Jerky start to video playback

[fh1805]

I'm experimenting with video clips for the first time. I have captured a short video (hand held) using my Nikon D300s. This uploads into the computer as an AVI file. I have trimmed the beginning and the end of this video clip using ViewNX2 software and saved the result, as a MOV file (the only file type supported for output). I have created a simple test project in PTE (black slide, the trimmed video clip, black slide). When adding the video clip, PTE suggested that I should have the file converted. I allowed this to happen and have used the resultant AVI file in the sequence. When I Preview the sequence, or play it in the mini-viewer, there is a very abrupt jump at the beginning. When I play the same AVI file in either ViewNX2 or Windows Media Player, it runs smoothly from start to end. Any thoughts as to what the problem might be?

If I use the original .MOV file that ViewNX2 produced, instead of the converted AVI version that PTE produced, there is no jerkiness at all in Preview, O&A or mini-player. It would seem that the jerky playback is a direct consequence of the conversion from MOV to AVI done by PTE.

regards,

Peter

[jeanhum]

Hello Peter,

I was just wondering myself the same question.

After reading your post, I replaced the converted.avi video file with the original mp4 file and fad-in transition is far much better.

Jean

[davegee]

Peter,

Look at the File Sizes (Before and After) - if there is little or no advantage, then use the MOV File?

Possibility - Ask Igor to check a short file from the D300s.

Is anyone else here using a D300s for Video and getting problem/no problem?

D300s Movie is 1280x720 - are you filling a 1920x1080 screen with it?

DG

[fh1805]

Hi Dave,

Look at the File Sizes (Before and After) - if there is little or no advantage, then use the MOV File?

The converted files are only 66% the size of the originals.

D300s Movie is 1280x768 - are you filling a 1920x1080 screen with it?

D300s movie is 1280 x 720 actually, and no, I've set them to 100% in the "Size and Position" window so they are at their true pixel count size.

And I've just spotted another little quirk. The options in ViewNX2 for outputting MOV files are 24fps, 25fps or 30fps. I've tried both 24 and 25 so far. The 24fps is the one giving me the problem. The 25fps plays OK even if converted. However, there's yet another quirk: the Properties tab of the 24fps MOV file shows it to be actually 23 fps!!! (The 25fps MOV shows as 25fps in its Properties tab). As Alice would have said in Wonderland: "Curiouser and curiouser!"

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Hi Dave,

The converted files are only 66% the size of the originals.

That's a relatively small advantage.

D300s movie is 1280 x 720 actually, and no, I've set them to 100% in the "Size and Position" window so they are at their true pixel count size.

Yes, I corrected myself while you were writing.

And I've just spotted another little quirk. The options in ViewNX2 for outputting MOV files are 24fps, 25fps or 30fps. I've tried both 24 and 25 so far. The 24fps is the one giving me the problem. The 25fps plays OK even if converted. However, there's yet another quirk: the Properties tab of the 24fps MOV file shows it to be actually 23 fps!!! (The 25fps MOV shows as 25fps in its Properties tab). As Alice would have said in Wonderland: "Curiouser and curiouser!"

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the small details - use what works!

I still think that there is a case for sending a short file to Igor and ask him to check it out. He cured a problem that I had with an MOV file that I had early on.

DG.

P.S. The files out of the S9100 are .MOV / 29FPS / 1920x1080 and are smaller than the converted versions - BOTH play fine.

[jeanhum]

You're right Peter

Converted 24fps mp4 files do have problem

Converted 30fps mp4 files do'nt have this jerky problem

Thoses files were created with Nikon D90 camera (mov files), then arranged with adobe premiere and finaly reencoded with freemake video converter.

Jean

[goddi]

I'm experimenting with video clips for the first time. I have captured a short video (hand held) using my Nikon D300s. This uploads into the computer as an AVI file. I have trimmed the beginning and the end of this video clip using ViewNX2 software and saved the result, as a MOV file (the only file type supported for output). I have created a simple test project in PTE (black slide, the trimmed video clip, black slide). When adding the video clip, PTE suggested that I should have the file converted. I allowed this to happen and have used the resultant AVI file in the sequence. When I Preview the sequence, or play it in the mini-viewer, there is a very abrupt jump at the beginning. When I play the same AVI file in either ViewNX2 or Windows Media Player, it runs smoothly from start to end. Any thoughts as to what the problem might be?

If I use the original .MOV file that ViewNX2 produced, instead of the converted AVI version that PTE produced, there is no jerkiness at all in Preview, O&A or mini-player. It would seem that the jerky playback is a direct consequence of the conversion from MOV to AVI done by PTE.

regards,

Peter

=======================

Peter,

I don't know why you are getting the abrupt jump with your video. But I have been including videos in my exes for a little while now and have not had any problem similar to yours. Perhaps it is the trimming process in ViewNX2? Just as an alternative here is what I have been doing and having a lot of success with my videos.

My camera is the Nikon D7000. Its output format is MOV. I use the free Freemake Video Converter program. I use it to trim and to convert my MOVs to MP4. For example, an MOV that is 2,261,842Kb gets reduced to an MP4 at 439,875Kb (HD1080p, H.264). I don't bother letting PTE do its 'converting' to AVI. I just use the MP4 file. I have found that sometimes the PTE's 'converted' file size is a bit smaller, other times it is a bit larger. In an Igor reply to me, about this converting process, he stated:

http://www.picturest...4643#entry94643

"The main purpose of the video conversion is to optimize playback of video clips in slideshows. Especially for shows in executable files. Optimized video clips require lower CPU usage and provide faster rewinding.

Optimized video clips can have larger or smaller file size than original video clip. It depends on a bitrate of source file. For example digital cameras use high values - about 40 mbit per second for 1080p video. Whereas video editors can suggest 15-25 mbit by default.

Digital cameras have to record video stream in realtime, they have limited battery and slow hardware to compress video. High bitrate compensates these restrictions. In a software encoder we have much powerful CPU and more time to analyze video stream to more optimally compress video picture.

Imagine that you're packing a suitcase for a travel. Quickly drop all items (goods) in a random order? Or put accurately all items according their sizes that take more time. Two ways - quick result but large bag (more bags) or more time and smaller bag.

By the way, competing slideshow product also performs automatic optimization of video clips. But as I discovered with worst visual quality than PicturesToExe does."

I have not had any problem with the MP4s playing smoothly in PTE's exes. All fade-in and out transitions have been perfect. Perhaps, if one's video card is not up to some standard, the PTE 'converting' process would give a positive advantage, but I have not had that problem. Maybe the conversion from AVI to MOV created the problem? I'd try converting the original AVI to MP4 with Freemake Video Converter to see what happens.

I don't know if this helps in anyway but so far, adding video to the PTE's have been a lot of fun and without any real problems for me.

Gary

Added later: I notice that the original 'frame rate' of my D7000 is 23.98. Freemake Video Converter uses that same rate in its conversion process. Not sure if this means anything but some others mentioned frame rates.

Correction: I don't know where I got the 23.98 frame rate. I rechecked and the D7000's frame rate is 29.97 and Freemake Video Converter retains that frame rate when it does a conversion to MP4.

[fh1805]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the small details - use what works!

And how do you square that philosophy with your oft-quoted desire to achieve the very best possible quality? If there is some kind of bug or operator error at work here, I feel I need to understand it so that I can try and achieve the best possible quality with the equipment that I have.

regards,

Peter

[fh1805]

Gary/Jean,

Thanks for the contributions! I now realise only too well that I have just taken the first small step onto a very long and very steep learning curve; and I suspect the journey is going to be both fun and frustrating (probably in equal measure to begin with!).

Peter

[davegee]

My "oft-quoted desire to achieve the very best possible quality" applies to JPEGs and not to Video, which I have not really any desire to incorporate into PTE shows. (ooh you are awful!............)

I believe that if you look back at previous posts Igor advised 24fps for PAL MPEG4 - the S9100 produces acceptable results when inserted at the native 30fps (for testing purposes) so I don't worry about it.

I have bigger issues with smooth pans and zooms when shooting Movies - when I crack that, I'll worry about the technicalities of fps and MOV vs AVI etc.

BTW I'm talking about inserting MOV SOOC into PTE and using PTE to do the trimming - I don't see the point in using ANY Video Editing Software when PTE will do it for you. If you need to keep file sizes down, that's different but if the output is MP4 then there's no penalty for using the originals (quote from Lin). The more you play with the files the more trouble you are likely to (but not necessarily will) get.

DG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Gary/Jean,

Thanks for the contributions! I now realise only too well that I have just taken the first small step onto a very long and very steep learning curve; and I suspect the journey is going to be both fun and frustrating (probably in equal measure to begin with!).

Peter

Hi Peter, something odd here, I've just converted a short PTE show to widescreen, it's still in my WIP folder so after reading your post I thought I would try adding the only short video clip I made using my previous D5000 which is saved straight out of the camera and added straight into the slide list of the unfinished project, it works a treat, fades in & out no jerks. It's a 33mb clip or I would have attached it to this post, if you like I can Mediafire it & let you have the link to try for yourself. Alternatively, try your clip as it was saved out of the camera.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[fh1805]

I have bigger issues with smooth pans and zooms when shooting Movies - when I crack that, I'll worry about the technicalities of fps and MOV vs AVI etc.

Dave,

Don't forget the old film-maker's advice: it's the subject that moves, not the camera!

Peter

[davegee]

Agreed - I envisage using video as a background rather than as the "main event". But a nice slow pan would be good.

What about this business of trimming in PTE and using the Movie SOOC - have you tried that?

DG

[fh1805]

Yes, I have just given that a twirl. It worked A-OK and the quality seems to be just a wee bit better than any other way of doing it. Now all I need is some "real" video to play around with instead of the hand-held pan around the living room. (See, I don't practice what I preach, either!)

Peter

[Lin Evans]

Hi guys,

One of the things which you will eventually run into is the need to "stabilize" your videos. Though there are numerous software "solutions" out there for that purpose, Adobe After Effects has, by far, the finest way of doing it. It's called "warp." Of course After Effects is over $1,000.00 U.S. and beyond my means, but they do "rent" the software for about $40 per month. I have a friend who does videos on the west coast (San Francisco area) and he does them that way. He simply saves his work which needs stabilizing (walking around hand -held shots or not too smooth head on tripod, etc) then when he has a dozen or so, he rents After Effects and does the stabilization. Also there is a 30 day free trial available. After Effects will not work with any Windows OS less than Vista, so we old XP folk are out of luck.

Best regards,

Lin

Yes, I have just given that a twirl. It worked A-OK and the quality seems to be just a wee bit better than any other way of doing it. Now all I need is some "real" video to play around with instead of the hand-held pan around the living room. (See, I don't practice what I preach, either!)

Peter

[cgbraggjr]

I'm including more and more video on my "slide shows" and use Mercalli for stabilization. Since I don't have a video editor that can use it as an add-in I bought the standalone version (works just as well) and paid under $150 for it. When you need stabilization, you really need it.

[jeanhum]

The problem Peter highlighted occurs with 24fps video clips, where PTE converter produces fade-in glitches.

I am using a D90 Nikon camera which produces 24fps MOV clips (no other choice) and will get the problem when inserting in PTE slideShow as PTE will automatically convert it.

Jean

[fh1805]

Jean,

You should get an option to use the original at the point when PTE recommends conversion. Have you tried using the original?

Peter

[RobertAlbright]

The frame rate and shutter speed recommended by experts for shooting video with a DSLR is 25fps at 1/50/sec. This enables easy calculations for the camera and in post production (x2). Here is an extract from the Wikipedia text on frame rates. PAL is the European TV system, NTSC the USA version:

As of 2012, there are three main frame rate standards in the TV and movie-making business: 24p, 25p, and 30p. 35 mm movie cameras use a standard exposure rate of 24 FPS, though many cameras offer rates of 23.976 FPS for NTSC television and 25 FPS for PAL/SECAM. The 24 FPS rate became the de facto standard for sound motion pictures in the mid-1920s.[2] 25p runs 25 progressive frames per second. This frame rate derives from the PAL television standard of 50i (50 interlaced fields per second). Film and Television companies use this rate in 50 Hz regions for direct compatibility with television field and frame rates. Conversion for 60 Hz countries is enabled by slowing down the media to 24p then converted to 60 Hz systems using pulldown. While 25p captures half the temporal resolution or motion that normal 50i PAL registers, it yields a higher vertical spacial resolution per frame. Like 24p, 25p is often used to achieve "cine"-look, albeit with virtually the same motion artifacts. It is also better suited to progressive-scan output (e.g., on LCD displays, computer monitors and projectors) because the interlacing is absent.

30p is a progressive format and produces video at 30 frames per second. Progressive (noninterlaced) scanning mimics a film camera's frame-by-frame image capture. The effects of inter-frame judder are less noticeable than 24p yet retains a cinematic-like appearance. Shooting video in 30p mode gives no interlace artifacts but can introduce judder on image movement and on some camera pans

[fh1805]

The frame rate and shutter speed recommended by experts for shooting video with a DSLR is 25fps at 1/50/sec.

Robert,

I found and read that Wikipedia article, too. However, it is a pity that the camera makers do not follow the advice given there. My Nikon D300s shoots at 24fps and I cannot change that.

Peter

[davegee]

I suspect that this is the reason why Igor created the Converter to give us optimum performance?

DG

[goddi]

Robert,

I found and read that Wikipedia article, too. However, it is a pity that the camera makers do not follow the advice given there. My Nikon D300s shoots at 24fps and I cannot change that.

Peter

===============================

Greetings,

With all this talk about frame rates, I went back and re-checked what the frame rate is on my Nikon D7000. Previously, I posted that it was 23.98. But now I don't know where I got the 23.98 frame rate figure. I just rechecked and the D7000's frame rate is actually 29.97 and Freemake Video Converter retains that frame rate when it does a conversion to MP4.

Gary

[davegee]

Hi Gary,

It IS 23.98fps - for both NTSC and PAL 1920x1080 (24p) but there are also 30p and 25p options - page 313 of the Manual.

DG

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

It IS 23.98fps - for both NTSC and PAL 1920x1080 (24p) but there are also 30p and 25p options - page 313 of the Manual.

DG

============================

DG,

Yes, I now see that. Thanks. What happened was that I looked at what I shot a few days ago and it showed the 23.98 frame rate. And then I looked at what I shot several months ago and those videos show 29.97. So now I am totally confused. Both camera's video settings were the same. I have always set the D7000 at the highest movie setting- "1920x1080; 24 fps; high quality". Can you explain why the camera's video results are at two different frame rates???

Gary

[davegee]

I don't have a D7000 and don't want to guess but the obvious answer seems to be that at some stage you altered SOMETHING?

Have you altered from NTSC to PAL or vice versa etc?

Perhaps the EXIF would give a clue?

DG