Changes in Slide Duration

[Picsel]

Igor,

it seems that this specific problem is linked with clear pagefile at shutdown validated or not under XP,

if validated = 2/5 then 2/7

if not validated = always 2/7

Best regards

Daniel.

It seems that could be only a coincidence, some other tests achieved with another PC /W7 gives for duration default values either 2/7 either 2/5 depending on initial conditions of PTE and if "Show total duration" has been ticked or unticked on a previous project even if this previous project has been closed and even if PTE has been restarted...

Daniel

[davegee]

Igor,

Do you have an answer on this?

DG

[Igor]

First of all, thank you for your comments and suggestions!

Please try an updated version 7.0.1 Beta:

http://www.wnsoft.com/files/test/picturestoexe-setup-701-beta.exe

It solves several problems related with the new slide duration.

We need to separate temporal bugs from logical problems (flaws in design).

Personally we like the new time system (in version 7.0). We find it simple and suitable for various cases. I really sorry that it caused such problems and misunderstandings. Probably it was difficult to understand this problem because I don't create complex AVs or have different working style. How to separate real logical problems from habits?

In my suggested solution, a slide that was based on a video clip could have both transitions automatically locked to it. That would then preserve this behaviour if the slide got moved within the sequence.

Peter, thanks for this interesting idea! I didn't think about this.

I think PicturesToExe should have some solution for video slides and for slides with complex animation (where keypoints require fixed full slide duration).

And I see one of the following:

1. Use new slide duration conception introduced in v7.0 (by default or not - it's a another question).

2. The idea of Peter. Add a new option for a slide - "Keep full duration of this slide". And enable this option automatically for video clips added as slides to the Slide list. On first glance it works, but it's one more option for user and different behaviour of slides within one project.

3. Implement one change to the old time mode of slide duration (as in version 6.5). After re-ordering of slides with video clips analize slides before this change. If a video clip had exactly same duration with full slide duration then perform automatical time correction for this slide only. The benefit of this idea - it's an automatic solution and applicable for slides with video clips only. No new options.

Please let me know what you think?

[davegee]

Igor,

I think that the new slide duration conception introduced in v7.0 needs to be ONLY possible where video is inserted.

If there is NO video it needs to DEFAULT to the old time mode of slide duration (as in version 6.5).

This would avoid the anomalies seen when mutiple slide timings are changed in Customise Slide (with the current V7 slide duration concept).

DG

P.S. Your changes and/or bug fixes in V7.0.1 have not cured the problem.

Initial settings 1.5 seconds Transition / 8 seconds duration.

Time line shows correctly.

I ask for the first three slides to be changed to 8 seconds with NO Transition (in Customise Slide) and I get 6.5 seconds duration.

This is the same as before.

[Picsel]

First of all, thank you for your comments and suggestions!

Please try an updated version 7.0.1 Beta:

http://www.wnsoft.com/files/test/picturestoexe-setup-701-beta.exe

It solves several problems related with the new slide duration.

Please let me know what you think?

Hi Igor,

I've made some tests with this 701 beta. I agree with Dave the main problem is not solve and even it seems there is a new bug.

- validate the option "Keep full slide duration"

- begin a new project

- put 3 slides on the timeline

- specify 4/9 duration (effect/slide) on the main tab of project options, each

- select one slide (n° 2 or 3) and click on "customize slide) without modifying parameters, click on OK button and you will see that duration of n-1 slide is incremented each time you click on the OK button of Customize slide.

To answer your question,

personnaly I think that a slide cannot be linked with the both effects that will lead to new misleading. I agree with Jill proposal (see my previous post on this subject).

Just a remark, the people who are used to edit video know perfectly well that the ending transition duration must be deducted of the movie duration itself. So if necessary to make some different duration calculations for PTE why not only when video clips are inserted , I could agree with Dave on this point.

Best regards

Daniel

[jkb]

Hi Igor,

I also have been doing some tests & the 'Keep Full Slide Duration' option still does not work.

Opening & amending a project created in ver 6.5 with ver 7.0,1 gives errors in timings.

Also creating a new project & amending it in Ver 7.0.1 gives errors.

Rather than trying to explain these verbally I have taken screen grabs & put them into an exe with extra comments. So hopefully it is easier to see what is happening. Low res images to keep the size down. Zip file 1.4mb Use the arrow keys to move through it.

I still cannot understand the need for these changes as using the existing timing procedure works perfectly well for both slides & video. Surely it is just creating an extra lot of work & programing to change it.

Video is just another object & it is up to the user to set how the video appears with transitions in/out.

Yes with the existing timings the video will fade in with the default transition time. But it will stop playing before the next transition starts. So the user needs to set how/when the next object appears, be that another video or a slide. But surely that is just the same as it always has been for any object/animation.

The main problem will be with the sound from the video, as having two videos merging will also cause the sound to overlap. Or even with video going into a slide the sound will continue but the image will be fading out & this could sound awful if the slide has its own sounds or there is a background sound track. Being able to alter the background/video sound levels is far more important than automatically putting a transition at the end of a video.

Can I suggest that we leave the timings as they have always been, if someone wants videos to overlap it is extremely easy to just move the next object up the timeline a bit. Trying to program for it is causing too many problems.

Please, Please, Please can you also reinstate the two icons for full screen view of file/slide list.

These are very useful for beginners & I also use them when projecting club single image competition entries.

It is so much easier to click on an icon than having to remember F keys & beginners wouldn't know what to use or where to find them.

Hope you can sort out these problems soon.

Jill

[Igor]

Well, we did it. Please try updated version 7.0.1 Beta:

http://www.wnsoft.com/files/test/picturestoexe-setup-701-beta.exe

1. Option "Keep full slide duration" turned off by default now. New users will use old timing system (as in version 6.5).

2. This option ("Keep full slide duration") has been moved to the main window of PicturesToExe.

3. We've fixed all logical bugs if you use this new timing mode.

Please let me know what you think? I hope this change will please all users

[jkb]

Hi Igor,

I have just downloaded the new beta & done a very quick test.

It appears that the switch 'Keep Full Slide Duration' now works the other way around!

So ticked it follows the old rules & unticked it is the new, which sadly still isn't working.

I will do some more tests, but initial results still appear to be the same in that slides overlap.

Jill

[davegee]

Jill,

I'm not quite sure what you are seeing but when I open the new Beta the two "Timed Points" options are unticked and it behaves as per V6.5.

With both options ticked it behaves as per V7.0.0.

BUT when I change a group of slides in Customise Slide it now behaves EXACTLY as I would expect - If I ask for three slides of 8 seconds with no transition, that's what I get.

DG

[jkb]

I'm not quite sure what you are seeing but when I open the new Beta the two "Timed Points" options are unticked and it behaves as per V6.5.

With both options ticked it behaves as per V7.0.0.

Dave,

Not sure what you mean by the two 'Timed Points'?

This beta now has 'Keep Full Slide Duration' on the bottom of the main screen.

When unticked it behaves exactly as version 7, slides include the outgoing transition & all the associated problems they had before. Nothing seems to have changed.

When ticked it behaves as version 6.5, slides times are as expected.

I have tried this on both my main pc - Windows XP & on my laptop - Vista & the problems do not seem to have been cured, only the switch is reversed.

Jill

[davegee]

Jill,

It was late last evening and I have now tried it again.

Something is NOT right.

It will take me a while to sort out just what is not right but when I checked again this morning the aspect that concerned me (the timing anomaly) has been corrected.

In a 1.5 / 5 / 1.5 situation, when I ask for 8 sec duration and no transition, that's what I get.

DG

[davegee]

I had a wierd situation earlier this morning where things were different to the way they were last evening.

However, I have closed PTE and re-opened and now can't replicate the "problem".

When I start a new project with "KEEP FULL SLIDE DURATION" unticked and settings of 8 sec duration and 1.5 sec transition I get the "standard" V6,5 configuration where 6 slides = 48 seconds and only one transition is included per 8 sec slide.

When I start a new project with "KEEP FULL SLIDE DURATION" ticked and settings of 8 sec duration and 1.5 sec transition I get the V7 configuration where 6 slides = 40.5 seconds and both transitions are included per 8 sec slide.

If I now go to Customize slide and ask for 8 sec duration and no transition, that's what I get - 6 slides = 48 sec.

Sorry for the confusion above.

Previous advice still holds ( I think!!) - DO NOT change the status of the "Keep Full Slide Duration" mid stream - it should be either OFF or ON depending on your project.

DG

[Picsel]

When unticked it behaves exactly as version 7, slides include the outgoing transition & all the associated problems they had before. Nothing seems to have changed.

When ticked it behaves as version 6.5, slides times are as expected....

Jill,

I desagree with your comment something is going wrong.

On my side

unticked = old method (slide duration = duration specified)

ticked = new method (slide duration = slide duration specified-effect duration except for the last one which keep the duration specified)

So it is convenient for me.

Igor,

I have detected an old problem and some news

old problem :

duration values by default are sometimes 2/7 or 2/5 (effect/slide) depending on initial conditions I think there is still a "memory effect" somewhere.

new problems :

- open a new project

- option unticked

- drag and drop 3 slides

- 2/7 2/7 2/7

- Via project options I specify new values 4/9 it comes

- 4/9 4/9 4/9

then I've ticked the option, it comes :

- 4/5 4/5 4/9

That is OK except that the slide duration indicated in the Customize Slide window is not in line with the slide duration specified in Project Options which is not logical and will be misleading

Starting from this point :

- 4/5 4/5 4/9

1) if you drag and drop some new slides it comes

- 4/5 4/5 4/9 4/9.....????

should be

- 4/5 4/5 4/5 ....4/9

2) if you move one slide to another place for example n°2 to third position it comes

- 4/5 4/9 4/5 ????

should be

- 4/5 4/5 4/9

Best regards

Daniel

[Picsel]

Jill,

I desagree with your comment something is going wrong.

On my side

unticked = old method (slide duration = duration specified)

ticked = new method (slide duration = slide duration specified-effect duration except for the last one which keep the duration specified)

So it is convenient for me

Jill,

Sorry, I got exactly the same problem you have described in your previous post, this is more likely due to a new bug.

It seems that depending on initial conditions of PTE project, either it works in the right way (my post), either it works in the wrong way (your post)!

That seems in line with Dave experience.

Best regards

Daniel

[davegee]

Daniel,

I believe that the intended use for the KEEP FULL SLIDE DURATION option is that you start a new project with one or the other option and DO NOT ALTER IT!

Why would you alter it?

By altering it you are CREATING a logic problem.

DG

[Picsel]

Dave,

what do you mean by Time points option?

I do not change anything concerning time points.

If you want to say that "Keep full slide duration" option must be selected or not once for all for a specific project, in this case the option must be moved inside "Project Options".

But I think the actual problems are not there.

Daniel

[jkb]

Things do seem to be behaving strangely & it seems to do different things each time & it is not always possible to recreate a problem.

I have just created a new project in 7.0.1, before adding any slides in project options I set screen time to 4

& effect to 3.5. I then add 3 slides & would expect the total duration to be 12secs. It is NOT & is only 11secs. This means that slides have no screen time.

Also it is behaving as V7 with the slides showing a screen time of 7 not 4 as expected with V6.5

See screen grabs.

Jill

[davegee]

Jill,

Try something for me?

Close computer and rstart.

Open PTE (7.0.1) - add a few slides - make some changes (Keep Full Slide Duration unticked) - click on VIEW and watch what happens to the "Keep Full Slide Duration" tick box. SOMETIMES when I click on VIEW the "Keep Full Slide Duration" goes from unticked to ticked.

Close PTE and re-open and then it runs as expected.

That was the WIERD circumstance that I had this morning and I have managed to recreate it.

It is as though it needs to be opened - closed - restarted before it will run properly?

Your 3.5 / 4 / 3.5 is unrealistic - the duration MUST be longer than the transition in the V7.0.1 format otherwise you don't get any duration.

The slide time MUST include two transition times and your transition times added together are greater than the slide duration.

3.5 / 8 / 3.5 will give you 1 second between transitions.

DG

[Picsel]

Daniel,

I believe that the intended use for the KEEP FULL SLIDE DURATION option is that you start a new project with one or the other option and DO NOT ALTER IT!

Why would you alter it?

By altering it you are CREATING a logic problem.

DG

Sorry Dave,

but as you can read it in my previous post, I've selected the option at the very beginning of a new project and I have not changed it after, so I do not understand your comment!

But in any case, as I said in my previous post, if this option must not be changed during a project, this option must be moved inside Project Options otherwise it is not logical.

But from my point of view it would be better to leave it at the same place and to be able to change it at any times depending on the needs (for example if you need to add a video clip for the slideshow purpose after starting a new project with the option unticked).

Best regards

Daniel

[davegee]

Daniel,

You said:

"new problems :

- open a new project

- option unticked

- drag and drop 3 slides

- 2/7 2/7 2/7

- Via project options I specify new values 4/9 it comes

- 4/9 4/9 4/9

then I've ticked the option, it comes :

- 4/5 4/5 4/9

That is OK except that the slide duration indicated in the Customize Slide window is not in line with the slide duration specified in Project Options which is not logical and will be misleading"

I took this to mean that you changed the status of the "Keep Full Slide Duration" during your trial project.

DG

[Picsel]

Ok Dave, that's right, keep cool!

You are just trying to find an explanation and to find new rules for avoiding wrong PTE behaviour ! OK!

I think it is not the right way to solve a problem that's all.

Have a good week-end.

Daniel

[jkb]

Jill,

Try something for me?

Close computer and rstart.

Open PTE (7.0.1) - add a few slides - make some changes (Keep Full Slide Duration unticked) - click on VIEW and watch what happens to the "Keep Full Slide Duration" tick box. SOMETIMES when I click on VIEW the "Keep Full Slide Duration" goes from unticked to ticked.

Close PTE and re-open and then it runs as expected.

That was the WIERD circumstance that I had this morning and I have managed to recreate it.

Dave, I have tried what you suggested & yes it is werid!!

The first time PTE is opened, even if you don't do anything at all - every time you click on the view menu it changes 'Keep Full Slide Duration' from unticked to ticked to unticked again. Very strange.

Closing PTE & restarting & things work as 6.5 if unticked.

If ticked I still get unpredicatable results when moving slides or inserting new ones.

I still cannot see any reason for having the new timing system as you can add video with the old system & move it around & it works perfectly. If the user has a need for the slide following the video to overlap it, then simply move it up the timeline by however much they want. Every situation will be different & it is not something that PTE should try to program for.

Leave the timings as they were & always have been. They have worked for over ten years without problems. Why is video any different to anything else?

I give a lot of talks to camera clubs & try to help beginers. If this new system is to remain I need to be able to demonstrate why it is needed & at the moment I have no idea why anyone would want or need to use it.

So can someone please explain to me the need to include both transitions?

Jill

[davegee]

Jill,

Thanks for the confirmation of weird behaviour. I'll ask Igor what he thinks.

You didn't comment on the 3.5 / 4 /3.5 explanation that I gave you?

As to the reason for the new timings, all I can say is that I remember someone having a problem with inserting a video and it was stopping incorrectly. Igor saw the new timing system as the only answer to that problem. Like you I don't claim to understand the reason for it, but I think that I understand how the new system works.

NOW,

Can you give me a single example of the unpredictable result you are getting when moving slides so that we can talk about that?

DG

Predictability:

Example – moving slide 8 to become the new slide 2.

With KEEP FULL SLIDE DURATION ticked.

If you move the slide then the following circumstances are PREDICTABLE.

The incoming transition of original slide 8 (new slide 2) will become the outgoing transition of slide 1.

(Slide 1 will maintain its original incoming transition time and overall duration which will now include the incoming transition time of the new slide 2/ old slide 8)

The new slide 2 (old slide 8) will maintain its original incoming transition and duration but its outgoing transition will be the incoming transition of the original slide 2 (new slide 3).

The new slide 8 (old slide 7) will now maintain its original incoming transition time and duration but its outgoing transition will be the incoming transition of the original slide 9.

(If the original slide 8 was the original last slide then the original slide 7 will now become the last slide (slide 8) and therefore have no outgoing transition time).

Please remember that this is not written in support of the new V7 timings but rather as an explanation of how it works.

DG

[jkb]

Dave,

I know exactly how the new system should work, I just don't know why anyone would want or need to use it!

As to the unpredictability, that is the problem I cannot always reproduce it.

Look at my screen grabs from my earlier post. You will see that PTE set the screen to 7 when it should have been 4secs if following v6.5 or 7.5secs if following v7.0.1

I am now getting the same inconsistencies where it seems to be following a mixture of both rules.

Even though I have Closed & restarted PTE SEVERAL times.

This is on my desktop XP PC where I have installed V7.0.1 as a separate version, I.E. not overwriting V7.0

I have just started a new project, the default screen time is set to 7secs with the effect set to 2secs

'keep full slide duration' is unticked so it should work as v6.5

Add 3 slides & they show 2/7, 2/7, 2/7 ..... this is what I would expect if following v6.5.

BUT switching to the Timeline view you can see that it appears to be following V7.0.1

The overall time is only 17secs, with slides 1 & 2 having 5secs & slide 3 having 7secs.

Now Amend the effect time of Slide 3 (last Slide) to be 5secs.

3 ways of doing this are: Customise Slide; Using mouse wheel to increase the number; or typing 5 directly into the box.

Again the slide view looks correct, but when you look at the Timeline, the overall time has DECREASED to 14secs & Slide 3 overlaps Slide 2.

Whichever rules it is following, amending the effect duration should NOT alter the overall time.

However, amending the effect duration the 4th way (& the way I usually do things) is to go into the Timeline & drag the grey bar of slide 3 to give 5secs duration. The overall time remains the same as expected.

BUT switching back to Slide view & it shows that the screen time of Slide 2 has now altered to 10secs!!

Something is clearly going wrong & results are totally unpredictable.

I don't have any more time to spend on this now, so will await Igor's findings.

Jill

[davegee]

Jill,

One at atime.

I tried your first example. When I opened PTE I got the problem with the Box becoming ticked when I clicked on View so I restarted PTE. OK second time.

I duplicated your figures and got 2/7, 2/7, 2/7.

Switched to timeline and got 2/7, 2/7, 2/7.

Overall time=21 secs.

I can't explain it.

One thing though - Igor has (I think) put out TWO V7.0.1 Betas - have you got the most recent?

DG