Envelope Tool (SOLVED)

[steven62]

Good Morning,

I am having a problem getting the envelope tool to show a specific portion of the waveform.

I have 3 songs lets call 'A', 'B', and 'C'. There is a 12 second area of silence between 'A' and 'B' . I want to shorten it to 6 seconds where one ends and the other begins.

When I go to project options, and press the waveform button for music 'A' the timeline begins at zero up to 4 :40 and will not go any further.

When I select music 'B' it goes from zero to about 3:15.

What I want the waveform to show is 4:26 to 4:42 so I can put in my key frames to shorten the time between them. I will also need to do this between music '2' and '3'

I have tried using the audio properties box to start the second song earlier but it appears I am doing something wrong there also as I typed in 4:34 but nothing happens and I still have the same 12 seconds.

I am using PTE 7.0.7

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Steven

[Lin Evans]

Hi Steven,

To simplify this for your application, put the three songs on separate tracks. This isn't necessary, but it will make my explanation easier. For now, just forget the envelope waveform and do it like this:

Determine the length of song A and set the "offset" for song B to six seconds longer than the duration of song A. For example, if the duration of song A is 3:43, then set the offset value for song B to 3:49.

The "offset" determines where, along the entire timeline, that an audio selection begins. The "start time" determines how far into the full length of run time for a song you wish to begin hearing the sound.

The fade-in and fade-out times for each selection are determined from the start and from the end of the song respectively.

I think this will sort out your issue...

Best regards,

Lin

[CorVdK]

Hello Steven,

Your first song, A is 4:40 and you want a silence of 6 seconds, so B will start at 4:46.

Go to Project Options - Music: click on your song B to activate.

Now click - Customize - Audio clip properties, you see Start time and duration of your song B

Click Offset to activate (blue point) and type 4:46.

Now your song B will start at 4:46, six seconds after song A.

Do the same for C;

Activate C in Project Options - Music.

Go to Customize - Audio clip properties

Now your timings are: A = 4:40 + 6 seconds + B = 3:15 + 6 seconds

When I calculate it right that's 8:07

So type 8:07 in Offset and C will start at 8:07.

I hope that is what you wanted.

Greetings,

Cor

[steven62]

Hello Steven,

Your first song, A is 4:40 and you want a silence of 6 seconds, so B will start at 4:46.

Go to Project Options - Music: click on your song B to activate.

Now click - Customize - Audio clip properties, you see Start time and duration of your song B

Click Offset to activate (blue point) and type 4:46.

Now your song B will start at 4:46, six seconds after song A.

I have added 3 images:

Image 1 is the timeline showing the problem.

Image 2 is the audio properties when first opened without any input from me.

Image 3 is the result after I set the offset in 'B'. The song starts somewhere in the 9+ minute mark

I am going to try Lin's way next. I know I know that this can't be rocket science but I seem to have missed the ship somewhere.

Lin:

Determine the length of song A and set the "offset" for song B to six seconds longer than the duration of song A. For example, if the duration of song A is 3:43, then set the offset value for song B to 3:49.

When I try this I get no change. Everything stays the same except song 'C' disappears from the timeline.

I have a feeling that I am not using the fade ins and out. Could this be what I am doing wrong?

[Lin Evans]

Hi Steven,

Let's take it one step at a time. Click in the circle beside "offset" for slide two and change the 0:00:000 value to 4:46:000. Mute the sound for the third selection for now. (or just remove it from the track for simplicity)....

Now run it and see if audio selection two doesn't start where it should...

Once you get it right, they the next step is to put in the proper offset for selection three and uncheck the "mute" - Or, if you removed track three, put it back in and set the offset for it for the time you want it to start.

The fades are not important - they have nothing to do with the issue.

Best regards,

Lin

[davegee]

Steven,

This is what Lin originally tried to explain.

You cannot see all of the Audio Clip Properties boxes at the same time - clicking on each of them brings up the correct box in turn - you then set the individual offsets to suit.

Tracks are (IMHO) the best way to go.

Lin will get you through it!!

DG

[steven62]

Hi Steven,

Let's take it one step at a time. Click in the circle beside "offset" for slide two and change the 0:00:000 value to 4:46:000. Mute the sound for the third selection for now. (or just remove it from the track for simplicity)....

Now run it and see if audio selection two doesn't start where it should...

Once you get it right, they the next step is to put in the proper offset for selection three and uncheck the "mute" - Or, if you removed track three, put it back in and set the offset for it for the time you want it to start.

The fades are not important - they have nothing to do with the issue.

Best regards,

Lin

OK, attached shows what I did and the results and no change except now track 2 is gone.

Steven

[Lin Evans]

Hi Steven,

I think I see the problem from looking at your captures.

The first song has a length of 4:40 but you have set the duration to 3:18.347 - or, the program has because that's the length of the slides. So to get the second song to start at six seconds after the first one, you would need to set the offset for song two to 3:24.347.

On the other hand, I assumed that you had 4:40 in slide length so told you to set the second track to 4:46. The question is why you have a different value in the duration for audio one than the 4:40. If you really only need 3:18.347 then just set the offset for slide two to 3:24.347 and it should begin playing six seconds after the end of the first audio.

As it is now programmed, there would be a delay from 3:18:347 to 4:46:00 before song two begins because you have terminated song one at 3:18:347.

It's a bit difficult to sort it out without actually seeing the show. If this doesn't work for you, make a zip file of the PTE project using "File" Create Backup in Zip and post it and I'll sort it out for you.

Best regards,

Lin

[steven62]

Hi Steven,

I think I see the problem from looking at your captures.

The first song has a length of 4:40 but you have set the duration to 3:18.347 - or, the program has because that's the length of the slides. So to get the second song to start at six seconds after the first one, you would need to set the offset for song two to 3:24.347.

On the other hand, I assumed that you had 4:40 in slide length so told you to set the second track to 4:46. The question is why you have a different value in the duration for audio one than the 4:40. If you really only need 3:18.347 then just set the offset for slide two to 3:24.347 and it should begin playing six seconds after the end of the first audio.

As it is now programmed, there would be a delay from 3:18:347 to 4:46:00 before song two begins because you have terminated song one at 3:18:347.

It's a bit difficult to sort it out without actually seeing the show. If this doesn't work for you, make a zip file of the PTE project using "File" Create Backup in Zip and post it and I'll sort it out for you.

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin, I hope that I am not making this harder then it should be. I changed selection 2 to offset 3:24:347 and now I am getting both tracks playing at the same time beginning at 3:24:347.

Let me ask this:

According to the audio prop box, selection 1 ends at 4:40:297. I would like selection 2 to begin 6 seconds after selection 1 ends.

The way things look now:

Thanks,

Steven

[Lin Evans]

Hi Steven,

It looks like all you need to do is change the offset for audio selection two to 4:46. now and it "should" work if you don't change anything else.

It would be much easier to help you if you could zip up the project and post it.

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin, I hope that I am not making this harder then it should be. I changed selection 2 to offset 3:24:347 and now I am getting both tracks playing at the same time beginning at 3:24:347.

Let me ask this:

According to the audio prop box, selection 1 ends at 4:40:297. I would like selection 2 to begin 6 seconds after selection 1 ends.

The way things look now:

Thanks,

Steven

[steven62]

Hi Steven,

It looks like all you need to do is change the offset for audio selection two to 4:46. now and it "should" work if you don't change anything else.

It would be much easier to help you if you could zip up the project and post it.

Best regards,

Lin

Lin,

This will be a little over 174MB file and I will have to figure out how to send it or find a free account and that allows me to upload large files.

In any case it will be a few days before I can do it because of my work schedule over the next few days.

Thank you very much for trying, it has been greatly appreciated.

Steven

P.S. I did change selection 2 to 4:46 and still have problems.

Steven

[Lin Evans]

Hi Steven,

I "think" you could upload it to Mediafire http://www.mediafire.com

Maybe Ken Cox can let us know because he uses it all the time...

Best regards,

Lin

Lin,

This will be a little over 174MB file and I will have to figure out how to send it or find a free account and that allows me to upload large files.

In any case it will be a few days before I can do it because of my work schedule over the next few days.

Thank you very much for trying, it has been greatly appreciated.

Steven

P.S. I did change selection 2 to 4:46 and still have problems.

Steven

[Ken Cox]

easiest way is to set up a free account for future use

Mediafire will take a < 200mb file

when file is uploaded and verified they provide a link via windows clipboard that you send to whoever and they click the link to initiate a down load

best to send it to yourself to see the whole process so you can describe it if req'd

or

see

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?/topic/14254-posting-shows/

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?/topic/87-links-to-p2e-members-sites/page__view__findpost__p__538

and use Bill's site

ken

[fh1805]

Stephen,

I'm not going to contribute any detailed discussion with you here. I know from my own experiences on other forums that getting advice from multiple individuals usually leads to confusion. However, I just want to ensure that you have grasped one fundamental principle of audio within PTE. You have presented among your screen captures one that showed three items in a single track and later, one that showed two items, each in their own track. The three items in one track will play successively (i.e. one after the other). The two items, each in their own track, will play in parallel (i.e. both at the same time).

One final comment from me then I will shut up and leave you in Lin's capable hands: when you had all three items in one track and were hearing 12 seconds of silence between the end of piece #1 and the start of piece #2, did you ever consider the possibility that this silence was part of the actual recordings? If there is excess silence at the end of piece #1, you will need to reduce its playing duration in order to ignore the trailing silence. If there is excess silence at the start of piece #2 you will need to set a "Start" value in order to skip over the unwanted leading silence. These thoughts might also help inform Lin's thinking.

Peter

[Lin Evans]

Hi Peter,

That's why I really prefer to see the project - much quicker to simply look at the audio tracks in an editor to see if they are correct without extraneous silence, then put them in their respective places whether in separate tracks with specific longer offsets or in a single track. The reason I suggested separate tracks is that it's easier to remove one or more for testing and remote help. Also, using the tools such as offsets, fades and duration helps new users get a feel for how the PTE audio controls work.

Best regards,

Lin

[Lin Evans]

Hi Peter,

That's why I really prefer to see the project - much quicker to simply look at the audio tracks in an editor to see if they are correct without extraneous silence, then put them in their respective places whether in separate tracks with specific longer offsets or in a single track. The reason I suggested separate tracks is that it's easier to remove one or more for testing and remote help. Also, using the tools such as offsets, fades and duration helps new users get a feel for how the PTE audio controls work.

Best regards,

Lin

[steven62]

Hello Peter,

Peter wrote:

You have presented among your screen captures one that showed three items in a single track and later, one that showed two items, each in their own track.

The reasons that you see this in the various captures is due to the results of trying various things to try to iron out the problem to which nothing has worked.

Peter wrote:

when you had all three items in one track and were hearing 12 seconds of silence between the end of piece #1 and the start of piece #2, did you ever consider the possibility that this silence was part of the actual recordings?

I think you have hit the nail on the head with this one. I never even considered it and I believe you are correct. I will check it tonight.

I may have sounded somewhat vague about uploading to the forum because not only is this my second show but it is for my wife's family and while there is nothing inappropriate I do not have permission from everyone to post to the forum.

I did sign up for Mediafire last night and was going to send the link to Lin but had to cut it short as I have to work today. Even though I am retired (I am 67) I need to work part time and am going through some medical issues at the same time which does not allow me the time I need to troubleshoot like I used to.

I really love this program and have gotten every tutorial that I could to learn it (can't afford the pay ones right now) and when I saw the one that Lin put out on the envelope tool I did not realize that I would not be able to pick the part of the timeline that I needed to work on so now I am learning the audio properties box (which is a good thing).

I appreciate your input as I believe that will answer the problem and you have given me another valuable lesson in using PTE.

I am editing this as I forgot to mention that Lin has been a great inspiration to me and the fact that he stuck with me through this is proof that not only have I purchased the right program, but the folks here on this forum are second to none. Further proof is that you were willing to post something that as an inexperienced user of slide show programs never even considered.

Thanks

Steven

[fh1805]

The reasons that you see this in the various captures is due to the results of trying various things to try to iron out the problem to which nothing has worked.

I understood that. I was simply setting the scene for what I was about to explain to you.

If the new knowledge still hasn't solved your problems, just keep on asking. We will, collectively, get you through this and out the other side!

regards,

Peter

[fh1805]

I do not know how to modify the subject line here in the forum so if possible could a moderator show it as solved?

Let's hold off on that until we have solved all the aspects. There's one still outstanding.

The problem with the waveform is still there and I am wondering if there is an answer for this (I ask out of curiosity). It just seems weird that one cannot go to a specific place on the expanded waveform.

Could you please clarify exactly what your remaining concern is?

regards,

Peter

[steven62]

Let's hold off on that until we have solved all the aspects. There's one still outstanding.

Could you please clarify exactly what your remaining concern is?

regards,

Peter

Hi Peter,

I am going to quote myself from message #1 to show what I meant.

When I go to project options, and press the waveform button for music 'A' the timeline begins at zero up to 4 :40 and will not go any further.

When I select music 'B' it goes from zero to about 3:15.

What I want the waveform to show is 4:26 to 4:42 so I can put in my key frames to shorten the time between them. I will also need to do this between music '2' and '3'

The point here is that the expanded waveform will not allow me to bring to the center of the waveform where selection 'A' ends and selection 'B' begins.

Steven

[davegee]

The waveforms in Project Options are the individual Waveforms - the composite Waveform is only shown in the Time Line. If you click on each clip in turn it shows the Waveform for THAT clip alone.

In V7.0.7 the only way of doing what you want is via the CUSTOMIZE - AUDIO CLIP PROPERTIES.

I hope that I have understood your "problem"?

DG

[steven62]

The waveforms in Project Options are the individual Waveforms - the composite Waveform is only shown in the Time Line. If you click on each clip in turn it shows the Waveform for THAT clip alone.

In V7.0.7 the only way of doing what you want is via the CUSTOMIZE - AUDIO CLIP PROPERTIES.

I hope that I have understood your "problem"?

DG

Yes, Thank you.

Steven