A forum Talking Point

[Barry Beckham]

There has been some recent suggestions/questions asked about the instructional information that is available to PicturesToExe users. Despite it being freely available the newer user of PTE will always need to ask the questions we have heard a 100 times before. Once we have a reasonable knowledge of any software we are using, we can sometimes have trouble understanding why the newer user finds some tasks so baffling. I am speaking in general terms, but that is a fact with anything that is being taught and good teachers are those who can bridge that gap for the student.

A written instruction manual is a great thing in any software, but it often doesn't answer many of the questions the newer user needs addressed. They are often too technical and fail to inform exactly what needs to be done and in what order. The inherent problem that most people will agree with, is that keeping instructional documentation and/or tutorials up to date is quite a challenge. Both in skill and the time taken to create them. Modern software changes so quickly that by the time the doc/tut has been made and proofed, it's virtually out of date. Sometimes the changes to software is minimal enough that the newer user can bridge the gap that has opened up in the documentation/tutorial themselves, but very many can't. It doesn't indicate a lack of intelligence or ability to learn, its just that we are all different and we all learn in different ways.

A 6 step process where the 5^thstep has become out of date can be worse than useless for some people. They waste valuable time up to step 5 and then come to a crashing stop. May as well have not started in the first place. This has happened to me, so I doubt I am unique. One of the other issues which is huge for the newer user in any software is the hundreds of options that are packed into that software. There can often be many different ways to approach the same project and the user can't see the wood for the trees. How do they know which boxes are essential to tick and those that are nice to have, but not important to what they are doing right now? Its why default settings are so important.

Forums can be a blessing, but they can also be a curse. People generally cannot cope with being given many different ways to do the same thing, they just want one. They are not too bothered if it's not the best, or the quickest way. All they want at that stage is a solution to give them a result. In my experience,its often the simplest method that is best given at this stage, not the best one that you have found after years of experience. Those are often too complex for the user, at that stage.

There is a tendency on forums for a number of people to give various different ways to do things and it's done with all the best intentions. However, I think we need to stop and think sometimes and if a new user has been given a solution, then despite the fact we feel we have a better one, we should not complicate things by adding many others.

Then we have to accept that there are many different styles of projects that people are working on from the simple to the complex. From a bit of animation fun, a holiday slideshow, to a major competition entry. How do we create documentation/tutorials for all those eventualities?

I also feel there is still a little too much jargon and abbreviations used on this and other forums. I often see an abbreviation of letters that make me stop and think, what is that? After a few seconds I can often work it out, but sometimes I can't. You see an answer to a question that says, go to the O&A and create multiple key points. You have to be an experienced PTE user to understand that !

In addition to all this, how do we tell if the question being asked is from an experienced user or not? Often the clue is the question and it can be obvious by the very nature of that question that this request is from a newer user. Therefore, we should structure the answer accordingly and keep the number of different ways to achieve the same result to a minimum. Jargon and abbreviations have no place in a thread like this. We can't even assume the user knows what a slide list is.

On top of all this, if this isn't enough, we have the added complication of dealing with the creative aspects of the software. Igor has said , that he didn't envisage his software being used in some ways he has seen.

So, for those of us who like to help and answer queries, perhaps we all need to think about the question asked more carefully and how it should be addressed. Can I suggest that you don't assume a knowledge that may not be there and if a workable solution has already been given, resist the urge to add loads of others.

[coopernatural]

Anybody want to buy a tutorial disc?

Alert!

[Conflow]

Barry,

I completely and absolutely agree with you and may I add a few points of my own as follows:-

1)

Forum-Discussions are always extremely limited due to "time-out" factors and "space restrictions" and

because "text discussions" in any language are not ideal because the constraints of dialect and level

of technical competance usually give rise to misunderstanding's which have to be qualified before any

worthwhile meaning's can be extracted from the written text.

2)

Tutorials also fall foul of these constraints because they assume a level of basic "technical competance"

which the reader may not have ~ particularily if they encounter a Program for the 1st time.

PTE is no exception to these fundamental communication flaws, but having said that other Software-Vendors

have realised the value of a 'Basic-Program' and an 'Advanced-Program' usually called their 'Pro-Version'.

Note

I have always advocated that WnSoft should offer a basic program ~ call it "PTE-Basic.5"....(No Video)

And to cater for the advanced user they should offer a ++Program ~ call it "PTE-Pro.7".......(Full Video)

This is the modern methodology used by Software-Vendors in providing the Novice & Advanced user programs

suitable to personal requirements ~ in this situation Tutorials would be meaningfull to that Program in usage.

The "Forum Front Page" should ask readers:- "Tick the version of of PTE you are using" ~ whereafter they are

connected to that Forum-Page with an available down-loadable PDF-Tutorial. Others are doing it why not PTE ?

Brian (Conflow)

P.S.

I wonder why this Topic has been moved to "Ideas & Suggestions for Next Version" which

is completely irrelevant to the topic which has enough merit for Front-Page discussion ??

[Ken Cox]

BRIAN

PEOPLE CAN ALWAYS USE 4.48 – THEY SHOULD LEARN TO WALK BEFORE TRYING THE MARATHON -- Chariots of Fire

BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE THE LATEST AND GREATEST – THAT IS HUMAN NATURE

you wrote a tutorial in 2004 on how to run a manual show -- if people had enabled the nav bar features, it would have sufficed -- it is only the last year or so that people have started to use its features -- your proggie was in  the ver 4 era and here we are ver 7.0.4 -- some of the versions took +- 20 beta's to get to final KEN

[fh1805]

With respect Ken, people cannot use v4.48 because it is not readily available. A new user will be downloading the trial copy from www.wnsoft.com and trying to get to grips with that. Like Brian, I agree with Barry's views. Also, like Brian, I do not understand why this topic is now in Ideas and suggestions for future releases. It has no relevance to the inclusion of new function in a future release. It is about how we, on this forum, conduct ourselves in respect of the other members of the forum community - and especially towards those who need our help the most: the new users. I would add to the points raised by Barry and Brian the additional point: not all forum users are English-speaking. Those replying to posts from such forum members need to consider very carefully the choice of words and phraseology that they use, in anticipation that the forum member may be using translation tools.

[Ken Cox]

Dear Peter

it has no business in the general operation of the program

it is a thought or suggestion

same as your suggestion about about a better help method -- it did not fly very far did it - there are people that written me long before you came along stating they were not going to participate in the forum anymore because of the same old same old day after day -- people to lazy to look - just as you were told the other day

Maybe Igor will reissue ver 5 with a bare bones feature

anybody wants ver 4.48 /4.49 there are lots of us that would likely help them out and i imagine there are tutorials that are applicable out there -- i imagine Barry would fix them up for a few quid quicker than you could blink

giday

ken

[stonemason]

Ken with all due respect, I think that you are in very dangerous territory with your suggestion that people should use version 4.48, before they use version 7. When people make a decision to part with their hard earned cash for a piece of software, they expect to receive the very latest that software has to offer. Their opinion of the publishers of that software is very much determined by that initial contact and the service and support they receive in the first few months. I really cannot see the likes of Microsoft saying to its customers, "yes you can purchase windows 7, however you must first get to grips with windows for workgroups before you can begin to use it to its full potential". I also agree with Peter and Brian that this topic should be in the main PTE forum where it will get maximum exposure.

Geoff

[Ken Cox]

Geoff

Barry's views are greater than 200 and Peter's is nearly 200 views - not bad for 2-3 days

we continually hear that each version is too far advanced for most - me included - the only reason i update is to try to understand the problems being talked about so that i can make a reasonable suggestion at times -- it may have happened to me -- earlier today a member had trouble logging in - it has happened to me - i think if i have not used a particular browser/system combination it makes me log in -- i switch between xp and safari/ie8/chrome --and win7 ie 9 /firefox - Ron West talked me into using the different browsers - i hesitated at first but glad i made the move as i can help more people with what i have observed

so back to PTE

nobody forced people to update to the latest - they made a personal choice but they could have kept the older versions to fall back on if they got stuck -- it takes a little bit of thought tho'

as to the location of the thread this area is for suggestions for future versions

Barry's opening line

Posted Yesterday, 08:47 PM

"There has been some recent suggestions/questions asked about the instructional information that is available to PicturesToExe users."

it has nothing to do with the present - it is a suggestion that in the future we do things differently

this and Peter's are very popular threads -- just look at the view #'s

[Ken Cox]

Just found out that editing in the above entry with xp /safari the entry ended up with a whole bunch of html formatting

to clear it i cut the the complete entry opened a text editor and pasted the contents - then copied the un html text, opened ie 8 went to the thread cleared the entry and pasted the clipboard

voila

success

ken

[Barry Beckham]

Peter - I did remember the language thing and told myself to mention that, then forgot all about it. Thanks for adding it in. Yes it is about how we, on this or any forum, conduct ourselves in respect of the other members and that if we are not careful, in our eagerness to help we can often hinder.

[Lin Evans]

So let's get back to the original question. What are the proposals to prevent multiple answers to questions which have multiple answers? PTE, like many software programs allows numerous ways to do things. How would it be possible to avoid telling a new user more than one way to proceed and do we really want to do that?

The idea in my opinion is to make it as easy as possible for a new user to approach a particular problem. Yes, we can avoid using terms with which the new user may not be familiar, but are we actually solving a real "problem" here or creating a straw man issue. Have there been any complaints about the way users have answered questions?

It seems that helping people via a forum is actually an iterative process. One gives a suggestion, asks some questions or asks for more clarification then gives suggestions on how to proceed. I don't recall any complaints or any particular confusion which hasn't been rather quickly addressed.

No system is perfect. We do our best to point the new user in the right direction and a good start is to point them to the free tutorials and articles where they can start at the beginning and work their way through the process of learning the various features and process involved in creating a slide show. Other than improve the help within PTE, I'm not sure that there is much more which can be done, but I'm open to suggestion.

Best regards,

Lin

[Tony Falla]

I have to say that personally I disagree with Barry, I find that I use the manual, the FAQ and the forum to find out how to do something that I haven't done before. Yes you can get the situation where something described in the manual / FAQ's no longer works in exactly the same way, but the manual is a pointer to how it was done and I find I can usually fathom out what I should do. If not then a simple question on the forum usually supplies the correct method. As to people giving several ways in which a particular aim can be achieved I personally find that very helpful. None of us do everything in exactly the same way and if you are presented with several alternatives you try them and then decide which suits your particular style of working.

I'm sorry Ken but I cannot see the point of sticking with an older version of PTE because you don't use the more up to date features. Currently I am using the latest version even though I have no plans in the immediate future to use video in my sequences. If I were to stick to an older version then sometime in the future when I may decide I want to use video, not only do I have to learn how to do that but I will also have to update myself on the features I do use that have changed since I last updated.

Tony Falla

[Ken Cox]

but Tony

you are not complaining about the program advancing too quickly -- you are trying what interests you and listening to the answers for future

ken

[Ronniebootwest]

Hi Barry,

I knew, as soon as I read your post, that it would make a whole load of people respond - you have the knack!

Well done anyway, it is time that this kind of discussion was debated I think.

Brian,

You say that new users may sometimes find it difficult to understand the tutorials that are available, I agree with you because I have been baffled by some myself.

That is the one main reason why I, up until recently, I made my own pdf's available to forum members, free of any charge.

I pride myself on providing easy to understand tutorials aimed at basic and advanced users alike and, judging by the comments on my web site, most agree with me.

I will watch this topic every day because it will run and run.

Ronnie West

[Barry Beckham]

I don't have any solutions, even if there is a problem. Just pointing out what I see and what I have experienced quite a few times when I have needed a question asked. (not on this forum though)

A question was answered recently by a regular member, but in that case I thought I had a better way to to the same, but it would be more complicated than the answer given. It was fairly obvioous that the person asking the question was knew to PTE. I chose not to add an alternative to those answers already given, as it tends to look like a one upmaship race and may not help the newer user.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Thinking about the problem of advising members how to accomplish a particular action, when I try to answer a problem, if I can determine whether the person asking is a new or experienced member, will point me to how to answer the question, fully or briefly. When I was working as a Project Manager, I sometimes would travel to various sites with one of my companies sales people, one of those in particular taught me a great deal about selling & how to convince customers to go for the scheme we were proposing. Putting it simply "A picture is worth a thousand words". I sometimes cringe when people answering questions flex their verbal dexterity with a protracted diatribe (Long Winded) explanation of how to accomplish what they are being asked, when a couple of screen shots of the explanation they are providing would help more than a string of technicalities and abbreviations. Another pet hate is the one line explanation pointing the asker to a link or previous thread or threads where the poor newcomer has to wade through a mass of info that may well have now been superseded. Surely it would be more instructive for the person answering the question to take a little time in providing a pictorial answer, than one that is sometimes difficult to interpret, being first with the explanation is not always the best. . The pictorial explanations could be then placed in the FAQ section and ammended as the software progresses, leaving the the original explanation with the prefix for the version it applies to.

Yachtsman1.

[Ken Cox]

Eric

and what do you do when they dont know how to do a screen shot or to upload it to the forum

if possible i will continue to direct them to a link where the subject has been answered, rather than write an essay

ken

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Ken

I'd write an faq on how to ask a question & include screen shots/print screen

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Ken

Check out

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[Ken Cox]

ERIC

newbie may have not found the faq section yet

ken

[Guest Yachtsman1]

You are clutching at straws

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[Ken Cox]

you are wrong - i read every posting not just the ones i am interested in --that is why over the years i have advocted for members to practice "RATS" in order to keep abreat of what is going on

when one sees an answer by someone that was just answered +-2 entries before, it becomes obvious

end of discussion -- lets move on

ken

[Conflow]

Hi All,

Picking up on one subject within this Topic-discussion,viz:- Screenshots ~ "A Picture is worth a thousand Words"

I have always used that logic and always use Screenshots to dynamically illustrate that of the written word and

judging by the amount of downloads of my Screenshots it seems to be a very acceptable way of explaining things.

For those of you who want to use Screenshots but dont know what are accetable Image-Sizes for Forums,EMail etc;

I have posted a new topic on the Forum,titled:- "Automatic Image Resizer" which will do the job for you....

Hope it helps,

Brian.(Conflow)

Link