What microphone

[awstyle]

I have been trying my hand at video presentations using still pictures and background music for some years but have never succeeded in adding narration. The problem has been whether I use Audacity, Serif MoviePlus X3 and previous versions or other sound recording products I get a background hum or, if I turn the gain down, hardly any sound. I have been using a Logitech USB headset and also the headset that came with Dragon Naturally Speaking but no matter what combination I have used the result is still the same.

I then thought the problem was with my computer and considered new sound cards etc. etc. However, in the meantime, I have purchased an iMac 21.5" with 8Gb Ram and guess what? The hum is still there. It is now looking like I need to invest in a better microphone or even a sound recorder. I have seen the Olympus LS10 recorder but I don't even buy a lottery ticket so that's not going to happen.

Any advice on something more reasonable would be appreciated.

Kind regards.

Tony

[RobertAlbright]

I recommend you contact the leading sound expert in the UK for audio visual work. His name is Howard Gregory, phone 01925 753303, email is chairman@wilmslowguildav.org.uk

His CD on this topic is All About Microphones 221 minutes, £12.

At the same price is Better Soundtracks, 143 minutes and Understanding Audio, 166 minutes.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Tony

I've had my LS10 for over 2 years now & of the 6 other recorders/mikes I've tried, it's the best. You've only got to look at reporters trying to get what celebrities are saying for TV broadcasts, & look what they are using, an LS10 or its equivalent. Of the cheepo's I've tried the Logitech USB mike came out best, just the mike without the headset. I did an analysis on here some time ago & it's contained in this post just scroll through it & make your own conclusions.

Yachtsman1.

[xahu34]

See here!

Regards,

Xaver

[awstyle]

Thanks guys. Definitely some food for thought there.

Kind regards.

Tony

[gogs]

Thanks guys. Definitely some food for thought there.

Kind regards.

Tony

Hi Tony

I have just got the Samson GoMic and have been trying it out. It is condensor microphone with three settings for direct Cardioid recording and omni directional. Has a USB connection and can be used clipped to the top of a laptop or just sat on your desk with a PC. Costs around £35 to £40 depending on where you buy. I think the quality and calrity of recording is excellent. My use is primarily to add commentary to slideshows.

Gogs

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Tony

I have just got the Samson GoMic and have been trying it out. It is condensor microphone with three settings for direct Cardioid recording and omni directional. Has a USB connection and can be used clipped to the top of a laptop or just sat on your desk with a PC. Costs around £35 to £40 depending on where you buy. I think the quality and calrity of recording is excellent. My use is primarily to add commentary to slideshows.

Gogs

Why not post a voice sample then Tony & others can judge for themselves?

Yachtsman1

[cjdnzl]

The whole question of extraneous noise, particularly hum, is a vexing question for a lot of recording applications, including voice and music recording.

The two main sources of hum are mains power derived, from 'ground loops' and 50 Hz electromagnetic fields from mains wiring in buildings.

Ground loops result from having interconnected pieces of equipment powered from different mains outlets that have a 'potential' - read voltage difference - between the outlet earths. Often only a fraction of 1 volt difference can cause problems. (I remember in my electronic days having a major problem in a garage workshop trying to use an electronic engine analyser console which kept locking out, and found a ground potential difference of five volts between the frame earth of the analyser and the earth pin connection of the power outlet, enough to render the machine unusable.)

Electromagnetic fields from house wiring are all-pervasive, and will be picked up by audio equipment, particularly by microphones and preamplifiers as well as cables carrying audio at low levels. This problem is made worse by 'dirty' equipment like digital TVs and computers whose chop-mode power supplies produce harmonics from the mains frequency at 50 Hz right up into the megahertz range. Susceptibility to these fields varies, worse with cheap mics and cables.

If your recording gear will run from batteries, and nothing in your house will come to harm by losing power, you could try turning off the power at the switchboard and doing a recording while the house wiring is 'dead'.

Alternatively if you have access to an oscilloscope, record a minute of so of silence with the recording gear set up as you would for recording, then have a look at the recorded signal with the 'scope. A few variations of volume level, mic plugged in vs not plugged in etc - use your imagination here - will enable you to get a good idea of just where the hum is coming from, and may suggest a solution to you.

[fh1805]

Colin,

Whilst not disagreeing with your comments, the main source of "noise" for those trying to record using their computer's soundcard/software is the computer itself. The innards of a computer are "hostile territory" for a low-level sound signal coming from a microphone. By its very nature, a computer contains many sources of electronic noise: the power stack that is converting AC mains electricity into DC electricity, the electric motors of the hard drives and cooling fans, numerous circuit boards carrying a multitude of electronic components and several feet of unscreened cabling. Add to this the fact that the makers of the soundcard circuits are not trying to satisfy those with a discerning ear. The users of domestic PCs are, by and large, wanting only to use the sound card to chat to their friends across the web, and to listen to downloaded MP3 files and the deliberately created electronic noise of computer games. They have no real interest in listening to the subtle nuances of the sounds of the natural world or the spoken voice.

When asked about recording the human voice, I always recommend the use of some kind of external digital recorder that captures the sound in a WAV format file and then connects to the PC via a USB cable to transfer the file for further work on it using such as Audacity or Audition.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

peter

a question

i use an optical/usb converter (edirol) to input from my 16 track recorder to my computer.

there are those who input directly into their computers from guitar, mic etc

i have never done it that way (direct input) but i am pretty sure that the converters exist.

there are also usb mics with converters built in.

have you ever tried any of them?

dg

[fh1805]

Dave,

Short answer - No.

Longer answer... Back in the days of all-analogue I used a relatively inexpensive Phillips microphone connected to a TASCAM 24B 4-track open-reel tape recorder and got noise free recordings of my voice. When I moved to digital AV, I tried using the same mic plugged directly into my PC and got masses of hiss and hum. I was advised to try a pre-amp between the mic and the PC so I bought a cheap one from Maplin. That simply added even more noise! I then bought a specialist pre-amp from Howard Gregory. That took me back to the state prior to trying the Maplins pre-amp - i.e. still lots of noise (but Howard's pre-amp wasn't adding any of its own). At that point I sat down and thought the situation through and eventually decided that my PC was adding the noise. At this point I had a brainwave and realised I could try and confirm that. I still had some tape cassette copies of my voice recordings and I still had my TASCAM Portastudio cassette-mixer deck. I set this up and checked the sound quality through the headphone socket of the TASCAM deck -it was noise free. I then connected the TASCAM deck to the PC and recorded the voice track into the PC. Guess what? Massive amounts of hiss and hum! At this point I was satisfied that it was the PC that was the problem and that recording into the PC was going to be a no-go. That's why I bought a USB-connectable, battery-powered, solid-state digital sound recorder (battery-power = no mains hum, solid state = no mechanical noise, USB connect = not recording into PC just transferring a data file). As I have mentioned before on this forum, I chose the Zoom H4 and have been highly delighted with it. It gives me clear, clean recordings of a Robin singing 30 feet up a tree and of our local brass band playing less than 15 feet away in the village hall. Whatever challenge I give it, it rises to the occasion magnificently. When I got it, it was the only such product that was within my budget. There is a much wider selection available now. Oh yes, and it means I can now do location recordings to get ambience etc.

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Peter Have you tried recording directly into audacity using your zoom, I did using my Olympus connected to my LT via USB & couldn't detect any difference.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[davegee]

Agreed, your present setup is much more versatile.

However, for the person who wants to do just voice comments (without the birds and rivers and waves crashing on the shore etc) there are other options which mean that direct to PC is possible without the horrendous background noises which accompany the mic plugged into sound card approach. For instance I could plug a mic into the 16 track and go to the PC via the Optical/USB interface and into PTE in real time.

One more question:

Does the signal into your Zoom recorder go straight through either when recording or not recording?

What I'm thinking is that the A/D converter in the Zoom would allow the recording of voice comments direct through the USB input without the need for Audacity/Audition (all other things being equal!!).

I hope I'm explaining it well?

DG

[gogs]

Why not post a voice sample then Tony & others can judge for themselves?

Yachtsman1

Hi Yachtsman

I will try and post some samples. However I have never attached anything in a post yet and will need to figure out how best to do that (i.e.

just an mp3 sample or avi with some pics of the mic etc). In the meantime there are numerous reviews of the Microphone on youtube and here are three good examples.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GEKRokf3IA

www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7lbrHL4mLQ

www.youtube.com/watch?v=InhS6xOoPwc

gogs

[fh1805]

Peter Have you tried recording directly into audacity using your zoom, I did using my Olympus connected to my LT via USB & couldn't detect any difference.

Hi Eric,

No, I have never tried that. I have found a set up and technique that works for me - and I'm sticking with it.

Peter

[fh1805]

Does the signal into your Zoom recorder go straight through either when recording or not recording?

What I'm thinking is that the A/D converter in the Zoom would allow the recording of voice comments direct through the USB input without the need for Audacity/Audition (all other things being equal!!).

I hope I'm explaining it well?

Dave,

I think you're asking essentially the same question as Eric did above. See my reply to him.

Peter

Footnote to both of you:

When I do a voice recording, all electrical equipment in the studio is switched off. I don't want to have the PC running and risk picking up its fan noise in the background of the recording. As I said to Eric, I've found a way that works and I'm sticking with it.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Yachtsman

I will try and post some samples. However I have never attached anything in a post yet and will need to figure out how best to do that (i.e.

just an mp3 sample or avi with some pics of the mic etc). In the meantime there are numerous reviews of the Microphone on youtube and here are three good examples.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GEKRokf3IA

www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7lbrHL4mLQ

www.youtube.com/watch?v=InhS6xOoPwc

gogs

Hi Gogs

You can download an MP3 sample direct into the forum, same way as a picture, click the browse button, find your MP3 file & up-load it. If you don't see the browse button open the full screen view.

Yachtsman1 http://www.dv247.com/microphones/samson-go-mic-usb-microphone--67146

[davegee]

Thanks Peter,

I agree that you should stick with what suits you.

The information would possibly be of use to myself and others.

DG

[gogs]

Hi

I have made a sound test for the Samson GoMic in both Cardioid and Minus 10db setting. You will note a slight background noise in the cardioid setting which will be the slight hum coming fropm the laptop. However this is eliminated in the sample at the end which is recorded on the minus 10db mode. This is the mode I would use for adding commentary to slideshows. Audio file is in WAV mode

Gogs

[gogs]

Hi

It looks like my attachment didn't work in the last post. I will try again.

gogs

PTE forum sample2.wav

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Gogs

Listened to your recording, IMO it's not bad for the price of the mike, however I got a similar quality with a Logitech USB stick mike which cost around £15. I've attached a copy of a recording I'm preparing for a WIP show, this was recorded with my Olympus recorder mounted on a tripod in front of my PC screen showing the script, with no attemps to damp out ambient sounds. Without reference to the content, let me know what you think. The WAV recording has been imported into Audacity edited then exported as an MP3.

Yachtsman1.

Full ST.mp3