A problem with sound added to a video clip

[fh1805]

I have encountered a small problem when adding sound to a video slide.

In the attached screenshot (below left), slide 17 has a sound file added and so has slide 19. The images in slides 17 and 18 were taken from the same position (I just turned the camera slightly). The sound file added to slide 17 was recorded from this same position. I want that sound clip to extend through both slide 17 and 18.

As you can see from the numbers, the transition from slide 17 to 18 is a Quick; the transition to 19 is a 1.5 second Fade in/out. The sound file has been customized as shown below right: the duration is long enough to cover both slide 17 and 18 and the transition into slide 19. The video clip used in slide 18 has a duration that is long enough to extend all the way through the transition into slide 19.

The problem? Whilst the video of slide 18 runs all the way through the transition into the next slide, the added sound fades out before the transition from 18 to 19 begins. PTE seems to calculate the start of the fade out on the sound based on the beginning of the transition into the next slide and not on the end of that transition.

I wonder if this problem is something that the new Timeline and audio interface promised for v7.5 will resolve.

[davegee]

Is it something to do with the Single Video Track / Master Video Track setting in Properties?

Just a wild guess.

DG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Peter

I don't use PTE for my sounds so I'm guessing Have you unticked "Synchronise Music & Slides?

Regards eric

[fh1805]

Is it something to do with the Single Video Track / Master Video Track setting in Properties?

Dave,

Thanks for the suggestion but I suspect it is not relevant. The video was shot as a "silent movie" i.e. no sound recording done by the camera. The sound file was recorded separately and is being added in via PTE.

Peter

[fh1805]

Have you unticked "Synchronise Music & Slides?

Eric,

Thanks for your thoughts. I need that to be ticked so that, when I do a "Preview from current slide", both slide and audio playbacks begin at the correct place.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Peter,

Re-read your post and understand a little better what you are getting.

I tried my own little experiment trying to mimic what you are doing:

Using KFSD.

First video = master

Second video = linked to first.

Third slide = image (not linked).

Added sound file to First Video and set duration as required to continue into third image.

Set "do not interrupt sound comment".

Works OK - sound continues until slide three is fully visible.

DG

[fh1805]

Dave,

Maybe KFSD would behave differently?

You know I don't like that feature! However, I'll make a copy of the project file and try turning it on.

Making the added sound track independent of the video would almost certainly solve it?

If we're still waiting for 7.5 when I get to the point of being ready to do the final build (I'm just roughing out some ideas at present) then I will build the soundtrack in Audacity as I usually do.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Sorry,

I was editing while you were writing.

I'll try a non-KFSD version later.

DG

[davegee]

P.S.

No need to go to Auditory just to do this little job?

New track - add audio - set offset and duration and fades - done?

DG

[fh1805]

New track - add audio - set offset and duration and fades - done?

Yes, I know it "can" be done in PTE, but when it comes to audio, I do not readily think in terms of numbers. I have used Audacity for seven years now and am used to looking at the waveforms for all the soundtrack items stacked visually one above the other - and then using drag and drop to move them to and fro along the timeline.

I'm anticipating that the soundtrack for this sequence will involve 34 voice-over clips, two or three pieces of music and perhaps ten or a dozen location sound recordings, all overlaid in complex arrangements. I find this complexity is easier to edit in a visually based editor.

regards,

Peter

[fh1805]

I'll try a non-KFSD version later.

Dave,

I've just tried a version with KFSD set ON. The behaviour is just the same. The fade out of the sound, that is attached to slide 17 and which plays on through slide 18, is ending just before slide 19 begins. The sound clip has enough duration to reach just past the end of the transition into slide19 and I want the sound to run on through the transition into slide19, fading out as the sound clip on slide19 fades in with its image. It seems that this cannot be done in the current version of PTE. For the "rough" build that I am doing at present, what I have suffices. However, when I turn my attention to the definitive build, I will want that overlap and will probably do as I always do, and use Audacity.

Peter

[davegee]

Peter,

I have now got two versions of the exact same trial.

A KFSD and a non-KFSD version.

My original KFSD version works as you want it to work - the sound continues into the third slide.

The non-KFSD version works as you are experiencing it - the sound stops before the third slide transition begins. The reason for this is the same reason as Igor developed KFSD. Your sound is linked to Slide 1 and will take on the attributes of slide 1.

We are doing something differently (KFSD version) and I see no way of proving it to you other than to post my trial on dropbox - but not today - I am away from my Broadband connection.

You intransigence toward the KFSD and Audio utility in PTE is well known.

I hope that you manage to solve it.

DG

[fh1805]

We are doing something differently (KFSD version)

Dave,

All I did was turn KFSD on. I didn't delete and rebuild those three slides afterwards. Perhaps I should have done! I'll be out for most of the rest of the day so will have another go either later this evening or tomorrow am.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Peter,

We have discussed previously that the project should be either KFSD or Non-KFSD and that switching between the two can lead to disaster.

I fully anticipate that Igor will remove the KFSD switch from its present position and place it in a position such that it can be set before starting a project then forgotten (in V7.5).

Anyway, here is a solution for you:

Add three BLANK slides and set their durations to suit the Video clips.

i.e. if your transition duration equals 2 seconds and your video clip equals 7.007 seconds then the slide duration for that video clip equals 5.007 seconds.

5.007 seconds includes incoming transition and the outgoing 2 sec transition brings the time up to 7.007 sec.

Add the Video clip in O&A.

Do the same with the second Blank slide.

With Project Options> Music> "Do Not Interrupt Sound Comments......" TICKED........

Add the Audio file to the first blank slide and it will play for its complete duration or until the time that you set in "Audio Clip Properties".

THAT WORKS. The clips overlap and you get a KFSD type transition. If you don't want the overlap set the transition between clips to zero and the slide duration to the Video Clip Duration.

It mimics the KFSD procedures and takes a little extra setting up.

ME???? I'd rather make it easy for myself and use KFSD from start to fininsh - but that's just me.

I hope that helps.

It's a WORKAROUND.

DG

[fh1805]

Dave,

OK, I've done a simple three clip test with KFSD ON right from the start in a new project.

Add three BLANK slides and set their durations to suit the Video clips.

Add the Video clip in O&A.

That is not a logical way to work. All I should need to do is drag the three video clips into the Slide List, which is what I did. Why make life more complicated than it needs to be? (rhetorical)

With Project Options> Music> "Do Not Interrupt Sound Comments......" TICKED........

It is, and always has been, for this rough build that I'm doing.

Add the Audio file to the first blank slide and it will play for its complete duration or until the time that you set in "Audio Clip Properties".

THAT WORKS

It does indeed! I can get the sound to run several seconds into the third slide. However, when I add the sound to the third slide, the fade out on the sound associated with the first slide now completes before the third slide begins.

It seems to me that, in this situation, and irrespective of the setting of KFSD, the "Do not interrupt sound comments" selection is being ignored if the sound files are BOTH sound comments.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

That is not a logical way to work. All I should need to do is drag the three video clips into the Slide List, which is what I did. Why make life more complicated than it needs to be? (rhetorical)

It does indeed! I can get the sound to run several seconds into the third slide. However, when I add the sound to the third slide, the fade out on the sound associated with the first slide now completes before the third slide begins.

.................. the "Do not interrupt sound comments" selection is being ignored if the sound files are BOTH sound comments.

regards,

Peter

Hi Peter,

I think that we should regroup.

A couple of years ago someone experienced EXACTLY the same things as you are experiencing now and Igor dealt with it - he introduced "Keep Full Slide Duration" but it doesn't come without the need to adapt. There is a touch of trying to re-invent the wheel here. That problem has already been solved.

If you are going to work with video KFSD solves most of your problems BUT you need to start off in KFSD Mode.

I have tried a small test with two Sound Comments and, as you say, you cannot overlap Sound Comments but this is easily overcome by persevering with the Audio Utility (until V7.5 comes along).

My suggestion about BLANK slides was to get you out of your present predicament. Is it worth a try?

DG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Peter

Did you miss out out the first suggested step??? or have you done exactly as suggested. This was titled a work around, not the logical way.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[fh1805]

Dave,

If you are going to work with video KFSD solves most of your problems BUT you need to start off in KFSD Mode.

For the most recent test that is exactly what I did. I set KFSD = ON and then did File...New....

I have tried a small test with two Sound Comments and, as you say, you cannot overlap Sound Comments...

That, to me, begs the question: why not? I have arrived at the point where, with Do Not Interrupt Sound Comments set to ON, I have a Sound Comment being interrupted. That is a bug no matter how one tries to look at it.

My suggestion about BLANK slides was to get you out of your present predicament. Is it worth a try?

Not really because I am not trying to produce a polished, finished sequence at this stage. All I am doing is sketching out some ideas using the audio features. I am able to do that quite happily with the code behaving as it does. I just think the behaviour represents a bug. I'm not even looking for Igor to resolve it in v7.0. With v7.5 just over the horizon, all he needs to do is satisfy himself that v7.5 either will not have this bug or will offer a totally different way of handling multiple audio clips so that the issue becomes irrelevant.

Thanks for all the suggestions. They have been useful, if only to improve my understanding of the current behaviour of v7.0.7

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

WRT the multiple Sound Comments - I agree - I don't see why it can't be done - it's just like having multiple tracks.

It could be that Igor just didn't foresee anyone wanting multiple overlapping Sound Comments?

Perhaps we need a "Do not interrupt previously started Sound Comment" button.

DG

[fh1805]

Did you miss out out the first suggested step??? or have you done exactly as suggested. This was titled a work around, not the logical way.

Eric,

Thanks for your input; however, I have no particular desire to find or to use convoluted ways to achieve something that should be achievable in a straightforward manner.

As I have tried to make clear in previous posts, I am not attempting to create a finished, polished sequence. All I am doing is trying out one or two ideas and techniques associated with using video clips and adding sound to them. In doing so I found what I considered to be a bug. As my experience in this area is still somewhat limited, I posted my findings on the forum - to find out if I might have overlooked something. DaveG has now confirmed that the bug is reproducible. A sound comment is getting interrupted even though "Do not interrupt..." has been set to ON. It happens when both sound clips are added to slides and neither is placed via the Project Options...Music tab.

I have no desire, as yet, to build a complete, finished and polished sequence. Neither have I any desire to work with a numerical interface to the audio, where I have to calculate offsets and durations. I want to work in a graphical interface where I can see the waveform against a timeline and can drag items to and fro along the timeline alongside other sound clips. Right now, my tool of choice for that is Audacity. But I am not yet ready to build a complete soundtrack in Audacity. The knowledge I am gaining, about using video clips and adding sound to them (rather than recording the sound at the time of fliming), is helping me refine the design of the sequence. Each week I am developing a new set of scripts (location recording requirements, stills image requirements and video filming requirements) and returning to my subject location to do more work with the camera and Zoom H4 recorder. Each week I add this new material in and take the experimentation another step forward. This sequence is being iteratively developed as I learn new things and then apply what I have learned.

regards,

Peter

[fh1805]

Perhaps we need a "Do not interrupt previously started Sound Comment" button.

No, we need to wait and see what, if anything, v7.5 offers in this area.

Peter

[davegee]

Now, what could be simpler, more intuitive, logical than this :

[xahu34]

With a lot of amusement, I did read the posts in this thread. In my opinion, the concept of sound comments for particular slides is outdated, and hopefully can be avoided in v7.5

BTW: I have never used this concept.

Regards,

Xaver

[aplman]

With a lot of amusement, I did read the posts in this thread. In my opinion, the concept of sound comments for particular slides is outdated, and hopefully can be avoided in v7.5

BTW: I have never used this concept.

Regards,

Xaver

I use the "Sound Comment" feature all the time. mI like it. I rely on it.

I sincerely hope it won't be dropped on the recommendation of a user who has never used it.

Sorry, Xaver, I have to disagree (respectfully) with you on this one.

Ken T.

[xahu34]

... Sorry, Xaver, I have to disagree (respectfully) with you on this one ...

No problem, we need not always agree

Best regards,

Xaver