured out that when I tried to 'rewind' the MP4 show using the Player's remote, I noticed the point at which the 2nd music selection should have started, actually started a second or so after when it should have. This did not happen when the show was played on a thumb drive in the Samsung's USB port. I am curious how this can technically happen when using the WD Media Player. Any ideas?

Thanks... Gary

[davegee]

Den,

When you use 1280x800 is the HD TV Screen being filled (upscaling) or is there a black line all around?

DG

[xahu34]

Gary,

When I produced my first MP4 videos, the given settings produced quite good results. I think that two or more passes are (at least in principle) the better choice, as the encoder first looks at the whole video, take some notes, and then runs the final encoding process. I had the impression that a bitrate of 8000 or smaller did not produce as fine panorama pans as 10000; and I have read some recommendation of that kind in another slide show forum. I think that your results will depend on the animation used inside the show. If you get good results with other setting, please use them. I cannot claim to be an expert in this subject, and I am just happy that my videos are o.k. for me.

I have no idea about your problems with the WD player. I use the internal player in my TV which is optimized for playing HD videos at 24p (I think the same holds for the WD player, so try 24p). What do you mean by "the show was played on a thumb drive in the Samsung's USB port". Does your TV have an internal player for HD videos, as well?

Regards,

Xaver

[goddi]

Gary,

When I produced my first MP4 videos, the given settings produced quite good results. I think that two or more passes are (at least in principle) the better choice, as the encoder first looks at the whole video, take some notes, and then runs the final encoding process. I had the impression that a bitrate of 8000 or smaller did not produce as fine panorama pans as 10000; and I have read some recommendation of that kind in another slide show forum. I think that your results will depend on the animation used inside the show. If you get good results with other setting, please use them. I cannot claim to be an expert in this subject, and I am just happy that my videos are o.k. for me.

I have no idea about your problems with the WD player. I use the internal player in my TV which is optimized for playing HD videos at 24p (I think the same holds for the WD player, so try 24p). What do you mean by "the show was played on a thumb drive in the Samsung's USB port". Does your TV have an internal player for HD videos, as well?

Regards,

Xaver

============================

Xaver,

I have tried different setting for the creation of MP4s and haven't found any improvement from the default settings. Perhaps the additional settings are for certain circumstances that I have not run across yet...like heavy animation.

With my particular model of Samsung TV, it will recognize the MP4 file created in PTE (like yours?). So I can play the MP4 that I copied onto a thumb (flash) drive (or an external hard drive) and plugged into my Samsung's USB port. Not all Samsung TVs can do this. I had a list of those that could, but can't find it at the moment. It is a very nice feature. And actually, I like the Samsung's operation better than the WD Media Player box because it will allow rewinds and fast forward operations in a much smoother fashion.

Gary

Added later: I just found the reply I had received from Samsung on which units play the MP4 format:

"The units listed below will offer MP4 video playback from either a USB device or from your PC.

LCD: LN26C450 through LN46C750

LED: ALL LED TVs

Plasma: PN50C530 through PN63C8000."

[davegee]

I have now had a chance to assess for myself the USB facility on my new Sony HDTV for playing MPEG4 videos from a 1Gb USB memory key.

The first trial that I made (on my XP Desktop machine) played the music track but showed a black screen. The second trial (made on my Vista laptop) showed the picture and sound.

I deduced from this that my desktop does not have compliant video codecs - any advice on this welcomed. (MPEG4 plays OK in MPC on desktop but not on TV).

Having got the laptop MPEG4 working it was obvious that my original 3:2 show was being stretched to fit the 16:9 screen and I can find no way of playing a non-16:9 format MPEG4 and preserve its aspect ratio. The options are Wide and Smart and neither is acceptable.

I got around this by superimposing the 3:2 images on a 16:9 show. This resulted in a perfectly acceptable 3:2 show on my 16:9 screen with the obvious black bars on left and right sides. The down side of this is that the file size of my MPEG4 was appreciably bigger than the 3:2 version.

The moral - stick with 16:9 and accept the file size.

I am left with one "problem" - the white line "stroke" around the 3:2 format show disappears at the top and bottom of the screen image. More work to do on that - however if a 16:9 show is made with 16:9 images the white line is unnecessary and is not a problem.

I can't comment on the relative quality aspects of the MPEG4 vs the Laptop/HDMI generated EXE at the moment - I have yet to try it. I will say though, that the convenience of the USB input vs the laptop with all its wires etc is, I think, going to outweigh any quality differences between the two methods (if any exist).

Oh, by the way, it also shows TV programmes pretty good - HD programmes are superb.

DG