Flat Screen Monitors

[Barry Beckham]

Igor

Not sure if there is anything you could do about this, but if you don't ask, you don't get they say.

Since using a large flat screen monitor, I notice that when fading up from black on the first image, you often see a disturbance in the screen. Not sure how else to describe it, but I am guessing you know what I mean.

I do find it annoying and it does cause a distraction just when your trying to start off a slide show with a good first impression. Is there anything that can be done about it from PTE's point of view.

[fh1805]

Barry,

I, too, have noticed something that may be similar, especially in my more recent sequences that are built to 1920x1080 rather than my previous 1024x768. To me, it seems as if the fade cannot be accomplished at an even density of black throughout, some areas of black seem darker than others for just a few fractions of a second. It has, to me, the appearance of a kind of flicker or shimmer but within the black.

Do you see the same "disturbance" at the end of the sequence on the fade from the final image to black? Does the transition time have any bearing on the presence/absence or amount of the disturbance? Do you see the same disturbance on the equipment you use to project the sequence?

My answers to those questions are: sometimes, but it's not as obvious; yes, the slower the fade, the more obvious the disturbance; no, I have never seen it on my laptop/projector combo - only on the new desktop system with its 22 inch monitor (and that is why I have never worried about it - until now).

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Monitors have different response rates, usually the more expensive ones have rates below 5Ms, it could be causing the phenomina Barry & Peter are experiencing.

Yachtsman1

From Google

Response time is measured as the rise time (tR) and fall time (tF) of a pixel as it changes black > white > black. This is effectively the time it takes to change a pixel from one colour to another and the total ‘response time’ is quoted as the total of the tR + tF. Be wary of the figures manufacturers quote, as sometimes the ‘response time’ can be quoted as just the rise time, and not the total response time. This measurement of the black > white > black transition was defined as the ISO standard for response time measurements.

[fh1805]

Tom,

In my case I don't use video clips. I'm talking about the standard fade transition from an all black slide to an image slide at the very start of a sequence.

regards,

Peter

[Igor]

Barry,

Peter,

I think Eric is right.

Please try export slideshow as FullHD video in H.264 format and play in video player to compare with executable file.

[Ken Cox]

I am in the process of relearning action photography - g'son playing vollyball - harder than figure skating - and have not done any since +- 1990

i put together a quick show from 2 different gym's

running the pte

black slide at start - black slide for separation of the 2 gym's then black slide at end

perfect start but very very slight quiver at the separation point and the end

same thing with the exe

i made mp4's for ipad and iphone --runs smooth with wmp 11

ken

[Conflow]

Hi Guys,

Yes,I agree with Tom on this problem and I doubt if Igor can do very much about it.......Lets re-cap the historic situation,viz:-

* Some time ago Igor & Team had to make a compromise concerning Video-Bitrates and Members PC's and Monitors.

* Igor recommended to use 1280x720 pixels (16:9 Format) and Mp4-ASP as the Codec-System best suited to a wide range of Users.

* That specification made it possible for Pte-Users to enjoy Pte-Slideshows in DVD/HD Format on Medium-Spec PC's~Laptops and TV's.

* At that time Igor did advise on the stress's imposed by 1920x1080 HD-Video Formats using the full Mp4-ASF Codec-System.

* Using that HD-Specification would have denied many PTE-Users the enjoyment of seeing their Slideshows in Video and DVD/TV formats.

* Furthermore one has to realise that the 1920x1080 HD-Format uses RGB Color-Space for correct rendition of DVD/TV Imagery.

* The formats 1280x720 and 1080x608 use sRGB Color-Space. Having said that there are very few Monitors capable of full-RGB replay.

* Virtually all of the PTE-Programming and your personal Camera-Engineering is in sRGB Color-Space with a few exceptions in RAW or MOV.

Conclusion

Its a "Catch-22 situation" does Pte cater for the vast majority of their users or a minority of Hi-End Users, and again having said that how can

one get a Slideshow running properly in HD-1920x1080 sRGB (Hybrid) without an 'Ultra-Fast Monitor' and PC ~ thats probably the reason why

many of the Commercial Video-Studios use CRT-Monitors (no time lag) and capable of rendering sRGB and RGB.

Personal Note

Personally I have found the 1280x720 System more than adequate for my usage and much superior in performance than "average" Wide-Screen

TV's can render ~ unless of course you are lucky enough to own a good 'Multi-Media Television' or Wide-Screen CRT-Monitor (expensive).

And to those I920x1080 HD Users ~ We are talking about (worldclass) BBC-Color HD-Standards here ~ is your equipment capable of that ??

And more important ~ Where and how are you going to show it if complimentary equipment is not available ??

Hope this helps,

Brian (Conflow)

[Igor]

Let start from beginning. If I understand rightly, Barry and Peter watch slideshow in executable format. Not as video file. Right?

[fh1805]

Igor,

Cannot speak for Barry, but in my case you are absolutely correct. I see these "disturbances" when Previewing in PTE and playing back the EXE file. In my situation any mention of video is totally irrelevant. I have neither included any video in my sequences nor have I created any video stream from the PTE project.

regards,

Peter

[Igor]

For this reason, I plan to buy only IPS displays.

Probably there is a solution.

Please check up settings of your monitor. Some advanced LCD displays have an option to speed up updating of pixels and reduce ghosting problem especially for text scrolling. But price of it - another pixel artefacts. A name of this option can be different, sometimes they call it "overdrive". And I alway turn off this option.

[davegee]

Igor,

IPS?

DG

[Lin Evans]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD#In-Plane_Switching_.28IPS.29

Lin

Igor,

IPS?

DG

[Igor]

For example, IPS displays installed in Apple Cinema, iMac (2010/2011), iPad, iPhone 4/4S.

[davegee]

Thanks Lin,

Your catching Ken's penchant for linking!

Anyway, the reason I asked was that I have tried to see what Barry and Peter are seeing and have failed.

My monitor appears to be nothing special - an Iiyama B2403WS with a 2ms Response Time.

I didn't particularly choose it for any other reason than that I have used a few Iiyamas and they have always been totally reliable and are colour correct straight out of the box. I would certainly get another one but I need to know, if and when I decide to get a new one, what I should be looking for (in another Iiyama).

DG

[cjdnzl]

This reply triggered by Davegee's remark about 2ms refresh on his monitor. There are some monitors that display only 6 bits, using dithering to reproduce an 8-bit image, and even 8-bit monitors have to convert to 8 bits from a 16-bit image. I wonder if these factors could be causing the disturbance effects being seen that are the subject of this thread?

Colin

[davegee]

Colin,

You'll have to explain more?

Are you saying that the lower the refresh rate the more likely the monitor is to be able to cope with the conversion?

I can't see where the 16 - 8 bit conversion comes into it?

DG

Wiki to the rescue:

Display technologies

Response time is the amount of time a pixel in an LCD monitor takes to go from one value to another and back again. It is measured in milliseconds (ms). Lower numbers mean faster transitions and therefore fewer visible image artifacts.

Older monitors with long response times would create a smear or blur pattern around moving objects, making them unacceptable for moving video. Long response times can be annoying to a viewer depending on the type of data being displayed and how rapidly the image is changing or moving. Many current(which?) LCD monitor models have improved to the point that this is only seen with extreme contrasts.

For an LCD display, typical response times are 8 to 16 ms for black-white-black, or 2 to 6ms for grey-to-grey. The response time was traditionally recorded at the full black > white transition, which became the ISO standard for this specification on LCDs. Grey transitions are far more common in practice but in terms of pixel latency, they remained significantly behind the ISO transition. In recent years there have been a wide range of Response Time Compensation (RTC) / overdrive technologies^[2] introduced which have allowed panel manufacturers to significantly reduce grey transitions. Response times are now commonly quoted in "GTG" (alternately but less commonly "G2G," both meaning "grey-to-grey"^[3]) or "GLRT" (meaning "Gray Level Response Time"^[4]). There are various names used for RTC technologies, and these vary from one manufacturer to another. Terms such as ClearMotiv (Viewsonic), AMA (BenQ), MagicSpeed (Samsung) and ODC (LG/Philips) are widely used to identify RTC enabled displays.

With a CRT the response times are much faster, and CRTs do not have the same problems with smearing or ghosting. The same is true for plasma displays. However, older CRTs and plasma displays can have problems with flicker at any refresh rate, and even newer ones can at refresh rates less than about 80Hz.

LCD screens with a slow response time are often unsuitable to play fast paced computer games. A worst-case response time of <16ms is sufficient for video gaming, and the difference between response times once below 10ms begin to become hard to perceive due to limitations of the human eye. ^{[5] [6]}

The pixel response time is often confused with the LCD input lag which adds another form of latency to pictures displayed by LCD screens. An LCD screen with high response time and significant input lag will not give satisfactory results when playing fast paced computer games or performing fast high accuracy operations on the screen (e.g. CAD). Manufacturers only state the response time of their displays and do not inform customers of the input lag value.

To address input lag, some modern televisions will offer some sort of "gaming mode" where the TV passes the signal through with minimal processing to minimize any potential image lag.

[Barry Beckham]

Igor

Its OK, just a suggestion. Its a small price to pay for the rest that PTE gives me. I am not really into making Videos of my slide shows, I like the exe quality. The appeal of AV for me is that still images are streets ahead of any video in quality and for me that is the appeal.