Igor - another request

[boxig]

Hi Igor,

We have "Run application after last slide" but what if user close show by

using "Esc" ?

Can you add new option: "Run application when show is closed" ?

Thanks

Granot

[Gérard de Lux]

May I say that I don't undestand what it would be used for ? If the user wants to close the show, he wants to quit, not to see something else beyond his control. Or ?

[boxig]

Gérard

Since we can run some utilities to enhance the show, and some are running hidden from users view, we want to close them or cancel the change they make when show is finish. Usually for win98 there is no problem but newer operating systems act different. So I think it can help members who are making pte related utilities to know they have this option in case they want to run a file when show is closed.

here is theoretic example: If you run another exe (not a pte) in a windowed show, it will probably show your mouse corsur even if it was hidden in the show. To prevent this we can run another utility but we want to bring back the mouse corsur when show finish. Being working with Marco on this issue while trying to improve the flash utility, he had some problems, which gave me the idea that having this optional feature can only help.

This is the main reason but I'm sure there can be some other uses.

[mannybr2003]

May I just air my thoughts about the importance of not using the ESC to abort a program? I know this has been a common way used in most executables to terminate program operation, but no one seems to balk about it though it has often affected many other programs to suddenly exit thus preventing the program using it from finishing its intended function or purpose. What if someone use PTE not just for photographic purposes, but say for some highly useful military or scientific switching? Then when someone presses the ESC it affects not only the PTE project, but maybe some other underlying programs that are made using other programs or maybe another PTE project. Earlier this year I suggested maybe the early way of terminating a PTE program may be controlled another way other than the ESC. Maybe by pressing the X as default, which is to be assigned by the makers of PTE. It was just my suggestion. This way, not only those other programs made by other programs will be protected from being suddenly crashed, but also utilities provided us by Granot, which plays a great role in program controls and effects. It's just a suggestion. I guess everyone will benefit from it. And that way, there will be no more need of creating a routine to trigger the start of a program to begin when someone presses the ESC button, just to turn off the underlying utility programs. Would it be more correct to say, let me request that the ESC key be disabled from being used for escape operations for PTE projects, and in its place use X as a default escape key. This way not many of our other windows programs running together will not be affected by pressing the ESC key ones or twice, when our only purpose is to Escape the operation of our project?

[alrobin]

Manny,

One thing to consider in assessing this request is that there are thousands of PTE shows already created where "Esc" is used to exit. It would be very time-consuming, if not impossible, to change all these shows so they wouldn't interfere with underlying programs due to improper use of the "Esc" key. Also, if we change the escape mechanism now, IMO, it would be confusing to users who have been relying on "Esc" to exit.

There are already other methods for exiting ("close" buttons, navigation bar), so perhaps these could be used by makers who are worried about the effect of pressing "Esc".

As you said, "Esc" is the industry "standard" for this operation. so changing it could make things confusing for some people. Also, I have never experienced a problem with it myself.

I have no objection to an option allowing an individual maker to disable "Esc", but I would hate to lose "Esc" as the default. What do you think?

[LumenLux]

The "perils" of using escape are new to me - But I think on balance, I would agree with Al's conclusion.

[Gérard de Lux]

Thank you; now I understand better the reasons for Granot's original request.

As for the disabling of the "Esc" key, I too share Al's conclusion.

[Michel]

Can you add new option: "Run application when show is closed" ?

Granot,

it's a very good idea, only as an option.

We can also play many other things...with PTE to make it better.

I know that you think of...

[Michel]

Another request:

shadow for a small picture ( in the window objects) as an object.

I asked to Igor...many users ask to me for that !

[mannybr2003]

<quote>

One thing to consider in assessing this request is that there are thousands of PTE shows already created where "Esc" is used to exit. It would be very time-consuming, if not impossible, to change all these shows so they wouldn't interfere with underlying programs due to improper use of the "Esc" key. Also, if we change the escape mechanism now, IMO, it would be confusing to users who have been relying on "Esc" to exit.

</quote>

Al,

PTE projects that had already been completed will not be affected with implementation of a new way to escape a program. What I am after is the present and future usefulness and reliability of PTE. IMHO PTE have more uses that its original purposes in its present state. Just as Boxig is asking that something may be done inside PTE so that his utility programs will be closed also when someone suddenly aborts a running PTE program when someone presses the ESC in panic. He is asking it not for his own self, but for us who are using his and other makers' utilities to work along with a PTE project. To site an example, I made a PTE project. Then in the middle of its operation, someone who I submitted my project (say a customer) noticed the pc has trouble displaying instantly, the customer might resort into suddenly pressing the ESC. What the customer doesn't know is that there's a couple of utilities such as Boxig's that are also running underneath. When the customer presses the ESC, all these utilities running underneath, which I or someone applied on the PTE project will remain in operation although the PTE project is already aborted. The result is a big 'embarrassment' to me who made or presented this PTE project because it appears I have no control over my project, that the show is over but its other gears are still running.

Since to create a routine to control Boxig's utilities to stop is a difficult task to do, then the only course to prevent users from creating this embarrassment is to disable the Escape key. Everyone of us who use the computer see the X letter in the right corner of window screens everyday, and so is used to clicking on it in the right top corner. Since that is a regular windows screen we see the X. But when we create a PTE project, it is up to us where we put the X and assign Exit to it. But many users who panic don't press the X, thinking the program is not functioning, when in most cases it is only busy trying to retrieve every other part of the program before it could work, specially when we assign to PTE that the music or pictures display in 'random order'. Now, if the Escape key is dis-abled, the user cannot create the embarrassment to his self. Among the options he could do first is to dis-able to programs that are running behind the scene by pressing ALT-TAB, and choosing those programs he needs to exit first. Once this is done, then there is nothing to worry of pressing the X to exit the main program.

<quote>

There are already other methods for exiting ("close" buttons, navigation bar), so perhaps these could be used by makers who are worried about the effect of pressing "Esc". </quote>

I understand we all provide these buttons to press for convenience and as normal way of controlling the programs we provide. But when the user panics, they don't click on them but instantly presses the ESC button, thus revealing more troubles about the program to the audience concerning his presentation tool, in this case our PTE project. So if the project maker would only remind the user to press, say Alt-X as a LAST RESORT, then the embarrassment could still be minimized. But aside from using say Alt-X as a default, we could still program the letter x (simply letter x) to have 'total' control over the operation of Exit. I say 'total' to mean that maybe we could first have access to the plug-ins of Boxig to have them turned off with buttons he would provide in his utilities before we completely shut down our PTE project. It's just an idea. The thing might not concern most of us but to me it's my long time wish a copy I would have: one with the ESC key permanently dis-abled in PTE projects, and instead an Alt-X be used as default, and yet the letter X could still be programmed within the PTE Maker.

In several cases, I use PTE Maker for main menu and for sub-menus for my clients because it is very easy to use in creating menus. You can put a menu just in every slide in PTE. The buttons I use when pressed, serves as launching pads for different windows programs such as movies, karaoke, games, other utilities. My clients doesn't want to exit my programs with these programs still running when my PTE project is already closed. They want to see it the way they exit Windows. So I have to find a way to keep them from exiting thru ESC. I have to provide the buttons within my PTE project to exit the proper way.

[Michel]

And with CTRL + .... for quit in this case ?

Yes, we must be able to leave a slide show at any moment.

[mannybr2003]

I guess we welcome the fact that most windows programs are not easily turned off by pressing ESC key. We can't turn off the Windows itself by pressing ESC, nor our maker of PTE projects, and almost every windows program: Excel, MMB, whatever commercial program we buy - we cannot exit them by pressing ESC. I guess the PTE project we create should not differ because they are just another software.

I'm not really sure if repeatitive aborting of programs affects the hard drive to cause it to be fragmented. If this is true, then dis-abling the ESC key could help prevent PTE projects from fragmenting the storage.

[alrobin]

Manny,

As I indicated in my previous post, if Igor wants to build in an option for someone to disable "esc", then I would not oppose it, particularly since you, and possibly others, obviously feel a need for it.

However, I would object to "esc" disabled being the default, as from then on, whenever someone made a new show and forgot to check "enable esc", there would be a flood of complaints from people used to PTE who would hit "esc" only to find that nothing happened.

Also, I fail to see the real advantage of "X" over "esc" as an exit device - first there may be other uses for "x" in the utility being used, and secondly, it is just as easy to hit "x" by mistake as it is to press "esc".

Also, if one can instruct the users to use "x" instead of "esc", surely one could just as easily instruct them not to use "esc" in those cases where underlying utilities need to be activated first. My opinion, anyway. Please let me know if there is something I am missing in my logic here.

[mannybr2003]

I understand Al, you mentioned earlier that you agree for the ESC dis-abled as an option.

What I am after is finding a solution to this problem which Boxig is enlightening us, which I'm sure we see.

Maybe a better alternative is that the PTE Maker would be programmed to cause every project to detect when someone presses the ESC key, to open up a dialogue asking are you sure? - the ff. plug-in modules are still working. Uncheck the buttons first to close them, then press OK, Exit. But this will give more work for Igor to think about: how to dis-able Boxig or anyones' running program behind the scene to cease operation after the PTE is already aborted since they are running independent of PTE.

[alrobin]

Sure, I'd go along with that.

As long as it is optional on the part of the maker - in which case if the maker didn't care, and his or her show didn't use any other "ff" utilities, then "Esc" would still be left as the default "exit" with no annoying "are you sure" messages.

[mannybr2003]

I guess this is my final say to solve the problems of Exiting plug-ins before or after Exiting the PTE show. All that a user have to do is press Alt-Tab then choose the plug-in or any program he wishes to close and press its close button. I think that is the most painless no brainer way to do it. That way we can play anytime with the ESC key. Just keep pressing it.

[mannybr2003]

<quote>So I think it can help members who are making pte related utilities to know they have this option in case they want to run a file when show is closed.</quote>

I would say, we can ask PTE Maker to let's say a user press X as a disguise to Exit the program. And yet the created PTE project will actually end. However, in PTE there is an option there where you can close the PTE project yet coninue another program to run, say whatever .exe or you can cut and paste a javascript for popping up a window and put it inside an html and save it as an html document. Your pte project is already close, but your html window created by a javascript is there popped up showing you a message with or without a hyperlink.

[nobeefstu]

I think the ESC key feature works just fine ... its pretty much a universally accepted practice. ESC only closes the active window open (or window that has current focus). If a user gets click happy on the ESC key ... then each relative window that gains focus will ultimately get closed. However not all programs will close by ESC ... sometimes the programmer diables the ESC route or traps the ESC key.

If some other Key function is enabled ... we would have to someway convey this function to the user at the start of the Show. This would make more work and things a little ugly from presentation design perspective

As Al states, I too dont want any messages " Asking" me if its OK or am I sure I want to exit.

Note: I understand Boxigs request and useful need for his posted option. Since we have the ability to run a external program at PTE close ... this would make it possible to run the external program even if the PTE Show is ESC or closed prior to it normal ending. The current or existing condition does not allow this to happen if we close prior to the shows ending

[mannybr2003]

<quote>We have "Run application after last slide" but what if user close show by

using "Esc" ?

Can you add new option: "Run application when show is closed" ?</quote>

I just noticed this is a request that is asking that a program execute when one presses the ESC key, something similar to one I suggested today somewhere in this thread. I don't have a say about it.