Can we discuss pocket size cameras?

[KyDan]

Greetings!

I know many of you here have very nice, very expensive cameras and I drool over the photos you share here.

I have other "priorities"

I have 3 small "pocket" size digital cameras.

My most recent is a Fujifilm finepix F72 exr.

I'm pretty happy with this camera for still shots.

It has rapid recovery of flash, long battery life, very nice WIDE angle lens with 10x optical zoom.

It's about the size of a pack of cigarettes.

The small size and light weight mean we take it everywhere.

I wear it on my belt when we're motorcycle riding or hiking or sightseeing.

It fits in my shirt pocket at weddings and other party functions.

I learned long ago that a large camera often left at home or in the car does

not take good pictures!!

My one major complaint about this camera and all 3 previous cameras is the lousy video.

Specifically the sound on the video.

This camera video sound is really annoying if you have any sort of loud or constant

background noise.

IF I take video of a rushing mountain stream or a water fall or ocean waves,

the sound volume oscillates about 2 times per second.

Sort of like this SHH shh SHH shh SHH shh. That would be a waterfall.

Voices are recognizable but the constant warble of the background is very annoying.

Also any sort of wind completely obliterates the other sounds. All you hear is the roar of

the wind.

If you take video in relative quiet you hear the almost constant sounds of the auto

focus motor and of course the zoom motor is very loud in the video.

Last and least important, we had a spectacular thunder storm a few weeks ago.

I stood outside and attempted to get some lightning flashes on video.

Those turned out OK but the auto volume control completely blanked out any

thunder. All the video shows is the flash, my flinch and then dead quiet when

the thunder would have been crashing.

Obviously this camera has a tiny internal mic and it's not protected from wind.

I suppose a solution would be some sort of external mic but most pocket size

cameras of this type do not offer an external mic option.

I'm willing to purchase another camera if I can feel confident the sound quality

would be improved enough to make the move.

My primary desire is small, light, automatic still shots with a decent video

option when needed.

Any suggestions??

[Ken Cox]

YOU CAN START HERE

http://bl169w.blu169.mail.live.com/default.aspx?n=1072787682&fid=1&fav=1#n=1872377790&fid=2&pdir=NextPage&paid=4c2c5a27-08b2-11e2-94b7-00237de461e8&pad=2012-09-27T14%3A47%3A56.547Z&pidx=13&mid=019e8d3a-0894-11e2-931a-00237de41524&fv=1

KEN

[Ken Cox]

Dan

Eric is about the last one that bought a new camera and it was a "bridge" type

and he is making great videos once he figured it out

my canon S3IS is a few years old but i am making satisfactory video of volleyball games i am being told

look me up on facebook to see for yourself

ken

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Dan

I had one of the early Fuji Bridge cameras, they weren't called Bridge cameras in those days, looked like a DSLR but with a non interchangable lens, I think around 1998. It took great stills but I never used it for video. That was stolen in 2005 in France & I replaced it with the current version. Didn't use that for video only once but found it didn't record sound. From 2007 to this year I had a series of DSLR's & a Canon Bridge. The DSLR I used for video was the D5000 Nikon, but wasn't happy with the video. My current camera is a Panasonic FZ150, recommened by Tom. Takes good video, but intermittant sound depending on conditions. Any sort of wind & you have to adopt the setting to alleviate it, but it is a compromise. I already had a digital recorder with a tripod thread so I bought a hot shoe fitting & attached it to the FZ150 with reasonable results. The benefit was I could use the recorded to give me a second copy of the sound track which could be edited in Audacity. When Audacity developed the function to strip audio from video clips , I used the recorder less. You can follow my journey with the FZ150 by typing FZ150 into PTE's search box where you will find links to various shows I've made with the camera & one in particular using the recorder, The FZ150 has now been superceeded by the I think 160, with very little change, the FZ150 is still around if you look on Amazon. I've attached a couple of pics, the sleeping couple were around 35mtrs away the second is of me using the camera with the mike on the ground in front of me, taken with my wife's Nikon D40.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[KyDan]

YOU CAN START HERE

http://bl169w.blu169...237de41524&fv=1

KEN

Ken, when I click the link you posted above it takes me to a hotmail log in page??

[Ken Cox]

Dan

sorry about that

Buying Guide September 27, 2012

http://mailing.enews.pcmag.com/read/archive?id=3773&mid=1067430&e=pbyk%40sympatico%2eca&x=9a16df84

try this

ken

[Ken Cox]

DAN

another couple links

http://www.pcmag.com...,2403874,00.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/

ken

[Conflow]

Hi Dan,

I very much appreciate your point of view concerning "Pocket-Cameras" ~ Yes, I carry a Fuji-JX.530 Pocket-camera with me

virtually everywhere I go, simply for the convenience of it because I hate using my Panasonic-FZ48 while I am in transit from

one place to another....That begs the question....Why a Fuji JX Series-camera ??

Because they take really good Photographs and they also provide superb AVCHD-Video (Licenced from Sony-Panasonic).

The "downside" ~ Pocket-Cameras by virtue of their size and design can not provide decent Audio-recordings because they

can not contain the sheer physical bulk of a Unidirectional-Cardoid Microphone (noise canellation type) and anyone who

thinks they can is simply fooling themselves. The professional O/B Camera-Industry would be using that feature if possible !!

The way around the problem is quite simple:- Purchase a small (pocket-sized) Digital Sound-Recorder together with a Cardoid

Microphone and mount the Camera + Mic on to a "Camera Flash-Gun Bracket" with the ¼" inch Hand-screws provided and

place the Recorder in your pocket ~ the whole set-up is hardly noticeble and the Sound-quality will be superb. Another bonus

is that the 'Flash-Bracket' holds the Camera quite stable and you should get reasonable Hand-panning with it.

(Suggest a Lab-Gear Dynamic-Cardoid Microphone 600-1000.ohms type ~ Reasonable and very robust with Wind-screen).

Some shots from my Fuji-Pocket Setup as to the quality of that Camera-series. (Resized to 1280x720 for use here)

Brian.(Conflow)

[Igor]

I highly recommend Canon Powershot S100 - professional compact camera.

[KyDan]

I highly recommend Canon Powershot S100 - professional compact camera.

Igor, have you taken video in wind conditions with this camera??

Have you taken video with constant background noise, such as water fall or rushing stream or large fountain?

I'd love to see small sample of both conditions above!!

[KyDan]

Brian, have you taken video in a noisy environment with this camera?? Does your video sound exhibit the "wow" or

sound volume pulsing that I mention above??

I could live with my camera video except for that sound volume pulse! I know some cameras prohibit the zoom

feature in video just so the zoom motor won't make noise in the video.

At least I have the option of zoom in video if I want it.

AND my little camera has a very wide angle lens with 10x optical zoom. Even more expensive models

do not have this much zoom.

Would love to see sample of video in high noise situation if you have one!

Thanks to you all for your suggestions!!

If these compact camera makers would just put a microphone jack on the camera I could

choose to use an external hi quality mic or not.

Now it seems my only option is a separate sound recorder and then I have to sync the

sound to the video which seems like a large extra step!!

[Ken Cox]

Dan

can you not adjust the sound volume via the menu

read your op inst's for details

ken

[KyDan]

Ken, I have gone thru the manual and find no mention of record volume adjustments.

Here is a sample of the annoying "sound volume pulse" I refer to.

If I could find a camera with good video that did not exhibit this noisy environment sound pulse I could

live with the other complaints.

I also believe that it might be possible to glue a small square of felt over the microphone holes

and get some measure of relief from the wind roar issue. What do you think??

7 meg AVI with sound pulse.

[Conflow]

Hi Igor,

Yes, the Canon-Powershot S-100 is an excellent (professional) 'Pocket-Camera' for those who can afford it. In the U.K its approx: £220

and in the U.S its about $ 340 and has now being replaced with the S-110 which costs about $.450 ~ and both of them do 1080 which

also includes the Fuji-JX530 with AVCHD output (1080.out). We bought our 2.Fuji's from Argos a year ago at Eu.139 each now available

from Amazon from as little as $.80....it certainly pays to wait !!

Brian (Conflow)

[Conflow]

Dan,

I played your 'Sound-Track' and recorded it into 'Audacity Sound-Editor' ~ firstly I had to raise its volume level by some 12.db to 'Normalise' it.

At normal levels it replayed perfectly except for a tiny click at the end of the soundtrack ~ it sounded like a switch click.

I then converted it into a WAV-Recording and also into an MP3-Recording ~ both replayed absolutely perfectly.

As I have no idea what 'Equipment & Software' you are using to replay the track so any advice I might give is pure conjecture at this time ~

However I have experienced that "wow-wow effect" (only with contineous sound-level Tracks) like your's and that was caused by a loose

intermittent 'Headphones-Jackplug' and on one occassion by an intermittent 'Speaker cable'......its definitely a System-fault not the Track.

By any chance are you using a 'Sound-Player' with Echo & Reverb features ??.....If so turn-off these effects as they give "post-echo" with

contineous sound-tracks.

Here below are the 2 Tracks I recorded.

Brian (Conflow)

Mp3-Track.mp3

Wav-Track.wav

[KyDan]

Yes, the Canon-Powershot S-100 is an excellent (professional) 'Pocket-Camera' for those who can afford it. In the U.K its approx: £220

and in the U.S its about $ 340 and has now being replaced with the S-110 which costs about $.450

Yes, I saw the large increase in price for the newer S-110.

I wonder if it is mostly because the new model has blue tooth??

This is a feature I don't care about so I would not spend the extra for just that extra feature.

I believe the Fuji cameras are a good buy if you don't consider the sound issues.

I will be purchasing a new camera eventually as I want to get HD video capability. I don't think all brands will exhibit this sound pulse I

hear in mine but wonder if all the Fuji cameras do that?

We also have a brand new 3 week old grandson so my cameras are not gathering dust at the present time!

I wish I could talk to a Fuji tech support person but haven't found a phone number for live tech support.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Brian, have you taken video in a noisy environment with this camera?? Does your video sound exhibit the "wow" or

sound volume pulsing that I mention above??

I could live with my camera video except for that sound volume pulse! I know some cameras prohibit the zoom

feature in video just so the zoom motor won't make noise in the video.

At least I have the option of zoom in video if I want it.

AND my little camera has a very wide angle lens with 10x optical zoom. Even more expensive models

do not have this much zoom.

Would love to see sample of video in high noise situation if you have one!

Thanks to you all for your suggestions!!

If these compact camera makers would just put a microphone jack on the camera I could

choose to use an external hi quality mic or not.

Now it seems my only option is a separate sound recorder and then I have to sync the

sound to the video which seems like a large extra step!!

The FZ150 has a mike jack.

Yachtsman1

[KyDan]

I then converted it into a WAV-Recording and also into an MP3-Recording ~ both replayed absolutely perfectly.

Brian, this is very interesting!

When I view the AVI file using windows media player on my desktop PC I get the sound pulse very distinctly.

I viewed the file using winamp it also pulses.

I just now viewed it with apple quick time player and the sound was steady with no pulse that I can hear.

Maybe it is not the camera after all.

Of course my other complaints about wind roar and internal motor noise are valid.

I need to make up a short P2E file using some stills and one of my water fall videos and see how it sounds then.

I'm still looking for another pocket size camera in spite of these sound problems.

I really would like to have some HD video capability.

Thanks again!!

[Conflow]

Hi Dan,

Just to get back to you on this issue of "Sound-pulsing" ~ I have found what your problem really is,viz:-

The F72-Camera (2010) was Fuji's first adventure into the "Home-video Market" ~ they were playing it safe.

***...It only provides 2 Image-sizes 320x240 pixel and 640x480.pixel at 24.Frames/Sec.

***...The Images are in the format "MJpeg" (Motion-JPeg) ~ an absolute basic entry level.

***...The Sound-file is in "PCM-Format" ~ again an absolute basic entry level.

1)

These are all wrapped into an AVI-Container (Audio/Video Interleaved)......Thats naughty as commercial AVI has moved

on and is more or less standardised to various Mpeg-Formats (Video&Sound) although others still use it as a "Wrapper"

for their particular products such as the examples above....(more below)

2)

Although AVI was originally developed by Microsoft way back in the 1990's it was never designed to handle "PCM-sound"

and even to this day it doesn't ~ that is unless you download a suite of Codecs called "Windows-Player Codecs" and

they can give problems. The same goes for "WinAmp" an open.org variation of the Windws-Media Player. As they are now

both players will attempt to render the Sound-track but because its in (contineous) PCM it literally 'chokes' the rendering

system of the players giving rise to 'system-hunting' which causes your "wow-wow" effect.

As your Camera stands now ~ Its only useful for making Flash and Swf Video for "You-Tube" etc. I have examples of both

but I'm not allowed to download Adobe-Flash products here ~ I can send these privately if you wish.

Note

I would highly recommend that you downnlaod "Media-Player Classic (Home-Cinema)" ~ see links below and/or download

VLC-Player a more "Universal" Multi-Media Player. You are going to need these Players one way or another and they play

the above Flash-formats as well as everything else....(Attachments).

Hope this is useful with your New-Camera considerations.

Brian (Conflow)

Media-Player-Classic (Link)

http://www.snapfiles.../get/mpchc.html

VLC-Player (Link)

http://www.snapfiles...t/videolan.html

[KyDan]

Brian, I downloaded and installed both of the video player programs you suggested.

Both exhibit the sound pulse exactly like I hear in windows media player and WinAmp.

So far the only player I have found that does not pulse the sound is Apple quick time player.

I am definitely in the market for a replacement camera--

If any of you have suggestions I am open!!

My wish list is

1st- small frame I want pocket size rather than a DSLR or DSLR type camera.

2nd some sort of HD video capability What FILE type should it have?? MP4?? Something else?

Suggestions?

I just don't see me carrying 2 cameras when we are out in the woods or sightseeing or motorcycle riding.

This means my "next" camera will replace my current Fuji F72

I'll miss some of the F72 attributes! It has a great wide angle to 10x optical zoom.

Most cameras that I'm looking at today only go to 5x zoom.

The F72 was the fastest camera to recover from flash and it's also very fast to shoot without flash.

It has face recognition which seemed to help. The auto red eye reduction really worked. I can't

remember the last time I needed to touch up a photo for red eye.

Finally the F72 would go all day or even 2 or 3 days on one battery. It really does have long

battery life.

Once I replace it I really feel like I'm abandoning a friend but the lousy video is the deal

breaker. I need something else.....

[Ken Cox]

Dan

you might consider a fanny pack or a small backpack and buy a bridge camera

or

find a mountain climbing website and see what they recommend

ken

[Conflow]

Dan,

Your last Post really concerns me because I know for a fact that VLC-Player and Home-Cinema definitely play those files !!

There is not much point considering a New-Camera if there is a problem with your PC which needs to be sorted first.

My point being ~ if I or other Members wish to send you Demo-Videos from XXX-Camera you may get the wrong result

to that intended by the contributor ~ lets have a look at the PC first.

What Computer are you using ??....Make & Model and Operating-System would be of real help.

QUESTION: When you downloaded the 2 New-Players did you "Set" their working Formats & Parameters ??

If not here below will show you how to do it with "Home-Classic-Media-Player" you will also have to do it with VLC.

Edited at 15:00 Hours

Brian (Conflow)

P.S

Dan, I just read your Post below and I will get back to you about it......XP-We use ourselves......But 1st. the Players.

[KyDan]

Brian, I am going to upgrade my camera eventually.

You said in part

The F72-Camera (2010) was Fuji's first adventure into the "Home-video Market" ~ they were playing it safe.

***...It only provides 2 Image-sizes 320x240 pixel and 640x480.pixel at 24.Frames/Sec.

***...The Images are in the format "MJpeg" (Motion-JPeg) ~ an absolute basic entry level.

***...The Sound-file is in "PCM-Format" ~ again an absolute basic entry level.

This is enough reason for me to try another camera.

My computer is secondary at the moment. Yes I will need to upgrade it one day but for now it's working

for most everything else except this video from the Fuji.

I'm still running Windows XP.. I have a laptop we use when we are traveling. I'll try the video on it

so see how the sound works but again..... I'm going to upgrade cameras eventually because I want HD video

I can watch online movie trailers in HD with no problem. I listen to Pandora radio just fine.

I have downloaded several P2E files lately from others on this site and all played flawlessly.

I don't normally watch DVD movies on my PC but I have tried in the past and they work fine.

I know I am being stubborn in that I want to stay with a compact camera.

I know I could go to a larger body and get better results BUT I think there is a reasonable compromise out there somewhere.

I know precious little about all this, I just want reasonable results.

You say the video files from my F72 are Mjpeg and that is old outdated file type.

What type file is needed for decent HD video?? MP4 or some other?

I am reading reviews that Ken suggested and also looking for online personal reviews.

It's a lot to try and take in!!

[Ken Cox]

Dan

the whole enchilada here

ken

https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADFA_enCA470CA470&q=cameras+that+mountain+climbers+use

[KyDan]

I've ordered a camera but I didn't break the bank.

Consumer Reports magazine gave a good rating to a Canon Power shot SX 130 IS

Here is an Amazon link to the description if you're interested--

Canon Powershot at Amazon

FYI, I ordered a "good condition used" thru an Amazon 3rd party seller.

$90 US plus shipping and tax.

I get the Amazon satisfaction or return it guarantee so I figure the savings are worth the

risk buying used.

As soon as I get my hands on it I'll take a small video or two and post links if you'd like

to see my results.

I know this camera won't solve my original complaints about wind roar and

motor noise but I'm hoping I can overcome some of those with better technique.

I can shut off continuous focus and refrain from zooming during video shots.

That should cut down or even eliminate motor noise.

I will try adding a tiny square of felt over the microphone holes to see if that

helps any with the wind roar issue.

AND finally I hope this video quality will be much improved over my current camera.

This Canon is a body size larger than my current tiny pocket camera but I believe it will

still be small enough to wear on my belt in a belt pouch.

Film at 11 as they say!

Thanks again to you all for your help.

I'll be back with more questions once I've got it in my hot little hands