Keep Full Side Duration-revisited

[goddi]

Greetings,

I have tried several different tests to see how the 'Keep Full Slide Duration' (KFSD) function works but it is still baffling me. Here are my questions and tests I performed. It is my understanding that if the KFSD is ticked, a slide’s or a video’s duration indicator in the slide’s icon (in the Slide View) is increased by the amount of the next slide’s transition. If this is an incorrect assumption, then the following questions might not make sense. However, here are my questions relating to KFSD. I have read all the post relating to the KFSD function but its understanding still eludes me:

Question 1:

The video’s length is 19.62 seconds.

In the Slide View.

Test #1

KFSD is unticked.

The video is dragged/dropped into Slide View.

The video’s Duration shows 19.62.

If I then tick KFSD, the video’s Duration shows 21.62.

So far so good. When the KFSD is ticked, the duration is adding the 2 second transition time of the next slide into the video’s ‘duration’ total.

Test #2

KFSD is ticked.

The video is dragged/dropped into Slide View.

The video’s Duration shows 19.62 (not 21.62, as I expected).

If I then untick KFSD, the Duration shows 17.62.

In Test #2, why don’t I get the same values that are shown in Test #1 for the ticked and unticked choices with the same video?

Question 2:

Now, I don’t know why, but, with the KFSD unticked, the same video that was previously showing a Duration of 19.62, is now showing a duration of 17.62. I am expecting it to still be 19.62.

If I then ticked the KFSD, and it then showed a Duration of 19.62.

Next, I dragged this same video selection from the File List into another point in the Slide View. But now this video shows a Duration of 19.62. I would expect it to show 21.62 as it was in Test #1 above. Why is the same video showing two different Durations amounts with the KFSD unticked?

Question 3:

With the KFSD unticked, and the Duration of this video showing 19.62, I closed the program. I then opened it and the Duration of this video now shows 17.62.

What made it change? Shouldn’t it still be 19.62 with KFSD unticked? If I tick KFSD, the duration goes back to 19.62.

Question 4: (changing transition time of the next slide)

A video of 19.62 seconds has been inserted into the Slide View, and KFSD is unticked. However, the video’s Duration shows it to be only 17.62. (I think it should show 19.62, but let’s just work with this).

I then changed the next slide’s transition from 2.0 to 4.0. The Duration of the video did not change, as expected.

If I then tick the KFSD, the Duration of the video changes to 21.62, as expected.

Now, with the KFSD ticked, the transition of the slide after the video is set back to 2.0, and the video’s Duration is back to 19.62.

I then increased the transition of the slide that comes after the video from 2.0 to 4.0. The Duration of the video did not change. I expected it to increase to 21.62.

Why does it not increase to 21.62?

Then, if I untick the KFSD, the Duration of the video drops to 15.62. This, also, is not what I expected to happen.

Now to make it even more muddy, now all of a sudden, the video’s duration is back to 19.62, instead of 17.26 (KFSD is unchecked). And when it is re-ticked, the video’s Duration goes back to 21.62 as expected.

I am getting results that just don’t make sense and are not consistent. Can someone explain what is happening. I‘d appreciate any help with this.

Thanks… Gary

[davegee]

check out new tutorial.

and stop switching between ticked and unticked

it will not help you.

test 2 is correct __ 19.62 includes two overlapping transitions if you dont want overlap use unticked

start a test either ticked or unticked and stick with it.

dg

from ny kindle

[goddi]

check out new tutorial.

and stop switching between ticked and unticked

it will not help you.

dg

====================

Greetings Dave,

Well, I had already read your two new tutorials. But they do not answer my questions that I posted. I got results that made no sense. Maybe you can avoid these problems if you know what you are doing. Your tutorials deal with adding 6 videos and moving them. I am trying to make a very simple example with just one video and how the KFSD works. But if your solution is to just not tick/untick the boxes, that is not helpful. If you have a box that can be ticked, you should be able to tick it and untick it without causing questionable results. I'd appreciate responses that deal with the specific examples that I presented so I can understand it better.

Thanks... Gary

[davegee]

gary

it is late here and im on my kindle

test 2 is correct

go from there. fully understand ticked before switching in the same test PLEASE.

i assure you that you will understand it better

trying to help!

dg

[fh1805]

Gary,

Think of KFSD as a Project Option (which is where I think it should be located). You make your decision at the start of the project - and you do not change it for that project.

If you try working with it in this manner, you will see a consistent behaviour within each project; but the behaviour will be different for a project with KFSD ticked compared to one with KFSD unticked.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Gary,

I will try to answer in your terms. One step at a time?

Firstly I am assuming Project Options of 10 seconds Slide Duration and 2 seconds Transition Time.

You are adding a Video so KFSD should be TICKED to begin.

With KFSD Ticked: If you add your video to the empty Slide View it will show as:

[2;19.62] – Where the transition time is 2 seconds and the Slide Duration = the Video Duration (19.62).

Now if you start again (again with KFSD ticked) and add two blank slides (in the Slide View) with the following settings:

[2;10] [2;10] – Where the time between transitions for the first slide is 6 seconds and the second slide is 2 seconds transition followed by 8 seconds duration – see Timeline view.

Now drop your Video into the space between the two blank slides and you will see the following:

[2;10] [2;19.62] [2;10]

The FSD of each slide is made up of THREE elements:

[First Overlap/Transition; Time between Overlaps/Transitions; Second Overlap/Transition]

In the case of your video that's [2;15.62; 2]

You can now un-tick your KFSD and re-tick your KFSD as much as you want and it will always return to where you set it up first (Slide View):

Ticked - [2;10] [2;19.62] [2;10]

Un-Ticked - [2;8] [2;17.62] [2;10]

Ticked - [2;10] [2;19.62] [2;10]

Also, KFSD ticked will allow you to change the order of the slides and preserve the settings.

Do we agree so far?

This might be a good time to repeat what I have said previously - If you don't want your Video to overlap during transitions then you don't need KFSD - work with it Un-Ticked. KFSD is only necessary when you want your video (Main Object) to overlap with the previous and next slides (be they Video or still image) and also want that overlap to be maintained correctly when moving the position of the Video within the show.

DG

P.S. I have explained Modifying Transition Times in KFSD here:

http://www.picturest...-times-in-v701/

[davegee]

FURTHER EXPLANATION OF DIFFERENCES WHEN ADDING VIDEO

KFSD on Vs KFSD off

If your 19.62 second video is added between two existing slides with KFSD Un-Ticked then the 19.62 second Slide Duration is measured from the beginning of the VideoTransition to the BEGINNING of the next slide's transition time. (No Overlap). Two elements - Transition Time and Video = [2;17.62] = 19.62

If your 19.62 second video is added between two existing slides with KFSD Ticked then the 19.62 second Slide Duration is measured from the beginning of the Video Transition to the END of the next slide's transition time. (Overlap). Three elements - Transition Time - Video - Transition Time = [2;15.62;2] = 19.62

Changing from Un-Ticked to Ticked will not create the Overlap Transition which is automatically applied when adding the video with KFSD Ticked.

DG

[goddi]

Dave and Peter,

Thanks for your detailed replies. I have read and re-read them. I think I see what you are talking about. However, when I put in a video, I want to see the actual length of the video in the Slide View (19.62). When I put in the video (and have the Project's transitions set to fade-in for 2.0 seconds), I have no problems with the fade-in and fade-out of the video. So I think I will stick to not selecting the KFSD. Maybe the use of KFSD would be useful for more complex slideshows.

Peter made the comment to not touch the KFSD once it has been selected for the project. If this is true, then the KFSD is really in the wrong place and really needs to be reworked. I see it as just a mathematical calculation that should be able to be ticked or unticked to be able to view the results as one wants. I think that if you have a box that can be ticked, you should be able to untick it and not cause a problem.

Right now, the video for my slideshow now shows a duration of 17.62 (when it originally showed 19.62). I have the KFSD unticked and I can not get it to go back to the 'normal' setting that I want it to be...19.62 by ticking or unticking anyting. I can delete the video and drag/drop it into the slideshow again and it will show 19.62, but this does not make any sense that that is what I have to do to get it back to what I consider the correct duration that I want to see, especially if the slide with the video is a complicated slide.

I still feel like I am missing some of the points that make using the KFSD feature useful, but I can't seem to grasp them, yet.

Gary

[davegee]

Gary,

I want to see the actual length of the video in the Slide View (19.62).

Forgive me, but I don't know what is going wrong. Whenever I drag and drop a video into the Slide View it does exactly what you are asking for whether I use KFSD Ticked or Un-Ticked.

Peter made the comment to not touch the KFSD once it has been selected for the project. If this is true, then the KFSD is really in the wrong place ....

Peter and I have both seperately made this point to Igor and to date Igor chooses to either ignore the request or does not understand what we are proposing.

Right now, the video for my slideshow now shows a duration of 17.62 (when it originally showed 19.62). I have the KFSD unticked and I can not get it to go back to the 'normal' setting that I want it to be...19.62 by ticking or unticking anyting. I can delete the video and drag/drop it into the slideshow again and it will show 19.62, but this does not make any sense that that is what I have to do to get it back to what I consider the correct duration that I want to see, especially if the slide with the video is a complicated slide.

Put your cursor in the box saying 17.62 and change it to 19.62?

Two possibilities: Start your show with KFSD Ticked and add your video. Turn KFSD off and work with it unticked. Only turn it back on if you need to modify or move the video.

Or, with KFSD turned Off, add your video as an object to a blank slide in O&A and manually adjust your Slide Duration to suit - 19.62 including the 2 second transition (or no transition).

My personal preference would be to have the video overlap with other slides and images and therefore I would use KFSD Ticked.

DG

P.S. One other thing I should mention - If you decide to use the Video Trimming Utility in O&A Properties you will need to read the Video Duration figure and enter that manually as the Slide Duration for your video slide. It will not update Automatically (this has also been asked for).

[fh1805]

I still feel like I am missing some of the points that make using the KFSD feature useful, but I can't seem to grasp them, yet.

Gary,

I am still unconvinced that the KFSD feature has any real benefit (i.e. allows something to be done that cannot be done any other way). As you and others have discovered, it is serving only to cause confusion where there should not be any confusion. Some of that confusion would be circumvented by moving the tick box for the feature into Project Options.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Peter,

Are you ABSOLUTELY sure that the facility provided by KFSD can be done in another way?

The criteria is this:

With KFSD you can drop a video into the slide view and it automatically creates a slide of the correct length with an overlap transition on both ends governed by the transition setting in Project Options and the transition time of the following slide.

You can then move that Video to anywhere in the show (via the Slide View) and it will maintain its relationship with the two slides it is placed between without having to manually adjust the transition times. In other words it will carry its own transition time with it and adopt the transition time of the following slide (automatically).

Remember that we are talking about Video with OVERLAP transitions.

DG

[goddi]

Dave,

Gary,

I want to see the actual length of the video in the Slide View (19.62).

Forgive me, but I don't know what is going wrong. Whenever I drag and drop a video into the Slide View it does exactly what you are asking for whether I use KFSD Ticked or Un-Ticked.

You might be right, but after going through a tick/untick session, the duration for 'unticked' went to 17.26 and should have been 19.26. Nothing I tried could bring it back to the 19.26, except deleting it and drag/drop it back into the Slide View.

Peter made the comment to not touch the KFSD once it has been selected for the project. If this is true, then the KFSD is really in the wrong place ....

Peter and I have both seperately made this point to Igor and to date Igor chooses to either ignore the request or does not understand what we are proposing.

Right now, the video for my slideshow now shows a duration of 17.62 (when it originally showed 19.62). I have the KFSD unticked and I can not get it to go back to the 'normal' setting that I want it to be...19.62 by ticking or unticking anyting. I can delete the video and drag/drop it into the slideshow again and it will show 19.62, but this does not make any sense that that is what I have to do to get it back to what I consider the correct duration that I want to see, especially if the slide with the video is a complicated slide.

Put your cursor in the box saying 17.62 and change it to 19.62?

That did not even cross my mind. It worked. Thanks.... But there must be something not working correctly in PTE because I would think it would be able to recalculate it back to the proper setting once you set it back to unticked.

Two possibilities: Start your show with KFSD Ticked and add your video. Turn KFSD off and work with it unticked. Only turn it back on if you need to modify or move the video.

Or, with KFSD turned Off, add your video as an object to a blank slide in O&A and manually adjust your Slide Duration to suit - 19.62 including the 2 second transition (or no transition).

My personal preference would be to have the video overlap with other slides and images and therefore I would use KFSD Ticked.

When you say 'overlap', I am not sure what you are referring to. Do you mean fade-in/out? When I use fade-in/out and drop in a video, it works just fine when KFSD is unticked.

Thanks. Gary

DG

P.S. One other thing I should mention - If you decide to use the Video Trimming Utility in O&A Properties you will need to read the Video Duration figure and enter that manually as the Slide Duration for your video slide. It will not update Automatically (this has also been asked for).

[goddi]

Gary,

I am still unconvinced that the KFSD feature has any real benefit (i.e. allows something to be done that cannot be done any other way). As you and others have discovered, it is serving only to cause confusion where there should not be any confusion. Some of that confusion would be circumvented by moving the tick box for the feature into Project Options.

regards,

Peter

================================

Peter,

At this point, I think I agree with you. And it should be able to be undone if you decide to undo it. And having it still shown when in the Timeline, really adds to the confusion.

Gary

[davegee]

You might be right, but after going through a tick/untick session, the duration for 'unticked' went to 17.26 and should have been 19.26. Nothing I tried could bring it back to the 19.26, except deleting it and drag/drop it back into the Slide View.

You'll have to give me a detailed step by step on that - did you start by droppinhg the video in with KFSD Ticked?

That did not even cross my mind. It worked. Thanks.... But there must be something not working correctly in PTE because I would think it would be able to recalculate it back to the proper setting once you set it back to unticked.

Not if you did something which the programme considered illogical. Details again? I could give you another sample of something which "won't recover" but it goes beyond the logic of the programme.

See the bit about inadvertently setting a transition time greater than slide duration in the Modifying.... Tutorial.

When you say 'overlap', I am not sure what you are referring to. Do you mean fade-in/out? When I use fade-in/out and drop in a video, it works just fine when KFSD is unticked.

Thanks. Gary

When you drop a video in between two slides with KFSD ticked the previous slide will fade out when the video starts to play and create a 2 sec (in your case) overlap transition. If the previous slide were also a video then you would see two moving videos fading one into the other - both moving. At the end of the video you would see exactly the same thing - two moving videos fading one into the other. If you were to move this video to another position in between two different videos with different transition times the correct overlap transition would be created with neither video stopping before the fades are completed.

DG

[goddi]

Dave,

You might be right, but after going through a tick/untick session, the duration for 'unticked' went to 17.26 and should have been 19.26. Nothing I tried could bring it back to the 19.26, except deleting it and drag/drop it back into the Slide View.

You'll have to give me a detailed step by step on that - did you start by droppinhg the video in with KFSD Ticked?

I am very sure the slideshow was started with KFSD unticked. I was just curious to see what would happen if it were ticked. I did this because of your two postings on this subject. Somewhere along this process, it stuck on 17.62.

That did not even cross my mind. It worked. Thanks.... But there must be something not working correctly in PTE because I would think it would be able to recalculate it back to the proper setting once you set it back to unticked.

Not if you did something which the programme considered illogical. Details again? I could give you another sample of something which "won't recover" but it goes beyond the logic of the programme.

See the bit about inadvertently setting a transition time greater than slide duration in the Modifying.... Tutorial.

Yes, I read about that (changing transition times) but I did not change a transition time to be greater than the slide duration.

When you say 'overlap', I am not sure what you are referring to. Do you mean fade-in/out? When I use fade-in/out and drop in a video, it works just fine when KFSD is unticked.

Thanks. Gary

When you drop a video in between two slides with KFSD ticked the previous slide will fade out when the video starts to play and create a 2 sec (in your case) overlap transition. If the previous slide were also a video then you would see two moving videos fading one into the other - both moving. At the end of the video you would see exactly the same thing - two moving videos fading one into the other. If you were to move this video to another position in between two different videos with different transition times the correct overlap transition would be created with neither video stopping before the fades are completed.

Just came across another strange thing. I had changed the 17.62 to 19.62 as you suggested. I just opened the slideshow and it still showed 17.62. I changed it again to 19.62 and saved it and closed PTE. I opened the slideshow again, and it went back to 17.62. Finally, after about the 3rd time, it stayed at 19.62. For my purposes, I like the fade-in/out (overlap) with the videos that I am making. I did put a second video after the first video and changed the transition to 0 using the Custom menu. The abrupt change from video to video does not look good for me, but, of course, useful in other circumstances.

Gary

DG

[davegee]

I am very sure the slideshow was started with KFSD unticked. I was just curious to see what would happen if it were ticked. I did this because of your two postings on this subject. Somewhere along this process, it stuck on 17.62.

If you had started it with KFSD Ticked you would be able to go back and forth without problems as long as you did nothing else.

Yes, I read about that (changing transition times) but I did not change a transition time to be greater than the slide duration.

That was just another example of how things can go wrong if you excede the limitations. I didn't think that you had done that.

You have to be extremely careful when you open and close and open to be sure where the KFSD is when you open.

Choose your weapon and stick with it.

Good luck,

DG

[goddi]

That was just another example of how things can go wrong if you excede the limitations. I didn't think that you had done that.

You have to be extremely careful when you open and close and open to be sure where the KFSD is when you open.

Choose your weapon and stick with it.

Good luck,

DG

========================

Dave,

Well, I hope Igor sees the light and does something to make more sense of the KFSD. This is a mine field waiting for a victim.

Thanks for your help.

Gary