Upper Teesdale waterfalls

[fh1805]

The attached file is my first attempt to use video clips in a PTE sequence. It is most definitely not an attempt to produce a finished sequence; simply an exploration on my part of how to add video clips and then add sound to those clips. For the technically minded: the video clips were captured on a Nikon D300s, mounted on a tripod; the sound recordings were made on a Zoom H4 hand-held. I did NOT attempt to make the sound recording at exactly the same time as the video clip. I did one, switched equipment and did the other. The D300s was set to capture 1280x720 HD video (hence the Fixed size of slide), which it does into an AVI format.

The only post-processing done has been to run PTE's Video Converter on each of the original AVI video clips in order to clip them both front and back. This produced a fresh AVI file using a different codec. When I play the two videos one after the other in Windows Media Player I cannot see any quality change.

The sound files are totally unprocessed and were added via the "Add Sound" icon onto each clip (i.e. this is not an assembled soundtrack built in Audacity).

So what lessons have I learned so far?

1) The D300s produces good quality video when operated on a tripod. That is reassuring since it was one of the reasons for buying that camera.

2) PTE's Video Converter does a nice job of trimming the video and is easy to use for that purpose.

3) The Zoom H4 handles the outdoor location work splendidly (but I knew that already)

4) For this kind of subject, where the noise is essentially random, it is perfectly possible to dub the soundtrack in the post-production phase.

5) I need to find an acceptable way of getting out of a video clip back to a still image. (That's why there are no still images in this demo sequence, other than the blank slides)

6) I do not like the way PTE kills the sound associated with a slide before that slide has completed its transition into the next slide. That's just way too clunky!

7) Wouldn't it be nice if PTE transitioned the associated audio as well as the image between slides!

8) The sound on the second video clip needs post-processing to reduce the boominess (it is wind noise getting in through the wind-jammer on the microphone)

All in all, for my first attempt to capture and use video, everything works as I had hoped it would so I'm a happy bunny. All I have to do now is learn how to deploy video aesthetically!

regards,

Peter

Upper Teesdale Waterfalls.zip

[Ken Cox]

PETER

as my #4 grandchild would say "sweet"

thks

ken

[davegee]

Peter,

The quality is good viewed on my 1920x1200 monitor.

Why did you not transition the video clips - the quick transition does them no justice at all?

If the sound files are not embedded in the Video files why not use the Audio Mixer in PTE to produce the fades between clips?

DG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Quote "I need to find an acceptable way of getting out of a video clip back to a still image. (That's why there are no still images in this demo sequence, other than the blank slides"

Hi Peter

If you use one of the video editors previously mentioned on here, most of them have a "snapshot" facility, luckily my new FZ150 has that facility built in.

The screen shot shows how to take a snapshot using Video Pad.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[fh1805]

Why did you not transition the video clips - the quick transition does them no justice at all?

Dave,

With my limited experience to date I have found that the video stops playing at the start of the next transition. That results in, to my eyes and mind, an unnatural, jerky playback. By adopting "Quick" transitions, I am following the traditional film editor's approach of "cutting" from shot to shot.

Peter

[fh1805]

Eric,

When I shot the video, I took a still image immediately after each video clip. I just haven't got around to trying to transition from video to still as yet.

Peter

[davegee]

Peter,

Just try inserting the 3 videos into the slide view with KFSD ticked.

Use 3 seconds or so for the transition.

Please tell me what you don't like about the result?

DG

[fh1805]

Dave,

OK, I'm partially convinced . Some of the fades between the video clips work well; but some of them do not. However, as was discussed at great length last year, KFSD (Keep Full Slide Duration) adds some new complications.

For example: Because the duration of my initial blank slide (Quick transition into the blank) was the same as the default transition time, the blank slide effectively didn't exist during playback. The show went straight into the transition into the first video slide. PTE wouldn't let me select the blank in order to delete it or change its duration . I had to reduce the transition into the first video slide in order to be able to select the blank and change its duration.

But during my messing around I've found an even bigger worry. Using PTE's Video Converter, I trimmed all my video clips to either 8 seconds or 10 seconds in duration. But when I drop these into PTE as Video slides they show up as having durations of either 7.917s or 9.917 seconds (those values are with KFSD not ticked by the way!). This means I cannot apply my standard approach to sequence building and assemble the soundtrack first and then edit the images to match. If I use video clips as slides, I cannot guarantee that the slide durations are going to be as I expected them to be.

Solve one problem but find two others - what a learning curve! At least I now understand why Igor gave us KFSD option.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Peter, Peter, Peter,

There are ways and means.

I am not suggesting that you use KFSD permanently - I am suggesting that what you see can be simulated in KFSD (unticked).

However, there is another scenario to consider - with KFSD Ticked you can move your slides and videos around without having to make endless adjustments to transition times (unless you stick RIGIDLY to a standard undeviating transition time).

"Some of the fades between the video clips work well; but some of them do not."

Probably the photographer's fault?

Using the video trim in Options>Properties allows you to set EXACTLY 9 seconds or 10 seconds so that's not a problem. But be careful - if you do it this way it will affect the slide duration which will need to be adjusted afterwards - I have mentioned this to Igor but I don't know if a fix is going to come.

I understand your concerns about making the music/narration track before the slides and video are added.

I've never worked that way - except once - maybe it is necessary to consider a new approach?

Adding video is new to us all - maybe we all need to regroup?

Could you upload the amended version so that maybe a concensus could be given by others? A "side by side" comparison so to speak?

DG

P.S. There are no complications in KFSD Ticked - only lack of understanding. IMHO and all that!!

[fh1805]

"Some of the fades between the video clips work well; but some of them do not."

Probably the photographer's fault?

Possibly the photographers fault . I wasn't shooting video clips with a pre-planned idea of what I was going to do with them. As I had zero experience with video, I didn't know how the transitions would look between two moving images. Like, I said - it's a learning curve.

Using the video trim in Options>Properties allows you to set EXACTLY 9 seconds or 10 seconds so that's not a problem.

Yes it is. If I wait until the clips are loaded into the Slide List before I trim, I'll be loading the entire video clip, say, 30-40 seconds, when all I want is 8-10 seconds. That will add unnecessary "weight" to the final EXE sequence. Are you suggesting I should do two "trim" passes, one with Video Converter to chop off the major excess (leaving, say one second extra at each end), and then a second, more precise trim with O&A Properties?

...maybe it is necessary to consider a new approach?

That is precisely the question I am trying to answer by all this messing around: "what should be the new approach?"

Could you upload the amended version so that maybe a concensus could be given by others? A "side by side" comparison so to speak?

Yes, once I've re-built the soundtrack to match the new timings that KFSD has given me. Grrr!!!!

Peter

[davegee]

So where can we view the amended version?

DG

[davegee]

P.S.

I think I understand your comment about 7.917 seconds etc.

That's because of the frames that you cut between. There's nothing that you can do about that. A video duration has to be to the nearest frame not the nearest second.

0.083 seconds is not going to bother you if you want to round up to 8 seconds (KFSD Unticked).

DG

[fh1805]

Following the discussion with Dave (davegee), here's a re-worked version that has the videos fading into one another. The original version is available via my original post.

Peter

Waterfalls 2v1-KFSD.zip

[davegee]

Magnificent!!

That Ridley guy had better watch out!!

Is that just one audio file or 3-4?

If more than one, is it necessary - don't they all sound alike?

DG

P.S. on a more technical slant a couple of them are badly pixilated (and I don't mean drunk). Is that because the file is being upscaled to fit the width of my monitor? (1280x800).

DG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Can someone please explain where to find

"Using the video trim in Options>Properties" I've searched high & low but can't locate it.

Yachtsman1.

[fh1805]

Eric,

Drop a video clip into a project as a slide and then take that slide into O&A. The Properties tab has some "Trim" fields for the video.

Peter

[fh1805]

Is that just one audio file or 3-4?

If more than one, is it necessary - don't they all sound alike?

It is a mix done in Audacity using four recordings, each made from the same position where I stood to take the associated video. And no, they're not all the same. I was surprised at just how different they are. All my previous experience of ambience recordings of rivers and waterfalls had taught me that white water makes white noise. But there are subtle differences in the ambience sounds (e.g. reverbs from the rocks around) that give each its own character.

...on a more technical slant a couple of them are badly pixilated (and I don't mean drunk). Is that because the file is being upscaled to fit the width of my monitor? (1280x800).

It shouldn't be getting upscaled! The Project Options...Screen tab was set to "Fullscreen", "Size of slide" = 1280x720, "Fixed size of slide (in pixels)" = On, "Unsharp mask" = None

Which of the falls was pixellated, and whereabouts on the screen?

Peter

[davegee]

Wait a mo'.

Trying it on my large monitor just in case!!

DG

[davegee]

The Pixilation is in the areas just above the waterline in Videos 2 and 4. Where there once was detail there is just blocks of "colour" - and that happens on two different systems and two different monitors.

You were right that they were not being upsized - it plays 1280x720 in the centre of my 1920x1200 monitor.

DG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Eric,

Drop a video clip into a project as a slide and then take that slide into O&A. The Properties tab has some "Trim" fields for the video.

Peter

Hi Peter

Thanks don't know how I missed it

However the clip is 3:41.36 long & I want to trim it to 1:29.643, which I've set in the duration window, but the clip runs for the full length, is there something else I need to set?

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[fh1805]

Eric,

I don't know. I haven't used that feature. I've done all my trimming by using "Convert video clip" which is available when you right-click on a video clip in the File List panel of the main window.

Peter

[davegee]

What you would do Peter, is set the start time (click on the Start Time arrow) and then the end time by dragging the arrows in from both sides and that would determine the duration.

DG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Some progress. Reduced the clip length using Peter's suggestion, however for some reason the clip length ended up about 5 seconds longef than what I set, I assume it was the transitions?. Couldn't make the other suggestion work. I wanted to set the start at the beginning of the clip, so I clicked the start arrow then dragged in the end arrow to 1m29.6s, and ran it through but the original 3m+ was retained, I assume there is another step? I assume that both these methods don't reduce the actual clip file size, if so one wonders what use they are, the original clip was over 100MB, the only way I have found to reduce the file size is to use one of the video editors. I'm guessing here as I can't find anything in writing.

Yachtsman1.

Rewind on that statement, it appears the clip size has been reduced by about 60MB. Which makes it a handy tool. Less challenging than the free editors I've tried. Igor can we have some written instructions on how to.

[fh1805]

Here's an attempt to describe the steps I followed to trim video files via Convert Video Clip:

1. Navigate in PTE so that the File List panel is showing the contents of the folder where your original video clips have been stored
   
2. Right click on one of the video clips and select "Convert Video Clip"
   
3. The Video Converter window opens
   
4. Note that you can convert several clips in one pass by using the "Add Task" button to select more clips
   
5. Clips awaiting conversion show as "Paused"
   
6. Select one of the clips to be converted
   
7. Leaving all other settings unmodified, tick the "Crop Video" box
   
8. Set the Start and End points of the trim by keying directly into the two fields or by dragging the sliders under the thumbnail
   
9. Set the name and folder for the output file by clicking on the "three dots" button alongside Destination File and then using the dialogue box just as you would for a "File Save As" operation
   

When you have completed steps 6 through 9 for all your clips, use the "Convert All" button to run the conversions. Finally navigate in PTE to the folder you nominated as your destination folder and drag the converted clips into your Slide List.

N.B. step 7 works for me but that might be because the video files out of my Nikon D300s are already in AVI format. I am not converting my videos, only trimming them.

Hope this helps.

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Peter

Found the second suggestion method last night. Got up early this morning & searched through my PDF files accumulated over the years & found a Video Trimming PDF. So between that & what you have said I have managed to trim the one clip I was trying to insert into a second show on using the Olympus LS10 as a mike. The pictures in the PDF helped, not sure where I found the PDF but I',m sure the author will advise those who are looking for it. Thanks for your help, once I get my head fully around how to operate PTE's trimming tool I'm sure it will be an improvement on what I've been using.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.