Jerky start to video playback

[goddi]

I don't have a D7000 and don't want to guess but the obvious answer seems to be that at some stage you altered SOMETHING?

Have you altered from NTSC to PAL or vice versa etc?

Perhaps the EXIF would give a clue?

DG

==========================

DG,

This is getting interesting. No, I am sure I have not altered anything. All are Straight Out Of the Camera MOV's. I just gave a call to Nikon tech and they could not come up with any ideas. They said to send them two of the videos and they will look at the data. They are so big, I have not done that yet...not sure if I can send such large files.

Anyway, it reminded me that I have ViewNX2, so I looked at the video data with it. The first videos I took on vacation show all the data, including the frame rate of 29.97. However, the data for the recent videos only show a few items, like file name, size, date created, date modified, file size and duration, no other info. Hmmmmm.... I will try to get more info from Nikon but this is strange.

I put the data in Word files, attached.

Gary

Video 1-29.97fps.doc

Video 2-23.98fps.doc

[Lin Evans]

Hi Guys,

An "expressed" frame rate of 30 fps is "actually" 29.97 fps. The number "30" is commonly used for convenience.

Lin

[davegee]

We agree Lin.

At present we are trying to figure out why Gary's MOV's have mysteriously changed from 24p to 30p.

DG

[davegee]

Gary,

There is no info in the second file.

DG

[fh1805]

...Both camera's video settings were the same.

Gary,

Please confirm what EXACTLY you mean by this: the settings on both cameras or... the settings on the camera on both occasions. Which? Looking at your file names I would suspect two different cameras: possibly a D100 and some other camera.

If you did use two different cameras, it is not surprising that they have different settings for their video files.

Peter

[goddi]

Gary,

Please confirm what EXACTLY you mean by this: the settings on both cameras or... the settings on the camera on both occasions. Which? Looking at your file names I would suspect two different cameras: possibly a D100 and some other camera.

If you did use two different cameras, it is not surprising that they have different settings for their video files.

Peter

=====================

Greetings Peter, DG and Lin,

Oh, do I feel like I should hide my head. Peter, you hit the nail on the head. Actually, I was using 3 different cameras that take video; a Nikon D7000, a Nikon AW100 and a Kodak Play Sport. I could not see the forest for the trees. The file name's beginning designations were different and I just did not notice that. I was SURE that the video files that I was comparing were both from the D7000....but not. Sorry for the confusion. Here are examples of the different video files with the frame rates:

Nikon D7000 = DSC_9745.MOV = frame rate of 23

Nikon AW100 = DSCN0400.MOV = frame rate of 29

Kodak Sport Play = 100_077.MOV = frame rate of 29

The videos from each of these cameras are so good it is hard to tell the difference in quality.

Thanks Peter...

Gary

[goddi]

Hi Guys,

An "expressed" frame rate of 30 fps is "actually" 29.97 fps. The number "30" is commonly used for convenience.

Lin

===========================

Lin,

I thought your posting made sense and that it was just a way of rounding or 'expressing' the decimal numbers up to a whole number and the frame rates were actually the same.

However, I was just playing around with a video converter program that shows the whole number AND the decimal number of the frame rates. They show, for example, 23.97, 24, 29.97 and 39 fps (see attached). So are these 'whole number' frame rates the same as the 'decimal number' frame rates or is there some distinction between these frame rates that we should be aware of when we are converting our videos for PTE (I am converting my MOV's to MP4's)???

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

The only one I'm certain of is 30 fps is actually 29.97 fps. "Probably" the others are likewise, but I can't say from experience because I only use 30 and 60 myself. I'm far from an expert on video and I tend to stick with what I find to work well.

Best regards,

Lin

[goddi]

Greetings,

Well, I poked around converting a Straight Out Of the Camera (SOOC) MOV video that has a fps of 29.

I converted it to a 30 fps video. Properties/Details show it as a 30 fps video. Ok, makes sense.

I also converted it to a 24 fps video. Properties/Details show it as a 24 fps video. Ok, makes sense.

However, I then converted to to a 23.97 fps video. Properties/Details show it as 23 fps video.

So perhaps a 24 fps is not the same as a 23.97 fps video? Perhaps a '23 fps' is actually '23.97'???

I am hoping someone who understands this stuff would clear the air. I am totally confused. Sure,some things work and we tend to do what does work but it would be nice to understand what might work better and why it does or does not work.

Gary

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Gary, the world may end tomorrow, so stop worrying.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[nobeefstu]

Gary,

Maybe this bit of reading will help you understand some of the basics. Video can be challenging because of all the variables and technical aspects involved.

Understanding Frames Per Second (FPS)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/269068

Frame rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

This also might help you understand the 29.97 versus 30 numbers being bantered about:

"

About Drop Frame and Non-Drop Frame Timecode

NTSC video (black-and-white) originally had a frame rate of 30 fps, so the timecode counted at 30 fps. However, NTSC color video (the only kind of NTSC video in use today), has a frame rate of 29.97 fps. This subtle difference between 30 fps and 29.97 fps seems practically negligible and, in many cases, ignoring this discrepancy is fine. But not always. What editors needed, especially in expensive broadcast markets, was timecode that accurately reflected the exact duration of a program on tape.

There are two types of 30 fps timecode for use with NTSC video: non-drop frame and drop frame. Non-drop frame timecode is simple: for every frame of video, there is a corresponding timecode number. The timecode increments without any compensation. In almost all cases, timecode is non-drop frame. In fact, drop frame timecode only matters in the case of NTSC video.

Drop frame timecode compensates for the fact that the NTSC format has a frame rate of 29.97 fps, which is .03 fps slower than the nearest whole number frame rate of 30 fps. Timecode can only be represented by whole numbers, so timecode numbers are periodically skipped in drop frame timecode. This way, the timecode number always matches the seconds and minutes of video that have played. NTSC can use either drop frame or non-drop frame timecode.

Important: No video frames are dropped when you use drop frame timecode. Only the associated timecode numbers are skipped.

You can think of drop frame timecode as being like leap years on the calendar. In the case of leap years, an extra day is added every 4 years except when the year is divisible by 400. This compensates for the fact that the way days are measured and the way years are measured do not align exactly. Even though the difference is slight, an unacceptable error accumulates over time unless regular adjustments are made to the count.

More About Drop Frame Timecode and the NTSC Frame Rate

NTSC video has a frame rate of 29.97 fps, but the timecode counts at 30 fps. To better understand this subtle distinction, remember that the main purpose of timecode is to uniquely label and address each video frame, not to tell time (another name for timecode is address code).

Consider what it would be like if frames were labeled a different way, without any reference to time. For example, if each frame had a unique address coded with five letters of the alphabet, starting at AAAAA, AAAAB, AAAAC, and so on until ZZZZZ, editors would refer to shots and scenes by their individual five-letter codes. A director requesting a particular shot could look in the log notes and tell the editor to find frame ABAAA on a particular tape.

On tape or disk, each frame lasts 1/29.97 of a second. Since there is an address affixed to each frame, the timecode moves at the same rate as the video (29.97 fps).

Now, instead of using a five-letter code to uniquely tag each frame, consider using an address code in the format 00:00:00:00. Remember that these numbers don’t reflect time; they are simply unique identifiers. The first frame of NTSC video is labeled 00:00:00:00. The 29th frame is labeled 00:00:00:29, and the 30th frame is labeled 00:00:01:00. Again, just because a frame is labeled 00:00:01:00 does not mean that 1 second has passed. The frame could just as easily have been named AAABD, in which case there would be no temptation to read the label as a time value. Only the frame rate of the video can determine how much time has passed by the 30th frame. In the case of NTSC video, 0.999 seconds have passed by frame 30. By frame 1800, 60.06 seconds have passed."

Best regards,

LIn

[RobertAlbright]

I don't think Gary is now going to get any sleep during the entire Easter holiday

[goddi]

Greetings,

Yachtsman1 and Robert,

I am not worrying, just curious. But I don't think your comments encourage people who want to understand things they don't understand. And I am not just blindly asking questions. I have done a lot of researching the Internet before I ask the question but what I am trying to find out is how all this information applies directly to PTE. There is lots of info out there but how different video settings work best with PTE is the big question.

Lin and Nobeefstu,

Thanks for the detailed postings. This is very good info but what I am trying to understand is how it applies to getting the best results in PTE. Peter was trying different frame rates. Some worked; others did not. One of his 24 fps video's showed in his Properties tab to be 23 fps. Why? And a video of mine that is a 23.97 fps shows up on Properties tab as 23 fps. Why? Can we trust the Properties tab to give precise info? Perhaps not? If some of our videos are 23.97 or 24 fps or 25 fps, should we convert them to 29.97?

Lots of questions. Maybe it is only me that is in the dark. Not too many people are apparently dealing with video in their PTE shows. I am sure as others dabble with video, more questions (and answers) will come up….I hope.

Thanks… Gary

[fh1805]

...I am sure as others dabble with video, more questions (and answers) will come up...

Which is what started this topic off in the first place! I have started to dabble in video; and had some questions for which I was seeking answers.

The answers, as I have come to understand them are:

- 23fps, 24fps and 23.97fps (or whatever the decimal fraction value is) are synonymous as far as the info in the Properties display is concerned

- 30fps and 29.97fps (or whatever the decimal fraction value is) are synonymous as far as the info in the Properties display is concerned

- 25fps is 25fps come what may

The remaining question was:

- In terms of the output from my Nikon D300s, which is best for PTE: the file as originally written or that same file converted (and probably deliberately trimmed by me) to some other format/size/shape/resolution/whatever?

I looked around and asked around for recommendations on a suitable free video editor. I was pointed at two products: AVIDEMUX and ViewNX2. I tried both. AVIDEMUX crashed when I asked it to open a video file taken on my D300s. That behaviour ruled it out straight away. ViewNX2 will convert those same files to MOV format; BUT... there is significant loss of image quality (to me, unacceptable loss).

I also tried letting PTE convert the file. Again this gave unacceptable quality. However, on thinking back over this, I was giving PTE the file output by ViewNX2. I was giving PTE poor quality and getting poor quality. I need to do a re-test giving PTE the native file from the camera to convert. However, giving PTE the original file and telling it not to convert it gives very acceptable results; so this might be the way forward for me.

I will be more than happy to use PTE to do minor trims on video clips that are only a little too long for my needs. However, I still need to find a video file editor that will trim the files produced by the Nikon D300s whilst retaining the existing quality. No conversion, no frame rate change, just take the start and end frames off at the points I specify and save the remaining frames as a new file of identical specification to the original.

Peter

[goddi]

...I will be more than happy to use PTE to do minor trims on video clips that are only a little too long for my needs. However, I still need to find a video file editor that will trim the files produced by the Nikon D300s whilst retaining the existing quality. No conversion, no frame rate change, just take the start and end frames off at the points I specify and save the remaining frames as a new file of identical specification to the original.

Peter

===================================

Peter,

Thanks for your reply.

As far as trimming video clips and keeping the original quality, fps, etc., I have mentioned before my favorite free program for doing this, Freemake Video Converter:

http://www.freemake.com/

I am now working on a slideshow and I have several videos in it. I am trying to keep the file size under 100mb so I reduced the videos from HD1080p to HD720p using Freemake. It helped to get the file size down and I don't really seen much if any quality reduction. But for posting on Beechbrook, I am trying to make it as light as I can.

Give Freemake a try to see if you agree with the quality. You can also do many different conversions and specifications if you want to dabble with it.

Gary

[fh1805]

Thanks Gary. If this Easter weekend continues wet, as it has been today, I might just resort to that to keep me occupied.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Beware, I just looked at it & it wants to take over your PC

Yachtsman1.

[goddi]

Beware, I just looked at it & it wants to take over your PC

Yachtsman1.

=================

Are you talking about the Freemake Video Converter program???

Gary

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Gary

Yes the one from your link.

Eric

Yachtsman1.

[goddi]

Gary

Yes the one from your link.

Eric

Yachtsman1.

===========================

Eric,

Most software now have these tricky little add ons. All you have to do is to untick the appropriate boxes. I just downloaded its updated version and unticked the boxes of the stuff I don't want and it installed just fine with no added programs. Yes, you have to be careful but that goes for many of the programs you download nowadays.

In this case with Freemake, be sure to untick the 'Quick Installation', select the 'Parameters Settings', untick the 'Install Bing Bar', untick the Plugins and away you go. No big deal.

Gary

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Gary, what about the Funmoods Toolbar which comes with the installation as standard???

Eric

Yachtsman1.

[goddi]

Gary, what about the Funmoods Toolbar which comes with the installation as standard???

Eric

Yachtsman1.

============================

Eric,

You must have done something different then what I did. I checked my Plug-in, Add-on and Extention lists and I don't have it. I use Firefox. If you use IE, maybe it does something different. But I am sure you can dump it if you don't want it. I went through a re-install as I described above and did not see any Funmoods Toolbar.

Gary

P.S.

I think you might have had it installed if you let Chrome or the other choices to be installed. Real sneaky stuff. I am usually very careful to uncheck any thing that seems as if there are going to be any add-ins. Here is a site that tell how to remove it:

http://removal-tool....-extension.html

[Conflow]

Gary and Eric,

Gary I have to disagree with you concerning the "Add-ins" within Freemake Video-Converter ~ Eric is quite correct about

the 'Funmood-Toolbar' which is part of their "FreemakeUtilsService" ~ (You use the Freemake-Converter at your own risk)

"FreemakeUtilsService" is a cloaked File which Installs without the Users permission and does not give any notification

and it runs silently in the background 24/7. It connects with the Internet even if the Freemake-Program is not running.

Should the Program be disabled or deleted with its Uninstaller it still continues to run. The only sure way of removing

this Program is with "Revo-Uninstaller" but one has to be very careful as you will find some +50 registry-entries mostly

all connected with the FreemakeUtilsService and these are not normally visable to any PC.User.

Suggest: You Google "FreemakeUtilsService" for yourself or read this...

http://download.cnet.com/Freemake-Video-Converter/9241-2194_4-11939897.html?messageID=10684410

May I suggest an alternative to Freemake which is the 'NCH-Prism Converter' which we have using for some time. It is one

of the very rare Programs which can convert the PTE-Virtual(Avi) into a usable File either as a Full-Avi or WMV-File which

can be reprocessed into various Video-Formats.

Shots and PDF-data below and Program-Link here.

http://www.nchsoftware.com/index.html

Hope this is useful...

Brian.(Conflow)

[goddi]

Gary and Eric,

Gary I have to disagree with you concerning the "Add-ins" within Freemake Video-Converter ~ Eric is quite correct about

the 'Funmood-Toolbar' which is part of their "FreemakeUtilsService" ~ (You use the Freemake-Converter at your own risk)...

"FreemakeUtilsService" is a cloaked File which Installs without the Users permission and does not give any notification

and it runs silently in the background 24/7. It connects with the Internet even if the Freemake-Program is not running....

Hope this is useful...

Brian.(Conflow)

=======================

Brian,

The link you mentioned has to do with Version 2.3.1. The latest version is 3.0.2.6. I have installed it several times and I have not received the Funmood-Toolbar or the FreemakeUtilsService. I wonder if the more recent versions have eliminated these Add-ins. I checked through my Registry, Services and Processes and not a trace. When I installed it, I was careful not to accept any of the 'automatic' install procedures and took only the Freemake Video Converter program. Maybe they have changed their ways????

I think the Freemake Video Converter program is really great. Thanks for the alternative program. I'll take a look.

Gary