Standard DVD Player vs BluRay Player

[davegee]

Is anyone out there able to help with a comparison between a Standard DVD Player and a BluRay DVD Player when playing Standard DVDs made in PTE?

We are talking about Stand-alone DVD Players and not the BR Player installed in PC / Laptops.

The test is this:

Play the same DVD made from a PTE project (1920x1080 prefered) in both players and note whether there is any difference between the two with regard to cut off produced by TV Safe Zone on the standard player.

Please note that it is normal to connect BR Players via HDMI and any other method would not be valid for this test.

Your help is appreciated.

DG

[coopernatural]

Dave,

Just wondering. AVCHD dvd can be burnt as Bluray 1920 x 1080.

Only playback on bluray player though.

Can full hd (1920 x 1080)be output onto standard dvd?

Bluray player will play dvd as a dvd. There should be no difference,

unless I have picked this up wrong.

Davy

[davegee]

You've picked it up wrong.

We are talking about a standard dvd made in videobuilder in 16:9 format.

When playing such a dvd back on a. standard dvd player I am seeing the effects of TV safe zone on a HD tv. cropping at the edges.

Peter is seeing a similar dvd played back on a BR player without the cropping. I am looking for someone who is able to try both with the same dvd.

Dg

[Conflow]

Hi Dave,

I've just come across your Topic and your request in your #1 Post above and the following attachments might help you.

There is a lot of confusion about a Pte-Video ~v~ Commercial-Video and also in making TV-compatible DVD's suitable

for playing on (Stand-alone) DVD-Players and on BluRay-Players. From my point of view having spent nearly 30 years

in Video-Electronics both domestic & commercial, I can quite understand the 'frustrations' of many when trying to make

a "Universal-DVD Disc".

No matter what the applications a (Universal) "DVD-Television Disc" must be "Authored" with a suitable program capable

of making the necessary VOB-Files (as root-directories) on the DVD-Disc. (See Image below).

In relation to 'Safe-Screen-Area' ~ the vast majority of "Wide-Screen TV-Sets" are actually 14:9 Format not 16:9 and with

'Switching-selectivity' they can reproduce 4:3 ~ 16:9 ~ Wide ~ Zoom ~ Auto ~ "Screen-sizes" and can also handle various

Line+Picture formats such as 1920 ~ 1280 ~ 1080 ~ 720 ~ 576 (Pal-Line formats). HD is solely 1920 but some Systems

are using HD-1080.

The Fields are usually "Interlaced" to give 25.fps...(2.Fields= 1.Frame). Progressive -scanning is also used @ 25.fps but

usually for Static-Ads and suchlike. (non-motion)

This discussion could probably go on forever, so its probably best that I give the (official) BBC-Standard Pal specfications

here below as a PDF ~and~ a 'Link' to many more Spec...Audio etc. Concerning PTE I must say that Igor and Team have

done their very best in making available such a hi-quality Mp4-Asf (Avi) format which can be reconverted into many others

formats but "Authoring" is another issue which can attract Licencing costs to WnSoft and its a "Minefield".

Hope the data below is of help to you.

Brian.(Conflow)

Link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-delivery.shtml

Standards for BBC-Television (Pal).pdf

[aplman]

Is anyone out there able to help with a comparison between a Standard DVD Player and a BluRay DVD Player when playing Standard DVDs made in PTE?

...

Play the same DVD made from a PTE project (1920x1080 prefered) in both players and note whether there is any difference between the two with regard to cut off produced by TV Safe Zone on the standard player.

...

DG

Dave, please forgive me - I haven't done your exact test yet - but I think you and readers of your post will find this interesting.

I have a Sony Bravia TV and a Sony Blu-Ray player (connected by HDMI). I have several PTE-produced MP4 files on a USB stick. When I play them with the stick in my TV, I lose some image through the "TV Safe Zone" effect. When the same USB stick is played in my Blu-Ray player, there is no loss of image on the TV.

I suspect the answer to your question is going to be more complicated than you expect!

Ken T (APLman)

[Barry Beckham]

Dave

I don't have a standard DVD player any more only a BluRay, but I have not experienced any image cut-off in the few DVD's I have made from 1920*1080 slide shows. I wondered if that was because it isn't a problem for me or I didn't notice it. So, this morning I made a DVD from a 1920*1080 project and my thin line around the edge is in the perfect place, no cut off at all on a large flat screen TV.

[davegee]

Ken,

Interesting. I have been using sony bravia/ usb approach for a couple of years and never experienced cut off. We could discuss this later or offline if you wish? Right now I am primarily interested in the result of my request if you able to do it?

Thanks.

DG

[davegee]

Barry,

Thanks. this confirms what Peter has reported but without the standard dvd player test with the same dvd is only half of the test. I have no need to upgrade to BR because we never watch films etc on dvd but if the BR does this then I will probably upgrade-they are not expensive these days.

DG

[davegee]

Come on Stu I'm waiting.

DG

[nobeefstu]

Dave,

Play the same DVD made from a PTE project (1920x1080 prefered) in both players and note whether there is any difference between the two with regard to cut off produced by TV Safe Zone on the standard player.

I will have available time to test with my 3 different units this coming weekend.

Test units are:

1) older DVD player (has no upconvert and no hdmi connection)

2) normal DVD player (has upconvert and hdmi

3) BlueRay DVD player (has upconvert and hdmi)

* As for TV Safe Zone in equipment: My reading of the subject is that this can vary from product to product and even model to model. Theres just no one standard.

[nobeefstu]

Dave,

Come on Stu I'm waiting.

DG

The coffee just brewed ... that comes first

[davegee]

Thanks Stu,

I have two older DVD Players available to me.

First is a Sony HDD Recorder with built in DVD Burner Player. Now obsolete since the Digital Switchover. Still handy for downloading from my Sky HDD+ Box and making the odd DVD.

A Philips Standard DVD Player.

Both use Scart to connect to the TV.

Both display "TV Safe" effects when played into the HD TV.

DG

[Conflow]

(Please read in full-screen)

Guys,

The answer to your "Safe-Area" problems is on Pages 2 and specifically Pages 8+9 of the PDF which I posted on my #4 Post above ~ obviously nobody read the PDF.

The "Safe-Area System" is a Technical & mandatory requirement in all "PAL-HD Television Transmissions" using the "HD-1080i Line -Scanning-system" also many

modern Commercial-Film DVD-Discs incorporate the safe-area standard as does Blu-Ray and more modern DVD-Players. (read the PDF).

Also if you connect your DVD-Player (Blu-Ray or otherwise) to your Television-Set via a "Scart or Hdmi Connector" it's no longer a TV-set but in effect t it becomes a

"VDU-Display" or monitor for the transmitting device ie:- Your DVD Player.... Forget about the TV-function, it no longer exists ~ but the VGA-standards within the TV-Set

are still very much alive and that includes any 'safe-area rule' built into the Vga-electronics within the TV-set.

The 'Safe-area standard' is solely concerned with (non-motion) Caption-screens which must fall within a prescribed-area so they are clearly visible on all TV-Screens.

If you are using an (older) DVD-Player with a modern HDTV-Set it may decide to treat the Video as a 'caption-set' and invoke the 'safe-area' rule however if the Video

File format is 1280x720 Pixel.images and is "fully-authored" it most likely will replay it on the full HD-Screen but downgraded to standard Wide-screen format.

If you are still getting 'Safe area' boundaries with your 1920x1080 Slideshow on a HD-TV Set it's most likely that your production was not "Authored" and/or.. you are

using Effects which fall outside the prescribed "Time-limits" of the HD-TV Pal-System. (Try making a small Show without effects).

Hope this helps ~ Copy PDF below.

Brian.(Conflow)

Standards for BBC-Television (Pal).pdf

[davegee]

Brian,

Many thanks for the technical backup but I'm really only interested in what happens when you plug A into B and try to play C on it.

C is the common denominator - a bog standard DVD made in PTE with default settings.

A is one of two things - either a Standard (old fashioned) DVD player or a new BR Player. There are variations on both versions of A.

B is a bog standard Sony Bravia (in my case) TV with a built in Media Player.

So far the indications are tha BR Players when connected to B will play in a manner which does not display the cropping associated with TV Safe Zone.

Whilst I realise that the old fashioned DVD players are rapidly becoming museum pieces there are still some out there - I know - I have two.

Once again - thanks,

DG

[Conflow]

Hi Dave,

Yes, I understand exactly and completely what you are trying to do, viz....Trying to find out how a "PTE-DVD" performs on various Video-Reproducers and

the interaction of these one to another...PTE-DVD on DVD-Player ~and~ PTE-DVD Player to HDTV Set ~and~ PTE-DVD on Hybrid/Dvd Televisions and Blu-Ray..

You wrote,quote..."C is the common denominator - a bog standard DVD made in PTE with default settings".

Unfortunately that "bog standard" PTE-DVD is a 'hybrid-system' developed by WnSoft and has more the characteristics of a VCD compared to a "bog-standard"

Commercial DVD which will always be "Authored" and always feature its intrinsic Vob-Files necessary for "Universal-reproduction" on DVD Players. This is a

fact of life with all new "Digital-TV Systems" whether its a TV-Set or modern DVD-Player ~ they all have to agree with the CCIR-EU Video Specifications.

I also tried out the new (single-file) "PTE Mp4-Asf Video Format" on my equipment and yes it will play on selected "Hybrid TV-Sets" with intergrated Player but

I had problems with Effects & Transitions ~ but once removed (except fade only) the Video-file played perfectly where as it wouldn't play on older DVD-Players

because it was not authored.

Many other Slideshow-Programs have "Intergrated DVD-Authoring" and work perfectly ~Now~ In my opinion if WnSoft were to offer a "DVD-Authoring Program"

which could be purchased seperately for (approx) $20 ~ $30 I would be 1st in the queue of hundreds ~ it would be a marvellous asset for PTE-7.5 Slideshows.

Finally, I really think you need to look at these problems from the point of view of the DVD-Player and the HD-TV Set and their specifications requirements.

If you want to try "Authoring" you could try 'DVD-Flick' (Free) or DVD-Styler.

Link: http://www.dvdflick.net/

I will leave you to it, and the best of luck with your research...

Brian (Conflow)

[davegee]

I also tried out the new (single-file) "PTE Mp4-Asf Video Format" on my equipment and yes it will play on selected "Hybrid TV-Sets" with intergrated Player but

I had problems with Effects & Transitions ~ but once removed (except fade only) the Video-file played perfectly where as it wouldn't play on older DVD-Players

because it was not authored.

I think that you meant MPEG4-ASP?

I would be interested to know which make of TV set this type of file plays on?

It won't work on my Sony Bravia through the USB port.

DG

[fh1805]

Dave,

Not 100% sure how to create a video using MPEG4-ASP. What I have done is use v7.5 beta3 to Publish > Create AVI video file. I took the default values presented: 1920x1080, High quality, 30fps. The resultant file plays fine on my Samsung TV when run off a USB stick plugged straight into the socket on the TV.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Thanks for the info Peter.

MPEG4-ASP is in Creating AVI Video File - Custom. I think that what you created is a DEFAULT MPEG4-ASP.(.mpg?)

The advantage of being able to use that is the possibilty of lower file sizes.

I always use MPEG4 (H.264) Highest quality setting.

My son has a couple of Samsungs - I shall take my USB Key with me next visit!

DG

What this says to me is that if you were going to visit someone armed with a USB Key with the intention of showing them your masterpieces then you had better go prepared, with more than one variety of video file???

[davegee]

Can anyone translate the following (from the spec of my TV) into PTE settings?

MPEG-2 MP@ML/MH

H.264/MPEG-4 AVC MP/HP @L4

I'm not too worried about the second one because the default MPEG-4 from PTE fits the bill.

The spec sort of suggests that I should be able to use MPEG-2 but ...............

DG

[Conflow]

Hi Dave,

Yours above #18 Post ~ Yep !! your're right its ASP ~ I was looking at 2 incoming EMails whilst replying to you.

Brian.

[davegee]

I have now been able to try the test that I asked for.

Using the SAME DVD made in PTE with no provision for TV Safe Mode:

A Standard DVD Player (no upscaling) requires that TV Safe Mode be provided for in order to play the DVD and not lose anything from the edges of the frame.

A Blu-Ray Player (with upscaling) plays the same DVD and does not require that any provision for TV Safe Mode be included.

Barry and Peter both reported this but were unable to play the same DVD on anything other than their BR Players. My thanks to them.

The Blu-Ray Player also has provision for inputting video files made in PTE via USB (same as my TV) and, so far, has played both H.264 MPEG4 and MPEG (.mpg) files successfully and with excellent quality.

I will do a full roundup of all options and close this thread down.

Someone suggested that a Standard DVD Player (with upscaling) would also do the same thing - if that could be included that would be great.

It seems that provision for TV Safe Zone is still required with certain DVD Players and is NOT a function of the TV but the type of player used.

DG