What is Audio Visual

[Barry Beckham]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/a9923fh00zhjw9g/Opening%20Address.zip

[BootZilla]

Barry -

Right on the money.

Greg

[trailertrash]

I was just getting into that when it stopped. Really enjoying it too.

[Barry Beckham]

Ah, sorry about that. I just wanted something to fill 5 minutes so I had to make something that was short and to the point, but included what I wanted to say. I have 10 minutes and wanted to set the scene with that short slide show and then show a 5 minute sequence. They just about do that perfectly.

I am trying to make sure I stay on time during a days seminar, so we cover all the topics I have listed we would cover.

[paulziets]

Barry,

I need to play this intro to myself every time I complete a show and then review my work again.

Paul

[xahu34]

A nice sequence! I like it, in particular the remarks on "false praise", as this is what you often get in this forum

Regards,

Xaver

[trailertrash]

A nice sequence! I like it, in particular the remarks on "false praise", as this is what you often get in this forum

Regards,

Xaver

Couldn't you also call it encouragement. Especially in the case of someone of my level?

[xahu34]

Couldn't you also call it encouragement. Especially in the case of someone of my level?

Sorry, but I think that there are two sides of the same coin. If you only obtain praise (more or less), as it seems to be usual in this forum, you will never improve. If (for example) your synchronization is bad, why not be happy to have someone who tells you. Let me recommend to go the hard way

Regards,

Xaver

[Barry Beckham]

You need a mixture of both encouragement and honest feedback, but if you try to do this, you run a great risk of causing offense. Typing a response is not like talking to somebody in person. You cannot get across your body language or sincerity in a forum thread and they are important parts of any human contact. Members should assume the best intentions with any comments made, not start off assuming the comments are meant to be hurtful or insulting. Then, as in all advice, we can take it or leave it. That is the authors ultimate choice.

I have done a fair amount of judging and I always want to start with the positive aspects of any image or slide show, then move on towards what was not so good. Where that all falls down is where you are struggling at the start to find anything positive to say at all . What happens then is most good folk say nothing. Anyone brave enough to stick their head above the trench, risks getting it knocked off by the gang.

If you want honest feedback, I have come to believe that it has to be annonymous. In the creating slide show section there is a pinned idea that at the time, I went into print to say I was't too happy with. Looking back at it with recent experiences in mind, perhaps I was wrong and the way described by ADB is the only way honest feedback can be given on a forum.

It does seem that some people can turn being offended into an art form.

[trailertrash]

OK, I speak only for myself. Lets make that clear at the outset. When I post an image or an AV, I do so in the hope that the feedback I get will provide me with the information I need to improve it and myself. I've listened to some judges who would either send you into a coma or those who [iMHO] really shouldn't be up there.

In this forum [i'm getting into dangerous territory here] There is an appalling LACK of feedback. The reasons why have been done to death on other threads, but in the final analysis that teaches me nothing!

When I came here after finding PTE and deciding that this was how I wanted to showcase my work, I thought this forum would teach me how to improve both my photographic skills [which I admit have never been great] and my AV skills [which I admit have never been great]. I have been both pleased and disappointed with the results. Pleased when the FB tells me how to improve by giving me the knowledge to use the programme to make the AV better in the final presentation and disappointed by the lack of FB in the first place.

Now here's what I find odd. The same people comment/advise all the time!!!! Where are all the other forum members? I look at as many shows as I can and have in the past tried to comment on as many as possible, but my enthusiasm has diminished somewhat simply because I think to myself " What's the point in posting?". If I need info I use the general section and the help is freely given. That teaches me what I need and is greatly appreciated. I don't want anonymous FB, I want and need honest FB that will make me better at what I'm trying to do. ....Simples.

[8321]

Dear Barry,

First some praise:

Your steam train shots are beautiful.

I didn't hear one lip smack.

Then some criticism:

You need a question mark after What is audio visual

The sharp breath intakes between sentences annoyed me more and more as the advert went on (and so easy to edit out)

Your sibilance is almost getting to be a problem

The synchronisation of text, images and monologue could be improved near the beginning.

ANONYMOUS

[Barry Beckham]

Dear Annon.

Well, thank you for your comments, I never thought of myself as a steam train photographer and didn't think I did enough of them to warrant the term beautiful, but don't look a gift horse in the mouth I say.

Sharp intakes of breath, now that is interesting and now you point it out I can hear it myself, but its not easy to edit out, not between sentances as it just makes the flow wrong. One of the problems I have had fed back to me is that some laptop users said the sound volume needed to be higher. Some laptops do have weak volumes, I have one myself, so I increased the volume a little. Then, it will pick up every little sound, even the creak of my chair.

I will investigate doing something about that, even if its to move the mike up a bit away from the lips.

Grammar, never been my strong point, but then those attending the days seminar are not there for an English course, so I will let that one go this time.

You have actually proved a great point as well. That when we put together anything creative there is a mist that comes down over our senses and stops us for seeing what others see. (or hear as the case may be) It stops us from ending our show at 5 minutes and we end up with a 14 minute one. Its the same mist that prevents us from knowing when to stop a Photoshop manipulation when it was good and we continue on until its, well less than good. Its the same mist that tells us we can put a poor image in our slide show, but if we move it around a lot, we hope people won't notice the crap picture and marvel at the animation skills.

Its why honest feedback is essential, but even when we get it and I have accepted yours is genuine, it can easily be written in a way that makes you wonder if it isn't just another pop.

Trailertrash

Where are all the other forum members?

Come on, you know the answer to that already. They are keeping their head down, because if the senior members of this forum are all singing the praises of a slide show or a demo, the last thing they will do is to write that they don't agree.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

SIBILANCE My God, I had to look that one up, however it seems to have various unrelated meanings, a bit like PARENT & CHILD See the attachment.

Yachtsman1.

[trailertrash]

Trailertrash

Where are all the other forum members?

Come on, you know the answer to that already. They are keeping their head down, because if the senior members of this forum are all singing the praises of a slide show or a demo, the last thing they will do is to write that they don't agree.

Well thats a tragic state of affairs.

Anyway. Are you doing a full version of that intro, cause I for one would welcome it.

Andrew

[8321]

Dear Annon.

...

You have actually proved a great point as well. That when we put together anything creative there is a mist that comes down over our senses...

Spot on!

Anon only has 2 n's.

OED Sibilance = hissing, sounded with a hiss (esp. of letter or set of letters, as s, sh from Latin sibilare hiss.

A

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Bit like a lisp??? I was off school the day they did latin

Yachtsman1.

[fh1805]

...Typing a response is not like talking to somebody in person. You cannot get across your body language or sincerity in a forum thread and they are important parts of any human contact.

Barry,

How very true that is. And on a forum such as this where English is not the first language for many of the members, the challenges of getting across the feedback without offending or confusing are even greater.

...Where are all the other forum members?...

Andrew,

Consider this for a moment, and this is only my opinion,... To do a thorough job of providing feedback I find it necessary to watch a sequence several times; because some points strike me only after repeated viewing. I also need to prepare several drafts of my comments, partly for the reason I've mentioned above in my response to Barry and partly to ensure that I cover all the points that I want to in the depth that I want to. It can take up to an hour for me to prepare feedback on just one sequence. That is a big slice of time. I can rarely make that level of commitment.

If I'm standing in front of the audience and commenting unscripted, after just one viewing, on a selection of their work, I can spread out the points I want to make across all the sequences; and I can use body language, humour, even a quick demonstration to get my messages across. It's a totally different ball game.

Bear in mind, also, that some members (those for whom English is not their native tongue) may be reluctant to express their views about a sequence because of the need, on this forum, to post in English. Having occasionally participated on the Diapostif.net forum in French, (a language in which I am far from fluent) I know how big a challenge it is simply reading and understanding a foreign language forum - let alone trying to reply with meaningful responses.

regards,

Peter

[xahu34]

Trailertrash

Where are all the other forum members?

Come on, you know the answer to that already. They are keeping their head down, because if the senior members of this forum are all singing the praises of a slide show or a demo, the last thing they will do is to write that they don't agree.

Indeed, there are a few senior members of the said kind (singing praises all the time) who mainly concentrate on technical aspects, and who make people believe that programming rotating cubes and other technical stuff were the high art of AV, which certainly is not the case.

The UK seems to have a strong AV scene, and most of its members use PTE (which is not the case in the German language area). But these people do not seem to give a significant input to this forum

Regards,

Xaver

[Barry Beckham]

Trailertrash

I hadn't planned on anything longer, as I said I need an intro and a slide show to last just 10 minutes for a coming days seminar on PTE and I now have that. I rarely record things like this for a seminar day, preferring to just prepare the images and talk live, after all, the rest of the day isn't scripted so I have to get through that. I may still do the intro live, but having produced that little sequence it also helps me to keep the content straight in my mind.

I may go into more detail later in the year when PTE 7 comes out as I will then start to re-record all my PTE disks and I find I am using PTE more and more for introductions and also a lot of the content too.

I think that the better option may be to do what I already do on my disks which people do seem to like. That is to break down the complexities of AV into sections keeping each one as short as possible. You can just imagine expanding that "What is AV" to include choices of images and music in more detail and you could be at 20 minutes before you know it.

[cjdnzl]

SIBILANCE My God, I had to look that one up, however it seems to have various unrelated meanings, a bit like PARENT & CHILD See the attachment.

Yachtsman1.

Sorry Eric, but your thesaurus has misled you a bit there. Your screenshot shows that the thesaurus could not find the word 'sibilance' and offered a range of near matches, including 'siblings' - but that is not to say that the meaning of 'sibilance' is 'siblings'. They are in fact two completely different words.

Also, the proper word when referring to high-frequency sounds of speech is usually 'sibilants' and not 'sibilance' so the poster that used the word did not get it quite right there.

Sorry about the pedantry there.

[cjdnzl]

Dear Barry,

First some praise:

Your steam train shots are beautiful.

I didn't hear one lip smack.

Then some criticism:

You need a question mark after What is audio visual

The sharp breath intakes between sentences annoyed me more and more as the advert went on (and so easy to edit out)

Your sibilance is almost getting to be a problem

The synchronisation of text, images and monologue could be improved near the beginning.

ANONYMOUS

I agree to some extent about the sibilants in the recorded speech, but I do not find the intakes of breath very noticeable. I wonder if the frequency response of your replay gear is not accentuating the high frequencies unduly?

However, there can be a problem with persons who have false teeth. False teeth cause a number of problems with speech, causing odd sharp sibilants and even whistles when pronouncing 's' and 'c' sounds, and from close listening to Barry's audio I wonder if he has false teeth. I apologise if this sounds a bit personal.

Colin

[Barry Beckham]

Colin, thats OK and I don't but I made a tutorial today and listened to it for the breaths and I have come to the conclusion that its just my talking style. I tried various places for the mike, but it doesn't alter things at all. I can be more aware of it while recording, but its not easy to change your natural speaking voice and record a tutorial while thinking about the technical aspects all at the same time

Those that don't like my style will not become customers, I will have to live with that I think, not much esle I can do. You can edit some out, but not all.

My wife tells me I breath heavy when concentrating and thats what your doing when recording stuff like this.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Sorry Eric, but your thesaurus has misled you a bit there. Your screenshot shows that the thesaurus could not find the word 'sibilance' and offered a range of near matches, including 'siblings' - but that is not to say that the meaning of 'sibilance' is 'siblings'. They are in fact two completely different words.

Also, the proper word when referring to high-frequency sounds of speech is usually 'sibilants' and not 'sibilance' so the poster that used the word did not get it quite right there.

Sorry about the pedantry there.

I think you may have missed my point there, I had a pop at the terms mother & child a few days ago, about them not having a direct relationship with things AV or photography and which confused me & possibly other newcomers trying to master the complexities of PTE. Saying that, sibilants, I had never heard the term before, my secondary mod' didn't have latin on the curriculum. Not that I miss it, only when watching University Challenge or Mastermind

Yachtsman. Ah well, Tempis Fugit, must have breakfast.

[Lin Evans]

Hi Xaver,

I doubt if there are any members - senior or otherwise - who "make" people believe that technical applications of PTE are in any way "the high art of AV." I believe that the tool is used by forum members for a variety of purposes which include, but are certainly not limited to serious Audio Visual presentations. Each user of PTE has their own purposes and individual preferences in creating a slideshow or a demonstration. Some of the forum members are perhaps qualified to critique the finer points of Audio Visual presentations via their experience with shows and "contests," while others have no relevant experience in that arena. I would place myself in the later category. I can only comment on what I like or dislike about a particular presentation, and I never try to give advice where my advice would only be "opinion" and have no real value to the presenter. I think there are a sufficient number of forum participants who do give critical commentary to help those who have an interest in improving their skills in AV presentations. There are also a sufficient number who are willing to lend their experience and skills in helping those who are interested in "technical aspects" which some forum visitors and regulars seem to want to learn.

I believe that we must keep in mind that not all users really "care" about the fine art of AV creation and presentation. Some only want to create simple displays of their photography for family and friends while other simply like to "play" with ideas and use PTE as an enjoyable hobby pursuit. The nice thing about this very fine tool is that it has appeal to many different people for many different reasons. As I've said in the past - I think those who post links to their presentations should indicate whether or not they welcome critical commentary. If there is no indication from the poster that he/she wants "advice" about how the presentation could be improved, then responders should limit their comments to perhaps whether or not they "enjoyed" the presentation. A lack of response would simply indicate non-interest.

If each of us who regularly use the forum, would lend their own skills to helping those who "want" help to achieve their goals, then everyone might benefit. Of course it would be useful if one could be certain that the "teacher" actually had the skills they were offering others. This could be demonstrated by having each post some of their own demonstrations and work so that others could see the results and know that the advice they were getting was valid. I'm reminded often of certain photography forums I've visited for years where some of the most critical people who tell others what's wrong with their photographs have never posted one of their own for critical commentary. I've always believed that the "proof is in the pudding." As an example, I would never take "lessons" from a martial arts instructor who couldn't put me down quickly. I want to "know" that what I'm being taught is valid and not just someone's considered opinion.

Just my thoughts......

Best regards,

Lin

Indeed, there are a few senior members of the said kind (singing praises all the time) who mainly concentrate on technical aspects, and who make people believe that programming rotating cubes and other technical stuff were the high art of AV, which certainly is not the case.

The UK seems to have a strong AV scene, and most of its members use PTE (which is not the case in the German language area). But these people do not seem to give a significant input to this forum

Regards,

Xaver

[8321]

"However, there can be a problem with persons who have false teeth. False teeth cause a number of problems with speech, causing odd sharp sibilants and even whistles when pronouncing 's' and 'c' sounds, and from close listening to Barry's audio I wonder if he has false teeth. I apologise if this sounds a bit personal." - Colin

I listened with small auditorium-quality powered Rokit 5-inchers through a semi-professional PreSonus mixer and a 2011-year model desktop (and not a laptop with a built-in squeaker). It really does sound like false teeth.

Jeff

PS (postscriptum in latin)

If we can't take the mikey out of one another in friendly, non-degoratory, non-aggressive ways every so often, it is a sad AV world. At the same time some of us may learn a little about human behaviour. I certainly have.