Which codecs to use?

[fh1805]

I'm seeking advice from you experts on a subject that I confess I know little about.

I am preparing a sequence for Killhope Lead Mining Museum in the north of England. Killhope is about one and three-quarter hours drive from my home; so not somewhere I can just pop into to run a quick test. They have been unable to secure funding for a PC on which to run the EXE version, and so will want to have the final form of the sequence as a video file in order to play it back on their existing DVD player and TV set combination. My question is this: is there such a thing as a "universal" video codec/audio codec that is guaranteed to work on any DVD player/TV combo? If not, what codecs are most likely to be supported. The DVD player is a Sony but I don't have any model details. I've been told it has a sticker on the back which states that it supports almost every DVD type (R, RW, +, -, etc) I have no idea what the TV is, other than it is a flat screen LCD TV. I have been told it has only RCA sockets and a yellow-multi-pin socket (S-Video?). The DVD player and TV connect via a SCART cable. The museum does not have Owner's Manuals for either piece of kit; they were both donated as working second-hand items.

The sequence has been built on the original expectation of running it as an EXE and is at 3:2 aspect ratio with images sized at 1080 high. It is not a technically complex sequence. It opens with a pan across a 180 degree panoramic image. There are four instances of slow, shallow zooms and some "implied" animation that has been achieved by a combination of motor-drive still images and appropriate choices of transition effects.

I would welcome all and any advice on this matter and will do my best to answer any supplemental questions which might arise. Once I get the sequence finished, as an EXE, I will post a version for all to see.

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Peter

As you probably know I've burned 100's of DVD's for my charity work & only ever had one comeback where the user said it wouldn't play, in that instance she was using a cheepo combo TV & DVD player from Aldi. My DVD's have gone all over the world. The method I use is a DVD-R disc, and allow PTE's system to run through without any modification other than adding the title. Then because of the distance, (assuming you've tried the disc on your DVD player) post it to the customer & ask them to try it.

Regards Eric

[davegee]

Peter,

Doesn't the success or failure of this type of DVD owe more to the quality of the (blank) DVD used and the age/quality of the DVD player it is played on?

I'll be watching this thread closely.

DG

[fh1805]

The method I use is a DVD-R disc, and allow PTE's system to run through without any modification other than adding the title.

But which Publish method do you use in PTE: HD Video, DVD-Video or AVI video file?

I don't particularly want to come down to NTSC/PAL DVD-Video if I can avoid it. Unless, that is, somebody out there can tell me how to preserve all the technical quality of the images whilst taking what I see as a retrograde step.

[davegee]

Peter,

You said above that you were going to produce a DVD?

Surely, your choice is limited to DVD-Video?

And using VideoBuilder is as good a way to go as any. As a variation, produce the ISO in PTE VB and use your own DVD Burning software to complete (better).

DG

[denwell]

Peter

I fear there is no viable alternative to standard DVD - if that's what the client wishes to use as a presentation vehicle.

Quality, as we know, will not be anywhere like the .exe version but you are really limited to the display equipment they have available.

I would prefer to use .mp4 output from VB to produce an HD version of the .exe. This would require the possible use of a suitable USB media player connected via HDMI to the TV (if this is available). Pity the TV seems not to have direct USB input!

Maybe others can offer ways to produce an (HD) DVD that will play on their (second hand!) player.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Peter

DVD Video disc.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[potwnc]

Peter,

"I don't particularly want to come down to NTSC/PAL DVD-Video..." I'm not sure what you mean by this. Since you're in the UK you'll have to use PAL, but that has nothing to do with codecs. To answer your question, there is a universal video standard: MPEG-2. There is not a single audio standard however. DVD supports AC3 (the most common), PCM and, for PAL DVDs, MP2. See this article: http://www.gromkov.com/faq/general/dvd_audio_formats.html.

If you are using VB to burn the disc (or the .iso file) it should take care of all this for you. To increase your chances I'd burn a DVD+R disc and a DVD-R disc and post these both in advance to be tested on the actual player you'll use at the event.

[fh1805]

In my opening post I confessed that I know little about this subject. I have tried outputting DVD-Video twice in that past (back in the days of PTE v5.5 I think it was). I was appalled at the poor visual quality of the images when compared to the quality of the EXE file. If, as seems likely from the replies I've had so far, I am going to be forced down this route, the new question is: how best can I preserve as much of the image quality as possible? As I understand it, I cannot output my 1624x1080 images via PAL. Is that correct?

Peter

[davegee]

no matter what res you choose to work with it will be reduced to pal res. if you choose 4:3 you will get every ounce of quality (res) possible. if you choose 16:9 it will be fitted inside the 4:3 pal "envelope" and you will "lose" the top and bottom res. use highest quality jpegs. there is "no penalty". untick "fixed size...". you might find that quality has improved since last time that you tried it.

dg

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Peter

Where are you burning your DVD. Is it the new LT or your previous one. I assume you have a DVD read/write drive on your new LT? Or are you using a updated desk top with the original drive? Your latest equipment should be superior. A disc is less than £1 surely you can try & see what the results are like. The PTE DVD burn software has been uprated since 5.5 I believe. Go for it, you may be surprised.

Regards Eric

yachtsman1.

[Lin Evans]

Hi Peter,

I think perhaps you might be thinking of the "media" type and perhaps using the term DVD in a generic sense. DVD has a very specific meaning and that is essentially either NTSC or PAL resolution. Neither of these are anywhere close to HD quality.

However, and depending on what type of player your customer has - it "may" be possible to burn an AVCHD format on a DVD media blank. AVCHD is very similar to BluRay in quality, but in order to play an AVCHD the end user must have a BluRay player which is compatible with playing AVCHD. Not all are such. AVCHD can be burned without a BluRay burner by any of several software packages. It uses a standard DVD burner and standard DVD media to burn this format to the media, but it can only be played back with a compatible BluRay player. The down side is that not all BluRay players will recognize AVCHD and the other down side it that you are limited in the amount of data you can physically fit on a DVD media blank at the much higher HD resolution. If you have time to experiment, you could burn a sample and send them to test. It "might" be the answer you are looking for.

Best regards,

Lin

[xahu34]

... AVCHD can be burned without a BluRay burner by any of several software packages ...

Do you have some recommendations?

Best regards,

Xaver

[Lin Evans]

Hi Xaver,

The two which I have used which work well for me are Nero and Ulead Movie Factory with their new plugin. There are several others which I have "heard" work well, but I have no personal experience with. I'm very confident to recommend Nero because it's probably the most compatible with more hardware.

http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/burn_avchd_with_nero_burning_rom.cfm

Best regards,

Lin

Do you have some recommendations?

Best regards,

Xaver

[nobeefstu]

Peter,

I have been told it has only RCA sockets and a yellow-multi-pin socket (S-Video?). The DVD player and TV connect via a SCART cable.

I have found the PTE-DVD quality vastly improves if the DVD to TV is connected via HDMI cable vs using just the standard RCA Composite cables. They say good quality Component video cables should also pretty much match the quality of a HDMI connection.

Therefor ... the proper selection of the connection cables becomes another important step to attain better quality.

* Actually Iam quite pleased with PTE DVD visual quality and playback using the HDMI connection. Even the 3d transition effects I used for a project were quite impressive for a NTSC format disc. My DVD player is a Samsung (Up Convert type not BluRay)

[fh1805]

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. To all those who are recommending HD, Blu-ray, HDMI and other such routes can I stress: these are NOT options. The equipment, according to the verbal description of it that I have received, does not have those kinds of connectivity options fitted. Also, I cannot change the aspect ratio to 4:3 as many of the images rely on subject matter that would be, at least partially, cropped off. The "pseudo-animations" via quick transitions rely on the fact that these images were captured "in register" by shooting off a tripod.

It seems I will have to burn to a DVD-Video disc (to PAL standards) and try that.

@Tom95521,

That suggestion for future proofing the DVD contents looks a good one. I'll give that a try.

Peter

[davegee]

A word of caution.

You might find that their player will not read a "multimedia" disc?

My comment about 4:3 was not intended as a suggestion. It was general information.

Did you say what the TV AR is?

My words about best quality in every aspect stand.

DG

[Ken Cox]

I have a Samsung 1080i up dvd player connected to my 37" Panasonic TV via hdmi

also have a

Toshiba 1080i up dvd player connected to the TV via composite cables

using 2 discs burned one after the other and played together i see no difference in picture - the only difference - the Toshiba has better sound output -- dont know why but not looking into it

ken

[fh1805]

OK, I'm back with an update.

I have just burned a normal DVD-Video disc and played it back on TV using my Blu-ray player. I have to say that the quality, compared to what I remember from last time I tried burning a DVD - using v5.5 - is absolutely superb. I don't know how much of that quality might be attributable to the playback technology of the Blu-ray player playing a normal DVD; but I have to say, if the TV and DVD player at Killhope deliver the same kind of quality, I'll be entirely happy for the public to see my work.

Congratulations to Igor for all the improvements he has incorporated into VideoBuilder's code since 5.5.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Peter,

Are you getting the 3:2 AR on your 16:9 TV?

DG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

I would welcome all and any advice on this matter and will do my best to answer any supplemental questions which might arise. Once I get the sequence finished, as an EXE, I will post a version for all to see.

regards,

Peter

???????

Yachtsman1.

[fh1805]

Peter,

Are you getting the 3:2 AR on your 16:9 TV?

DG

Yes, I get the 3:2 AR on my system. But on a friend's system, playing the same DVD, it comes out as 4:3 (both left and right sides have parts cropped off).

Peter

[fh1805]

???????

Yachtsman1.

??????? what?

Peter

[davegee]

Peter,

There will be a setting in the DVD Player's Menu which determines how the AR is handled.

If it is not there then it must be in the TV's Menu.

The safest way is to ALWAYS use 16:9 and fit the 3:2 images into the 16:9 ar by means of a Matte, but an awful lot of resolution is lost.

This is where the H.264 approach excells.

DG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

??????? what?

Peter

I assumed as you had burned a DVD of your show, you had also produced an EXE and had forgotton your promise to post it on here.???

Yachtsman1.