Difficult path to DVD-Video

[Igor]

It's impossible now to use Ulead DVD MovieFactory2 if you want to get smooth transitions and CORRECT DVD-Video disc.

Unfortunately, as we've explored, this software doesn't recognize interlaced AVI files (and doesn't allow to set it manually) and creates DVD-Video in progressive format.

Such disc plays OK on most of DVD players connected to TV, but transitions will not be smooth on playback on PC or on TV & DVD players with HDTV connection.

However we recommend to use Ulead DVD MovieFactory2, if your presentation has only Fade in/out effect. And if you set DISABLED "Interlaced for TV" option in PicturesToExe | AVI dialog.

(You can use and another effects, but they will look not so smooth without this option turned on).

If you want to write really fully correct DVD-Video disc which has smooth transition effects (not only Fade in/out and all others), please use TMpegEnc Plus (the most popular encoder to MPEG2 format) and TMpegEnc DVD Author (it allows to create DVD menu and also burns the DVD-R/RW disc). But these two programs costs $100 (if buy them together). http://www.pegasys-inc.com

In comparison to Ulead, TMpegEnc Plus allows to right assign DVD-format. In case of PTE's AVI files, you should to set "Interlaced" and "Bottom field first (Field " and it will produce absolutely correct DVD-Video disc with smooth transition effects.

Also you can use any MPEG2 encoder which allows to set "Interlaced" option for the output DVD-Video disc.

p.s. I'm very apologize that we found this unpleasant situation with Ulead DVD MovieFactory2 too late. We even fully supported special extended AVI2 format which marks produced AVI that it consists interlaced video frames, but Ulead DVD MovieFactory2 doesn't recognize this parameter and always produces DVD disc in non-interlaced format. I've contacted to Ulead and asked them to solve this problem.

Another solutution: probably we will able to write our own MPEG2 encoder which solves this problem.

[Michel]

When we use this option at the beginning ot TEMPGenc plus (for DVD pal): CBR - MPEG -1 Couche*2 Audio MP2, the output is a file .mpg.

Also I think one can make a test: (I do not have a DVD writer): who can try to write this MPG file (interlaced) on a DVD disc with nero 6 or other and to tell me the results ?

[Igor]

Nero 6 doesn't support burning of DVD-Video disc from .mpg files without buying additional plug-in.

As variant: TMpegEnc Plus ($48) + Nero 6 (if you already have it) + DVD-Video Plug-in for Nero 6 ($25).

[MidKnight]

so if we use TMPGEnc to convert the AVI to MPEG, then all will be ok to use ulead moviefactory2 for the rest of the work?

[Michel]

TMpegEnc Plus ($48) + Nero 6 (if you already have it) + DVD-Video Plug-in for Nero 6 ($25).

Hello, my friends, who can test this solution ? I would like to know the result well: with this plugin, Nero can it write without problem this DVD with good transitions effects ?

There must be one of them well among you !!!

so if we use TMPGEnc to convert the AVI to MPEG, then all will be ok to use ulead moviefactory2 for the rest of the work?

Here is the same ask: who can test this solution.....

Note: sorry, I have no DVD writer !

[Michel]

probably we will able to write our own MPEG2 encoder which solves this problem

Please do it !

The last test with "Cinque Terre"(SVCD):

file .exe = 10 mb, file .avi = 80 mb ----- PIV, 2.4ghz, XP ram 512

- with ULead: all was finished in 20 minutes

- with TEMPGenc plus: all was finished (including writing with nero) in 10 minutes

Me, I prefer a little more the TEMPGenc plus result on the TV.

It would be very bad to lose the quality of output AVI by a not also good encoding (in my opinion TEMPGenc plus is the best).

Perhaps a Wnsoft encoder will be one day the best with and for PTE ?

[Ed Overstreet]

I'd like to reinforce Igor's offer to write a good MPEG-2 encoder. I am VERY disappointed with the VCD results I'm getting with Ulead; I will post separately in the AVI tips forum once I've finished experimenting with SVCD. PTE shows look stunning on my computer monitor; so far every test I've done with VCDs through Ulead and the PTE AVI feature produces shows that look pathetic on my TV set. I don't have a DVD burner and won't get one until I get a new computer; if the VCD/SVCD technology doesn't improve, or unless I discover some setting somewhere that makes a significant difference, I will abandon any further use of the AVI button. The results simply are not worth it in my view nor that of my wife, who is not a serious photographer nor a digital guru but knows what she does and doesn't like -- and she thinks the VCD results with my wonderful PTE shows are simply awful. I completely agree with her.

Don't know if the problem with VCD is the limitation of VCD resolution or whether this is something Igor could improve on with better encoding -- I certainly hope so. I've noticed that Ulead gives me better VCDs than I can get with Roxio Easy CD Creator Platinum version 5 (not the latest version which is 6 and I hear is better), though I still find the Ulead result unacceptable. But the small improvement between the two softwares suggests to me there may be some room for improvement even within the constraint of the VCD format.

[Michel]

Do you speak about the VCD or about the SVCD ?

Indeed the VCD is not very good if one compares it with the SVCD or the DVD !

But the SVCD is very good...it should be known that the final better output is the DVD and the encoding software

must be also the best possible one. It's what I say in my last topic.

The SVCD is made here for those which don't have yet a DVD writer.

The ultimate objective of PTE is the DVD !

(besides I think buying a DVD writer soon)

[slau]

I like the idea of having a GOOD quality mpeg2 decoder, hopefylly it will be as good as or better than the TMPGEnc's. But be aware that PTE may end up having to pay a 'royalty' in order to use the MPEG2 format (as in the case of TMPGEnc). In that case, PTE may consider to spin off a by-product for VCD/SVCD/DVD making for a fee to cover the 'royalty'. I am more than happy to support PTE MPEG2 financially if I can get the quality I like. There are lots of MPEG2 encoders/converters but there are only a few good ones (for consumers) at reasonable price. Hopefully I can add PTE MPEG2 encoder to my tool box, in addition to TMPGEnc.

[Ed Overstreet]

Hi Michel. Sorry for the imprecision, I'm speaking only of VCDs so far. I intend to experiment with SVCD to see if it's better, I hope it is because the VCD shows I produced look pretty awful on my TV set I have to say -- in fact I consider the image quality, the sound quality and the transition jerkiness in that format to be completely unacceptable. However I'm not sure yet whether my DVD player will play back an SVCD, I hope so.

Will report back on SVCD experiences once I have them, hopefully in a couple of days. I'm using Ulead for the VCDs; the VCDs I got from Ulead are better than what I got with Roxio version 5 but still unacceptable to me. I couldn't get Roxio version 5 to produce an svcd, at least there aren't any control settings or references in the help menu that suggest it can.

[Ed Overstreet]

I have decided to give up on using the AVI feature. It has turned into a huge waste of time and effort for me, resulting in nothing of any value to me.

I won't repeat what I've already said about the pathetic results I get (in both Roxio version 5 and in Ulead DVDMF2) in VCD format. I've given up trying to figure out whether or how version 5 can create an SVCD, I don't think it can, and even if it could it probably wouldn't be good enough based on what I saw of the VCD it created.

I tried to create an SVCD using Ulead DVD Movie Factory 2. All went well until Ulead tried to burn the CD-R, at that point I got a Microsoft error message "runtime error, abnormal program termination." Exit Ulead, nothing on the CD-R, after waiting 22 minutes for Ulead to translate my 2-minute PTE show from the AVI file that PTE only took 19 seconds to generate. I went to the Ulead website; nothing about this error in FAQ nor in the Knowledge Base. I can't contact their tech support, because I'm not registered, because their website won't accept repeated registration attempts even though I bought the software from them over the same website by credit card and downloaded it from there. I have contacted their customer service and am demanding a full refund, will remove the software from my system.

This AVI feature is a very low priority for me, and not just because of all the technical frustrations I've been experiencing. The PTE originals are always going to be as good as, and very likely better than, any second-generation copy in another format due to the lower image resolution. PTE EXE files are much smaller than AVI never mind other files, so sending shows over the internet is much faster in EXE. I can live with showing my PTE shows over my computer instead of the TV set for the small numbers of people who visit me at home to see shows; for showing them to the 200 members of our photo club, I run EXE shows over the club's computer and digital projector, why bother with a TV set no matter how big with a crowd like that? For friends and family out of town, I can mail or bring in my luggage many EXE shows on a single CD-R that doesn't take any more space in my luggage nor cost any more postage than would a VCD, an SVCD, or a DVD; besides few of my friends and family have DVD players yet, though all of them have computers and can run the EXE shows and don't seem to mind having to view them on a computer monitor instead of a TV set.

Igor, I would far rather that you spend your time and energy on some of the other features on Al Robinson's wish list (original 4.20 beta thread) and less time on AVI, also I think this feature is hijacking the Forum. As a photographer and long-time AV producer I think this AVI stuff has been a waste of my time. Maybe in a few years when I get a new computer with a DVD-R drive and things have advanced a bit more, I'll try this again.

For now, this is my last post on AVI and the last one I'm reading about it.

BTW I'm not criticizing Igor nor PTE; I'm sure the AVI file that PTE produces is the best possible with current technology. My frustration is with what happens after that, in generating something that will play in my DVD player over my TV set. Maybe it's my equipment (though Ulead claims it supports my Sony drive and Roxio has never had trouble using it), maybe it's the phases of the moon, I don't know nor care. It doesn't work for me, I'm glad it seems to work for some of the rest of you, I hope you enjoy it. It's not for me, not at this time, and it's not worth any more time, frustration, or money from me.

Pardon the venting but I think a forum should present all sides of an issue, and I haven't seen this particular viewpoint displayed. Maybe I'm the only user who's had the above-mentioned problems, I hope so for your sakes, I wouldn't wish what I've gone through the past several days on anyone.

[ecps]

Ed,

Just in case you do have a look back at these AVI posts - I too have had problems when it gets to the stage of burning the CD. I contacted Ulead about it and they returned a helpful email with all sorts of suggestions. When I had tried everything they said, and still had the same problem, I emailed them again but now everything seems to have gone quiet. Do you, by any chance, use Orlogix RecordNow Max as your normal burner? I rate it highly but am slightly suspicious that it may conflict with Ulead's ability to burn.

I, too, have decided to give AVI a rest for a bit. I really do not know enough about it to find my way through the minefield of problems that it seems to raise, and I am more than happy with P2E productions only being playable on a computer monitor. The ability to produce a DVD or CD which is playable on a DVD player would have been a nice extra, but there seem to be such huge compatablility problems that I would not feel at all confident about handing over a DVD/CD to someone for them to play it on their machine. My own Sanyo DVD player seems to reject any computer generated disc that I put in to it - and I am sure that others must own similarly temperamental machines.

I feel sorry for Igor who, at the request of the members of this forum, has put so much work into meeting our wishes only to run up against so many problems. We are, of course, only at the Beta stage, and even if AVI does not make it into the next full release, we will still own the best slideshow program available.

Eddie

[Ed Overstreet]

Hi Eddie. I said I wouldn't check these postings, but I did stumble over yours and am glad I did. Misery loves company I'm glad to hear I'm not the only person who's had problems with getting anything into my DVD player that looks right or even runs. Also interesting to note that I'm not the only person who's having problems with Ulead's website lately.

I also had problems with Ulead creating VCDs -- there's an error message that I got which I thought meant the burn had failed, and downloading two different patches from their website didn't make the error go away. I kept throwing the CDs into the trash until on a whim I loaded one into my CD-ROM and lo and behold in spite of the error message there were data on the CD and it did in fact play in the DVD player, albeit badly. That problem never went away either.

I think this particular technology has a LOT further to go before it's going to catch on. I'm usually pretty good at debugging mysterious computer glitches, and I rarely give up, but this mess has me running for the hills tearing my hair and screaming. As I said, maybe I'll try again in a couple of years when the dust has settled.

No I don't have Orlogix, my burner is a Sony CD-RW CRX100E.

You're right about not handing something like this over to my relatives and friends; if this gives me trouble, I don't want to think what some of my family and relatives would do if they encountered these frustrations. (Shoes firmly planted into a TV set can be expensive)

And I fully agree that PTE is by far the best AV software I've ever come across, I love the EXE shows!

[Michel]

Sorry, it should not be said, only because some have a problem, that output AVI is not good.

Rather look at the MPEG2 enccoder and Ulead also perhaps (I don't know..here I have no problem for SVCD with Ulead)

In France, we have several users who perfectly looked at to them diaporamas on the TV.

There can is to also see problems with some DVD burners and the different blank DVD, ans some software to burn CDR ou DVD.

Thank you to test your VCD with TEMPGenc plus...

Notes:

- I like the slide show on my computer (.exe)

- I love the slide show on my TV, and I think that output DVD is a major innovation, one more, which does not prevent Igor from normally developing the 4.20. (new transition effects...full control, new navigation bar.....)

It's what will make PTE a more great software. And it's needed, I think, because there will undoubtedly be competition with another software in the future.

[Danabw]

Just a confirmation - VCD is a waste of time - I can't imagine anyone enjoying a VCD show on a TV. Except for Pinnacle Expression's high-res VCD option (which omits any transitions) I have never seen nor gotten any VCD output that was anywhere near acceptable.

SVCD can be very good from a good program - if you don't have DVD capability yet it is an option that many will find acceptable.

DVD is still a bit expensive for some, in terms of the cost of the burners, the media, and the CPU horsepower to run it all. There are also issues w/DVD- and DVD+ format incompatibilities.

However, the arrival of AVI output to PTE is a milestone of great significance, and will allow many users who want to move on to SVCD or DVD output to remain w/a great program (PTE).

Anyone who wants to learn more about this should visit www.dvdrhelp.com - more info, suggestions, and ideas for the VCD/SVCD/DVD interested than you can shake a stick at.

Dana

[Tripstrilles]

@Ed

You have much to learn about computers. If you have burning problems, check your ASPI-driver.

If you have problems to burn CDs with Ulead or other software - how much burning-software do you

have on your computer? Only install 1 burning-software. First deinstall all burning-software you have.

Install the latest ASPI-driver from Adaptec and than install the burning software you prefer.

It will not be a problem of the Ulead-software.

Y.

[Ken Cox]

Dana

nothing the matter with the vcd's i have been making and viewing on 13", 23" 29" 33" and 56" tv's

granted if the pictures are marginal to begin with the end result is kind of jaggie when viewed, but quality pictures are giving me quality results.

but they arent the quality of "finding Nemo" -- think Disney is using some kind of different software

ken

[Barry Beckham]

I have downloaded an extended journalist copy of both TMpegEnc Plus and TMpegEnc DVD Author and tonight will try writing a DVD using those two pieces of software.

Has anyone done this yet already?

bbdigital

[LumenLux]

Dana

nothing the matter with the vcd's i have been making and viewing on 13", 23" 29" 33" and 56" tv's

Ken, coming from your photographic background, you will certainly appreciate a great leap in quality when you compare SVCD to your good results with VCD. (Or have you already made SVCD?) I agree with Dana that I would never waste another minute with VCD, but I surprised myself with the quality of the PTE to SVCD result.

[Ken Cox]

Robert, would luv to try but svcd, but see my entry Posted: Nov 27 2003, 03:12 PM

pg 1 of

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums//index...&t=1309&hl=svcd

ken

[Tom K]

I've just tried writing a VCD, an SVCD and a DVD this evening using TMPGEnc Plus, TMPGEnc Author and ULead DVD Factory 2. I used two pre-existing slideshows that I had on hand. One is of a friend's wedding with all 200ms fades and about 1.5s per slide, the other is of the 2003 Reno Air Races with all quick cuts (no transitions) and about 750ms per slide. MY PC is a 1.8GHz P4 with 512M of RAM. My DVD player is a Samsung DVD-V1000 DVD/VCR combo unit.

I have previously made a successful DVD using ULead which worked well, except for a "combtooth" effect (interlacing artifacts?) on some of the quick cuts in the Reno slideshow. The wedding slideshow with its fades played perfectly.

Tonight I made another successful DVD using TMPGEnc Plus and TMPGEnc Author and it did not seem to have the comb effect on the quick cuts. I'm not familiar enough with TMPGEnc Author so the disc chapter menu was botched up but that is not the program's fault. I thought it seemed like a lot of work to make the .avi with PTE, convert it to a .m2v file with TMPGEnc Plus and then burn it to disc with TMPGEnc Author - the Plus and Author programs really should be combined or work together - or maybe I just don't know what I'm doing to make it work efficiently. Even at that, it took a lot less time than making a DVD with ULead - maybe 40 minutes versus an hour and a half.

Then I used TMPGEnc Plus to convert the PTE .avi to a .mpg file and made a VCD with ULead. Pretty crappy result. Picture quality-wise it looked about like a videotape I made of the original DVD (using my combo DVD/VCR machine) except the fades in the wedding slideshow were very bad - compression artifacts all over the place. Picture detail was low. Then in the Reno slideshow the pictures started transitioning badly toward the end so that some of the pictures even showed up out of order. Not worth doing.

Then I used the same files and ULead to make an SVCD. Much better quality! The picture detail seemed to pretty much equal the DVD and I almost wish I had the capability to compare the SVCD and the DVD output side by side. I say almost, because even though the picture was good and it started out playing well with the wedding slideshow, the transitions gradually became worse and worse until they were very jerky at the end. Then during the Reno slideshow I started getting jerkiness towards the end, similar to (but not as bad as) the VCD results.

By the way, on both the VCD and SVCD there was no menu available - they just played from the start to the end. It was possible to skip back and forth between the two shows but if I had multiple shows on a single disc (which I am likely to do) it wouldn't be possible to select one individually to play.

It's too bad that the SVCD didn't work out since CDs are so cheap. The picture quality was very good but it just wouldn't hold up during the transitions, at least on my DVD player.

However, blank DVDs have really come down in price and can be had on sale for about a dollar each (here in the States.) DVD writers have also really come down and I've seen a number on sale in DVD+/-R/RW format for under a hundred dollars. So I don't feel economy is a reason to expend any effort on VCD/SVCD. Plus I believe they are less likely to play in DVD players than DVDs.

My results:

VCD - craptastic

SVCD - better but not good enough

DVD - the way to go

[Igor]

I can suppose now that we will solve this problem with Ulead DVD MovieFactory2.