Adding Cloned Keyframes to a long video clip...

[goddi]

Greetings,

Normally, when I have inserted a video clip, it has not been at the beginning of the show. However, I just started creating a show with a long video clip at the beginning and I want to put in Text in the intro to the video and animate it and fade it out after a few seconds.

The initial video is 35 minutes long. So when I put in Text and then Clone the Keyframe to do some animation, it is very difficult to see and adjust the Cloned Text Keyframe. The entire 35 minute video is fitted into the O&A's play-line.There seems to be no way of 'expanding' the O&A play-line to be able to easily see/move/adjust the Cloned Text Keyframes by small amounts (as you can in an audio editor, like Audacity). When I try to drag the Cloned Text Keyframe by just a tiny bit, it snaps back to the left's beginning spot. I have manually entered Key Frame Time to move the Cloned Text Keyframe but it is hit and miss because the Cloned Text Keyframe is sitting practically on top of the original beginning keyframe. Is there an easier way of working with this type of situation or a way to expand the O&A's play-line to see the keyframes more clearly?

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

The quick answer is no. There is no way to expand the view to make it easier to work with this. If you are trying to synchronize the text effects to correspond to particular frames of the video, it would be very difficult to do visually.

The work around, on the other hand is fairly straight-forward, but perhaps not obvious. What I do is use a stop-watch. Inexpensive digital stop-watches are available at places like RadioShack. The work-around is to first time the area of the video where you expect the text effect to happen. If there are particular frames where you want specific things to occur, then write down the specific times from the starting point.

Next, take the video out and substitute a conventional image and set the display time to the exact time of your text animation. Now you have an expended view to work with. Do your text animations with the substitute image then "copy" the object. Load your video back and delete the substitute image and paste the copied text object.

Best regards,

Lin

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Gary

I've had the snap back with video adjustments in 7.05-7.07. have you tried adding a picture after the video clip then adjusting?

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

The quick answer is no. There is no way to expand the view to make it easier to work with this. If you are trying to synchronize the text effects to correspond to particular frames of the video, it would be very difficult to do visually.

The work around, on the other hand is fairly straight-forward, but perhaps not obvious. What I do is use a stop-watch. Inexpensive digital stop-watches are available at places like RadioShack. The work-around is to first time the area of the video where you expect the text effect to happen. If there are particular frames where you want specific things to occur, then write down the specific times from the starting point.

Next, take the video out and substitute a conventional image and set the display time to the exact time of your text animation. Now you have an expended view to work with. Do your text animations with the substitute image then "copy" the object. Load your video back and delete the substitute image and paste the copied text object.

Best regards,

Lin

==================================

Lin,

Is there any technical reason that would prevent being able to use the "Shift/Mouse Wheel" to expand/contract the O&A play-line as we can do in the Timeline? That would solve the problem.

I think I'd rather use the Animation/Key Frame Time to adjust the Text block. Get it close, then adjust with it. This is difficult because the play-line is so compressed but it worked with the Text block I had at the beginning of the video.

But I also have a question about putting Text in the middle of a video clip. I was able to put some Text in the beginning of my video, and animate it and make it fade-out. I was just tinkering around and tried to put Text so that it would appear only in the middle of the video for a few seconds. I could not. It always would appear at the start of the video and I could not get it to 'pop-up' somewhere in the middle of the video, even if I moved the Text's Keyframe. Is this, too, not possible???

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

It would be a question for Igor to answer. Without knowing the internals of PTE programming - I really don't have a clue about using the Shift/Mouse Wheel and setting it to do as you question.

As for the iterative approach - that works too, but perhaps would ultimately be more work than using a substitute image and stop-watch to get it precise with minimal "tinkering."

Putting text into the middle somewhere is quite easy to do. Remember, the first keyframe is always set to 100% opacity and always at the beginning of the timeline for the individual slide by default. So to achieve what you want, just change the opacity to zero for keyframe one of your text animation. Next clone the keyframe and move it or set it to any point along the video timeline. This will then be the defacto "beginning" of your text animation with zero opacity. Now set the third keyframe for the text animation to 100% and the time between keyframe two and three will be the "fade in" time for your text. Animate as desired with additional keyframes...

Best regards,

Lin

[fh1805]

Gary,

I've just tried adding text to a video(both as a child of the video and as an independent object). I successfully set it to start at 0 opacity and then between 2 seconds and 3 seconds into the video fade up to 100% opacity. I had no problems at all. I was using v7.0.7.

regards,

Peter

[goddi]

Gary

I've had the snap back with video adjustments in 7.05-7.07. have you tried adding a picture after the video clip then adjusting?

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

====================================

Eric,

I am not sure what you mean. I am basically using PTE to add Text into a video clip, or insert an image somewhere in the video clip for a few seconds. I have two issues. If the video is long, say 35 minutes, and you view it in O&A, the full 35 minutes is displayed in the O&A window. This makes it difficult to animate the Text because play-line in O&A is so compressed. Very difficult to fine-tune the animation. I'd like to be able to expand it as we can expand the Timeline by using the Shift/mousewheel. My question is, can this be done?

But the other strange thing is that if you add Text or a graphic to a video clip it always starts at the beginning of the clip, not where you want to have it appear, say, in the middle of the clip, even if you move its Keyframe.

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

This is not strange at all, it's the way the program is intended to work. Whether still slides or video, object's life begin at the zero point of the timeline for that particular slide or object.

Control the appearance with zero opacity and hold the opacity with a second keyframe. It has "always" worked this way since version 5 when Objects and Animations became possible.

This may run contrary to your way of "thinking" but it is perfectly logical from a programmer's perspective.

Best regards,

Lin

====================================

But the other strange thing is that if you add Text or a graphic to a video clip it always starts at the beginning of the clip, not where you want to have it appear, say, in the middle of the clip, even if you move its Keyframe.

Gary

[davegee]

If my idea of Absolute and Relative Keyframes was adopted it would make things Oh so easy!!

DG

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

It would be a question for Igor to answer. Without knowing the internals of PTE programming - I really don't have a clue about using the Shift/Mouse Wheel and setting it to do as you question.

As for the iterative approach - that works too, but perhaps would ultimately be more work than using a substitute image and stop-watch to get it precise with minimal "tinkering."

Putting text into the middle somewhere is quite easy to do. Remember, the first keyframe is always set to 100% opacity and always at the beginning of the timeline for the individual slide by default. So to achieve what you want, just change the opacity to zero for keyframe one of your text animation. Next clone the keyframe and move it or set it to any point along the video timeline. This will then be the defacto "beginning" of your text animation with zero opacity. Now set the third keyframe for the text animation to 100% and the time between keyframe two and three will be the "fade in" time for your text. Animate as desired with additional keyframes...

Best regards,

Lin

=========================

Lin,

Your clarification that the first keyframe is always set to 100% opacity helps me understand what to do. I tried your steps and it worked. But I may be doing it a bit different, though. I inserted a Text block. I moved the Text block's keyframe to a new position in the video clip where I wanted it to appear and made its opacity to be 0%. I then cloned that keyframe but did not move it and made its opacity to be 100%. I did not move it but it seems that PTE automatically nudges it a bit down the play-line, so the Text block appears nicely at that point. Then I cloned that 2nd keyframe and move it down the play-line to where I wanted the Text block to disappear and set its opacity to 0%. BUT, from the 2nd keyframe (opacity=100%) to the 3rd keyframe (opacity=0%), the Text is slowly fading-out during the entire segment. What is controlling the fade-in and fade-out of the Text blocks?

I still find it extremely difficult to 'adjust' the 3 keyframes that are needed to accomplish this because the O&A play-line is so compressed. See the attached. But I have another question.

In trying to adjust these 3 keyframes using the 'iterative' approach, I am confused by the differences in what the 'Keyframe' shows and what the 'Animation/Key Frame Time' shows. For example, for several Text blocks that I put in:

The Keyframe shows 15.37.516 but the Key Frame Time shows 937516.

The Keyframe shows 23:48.414 but the Key Frame Time shows 1428414.

The Keyframe shows 14:59:000 but the Key Frame Time shows 899000.

Only the bolded numbers correspond. How do I interpret this when I am trying to make adjustments to the Keyframes and they are not exactly the same numbers? Is this a bug?

Gary

[fh1805]

The Keyframe shows 15.37.516...

This is the time offset from the start of your sequence (in minutes, seconds and milliseconds)

...but the Key Frame Time shows 937516

This is the offset from the start of this particular slide (in milliseconds).

regards,

Peter

[goddi]

This is the time offset from the start of your sequence (in minutes, seconds and milliseconds)

This is the offset from the start of this particular slide (in milliseconds).

regards,

Peter

==================

Thanks Peter, I had no idea.

Gary

[Guest Yachtsman1]

====================================

Eric,

I am not sure what you mean. I am basically using PTE to add Text into a video clip, or insert an image somewhere in the video clip for a few seconds. I have two issues. If the video is long, say 35 minutes, and you view it in O&A, the full 35 minutes is displayed in the O&A window. This makes it difficult to animate the Text because play-line in O&A is so compressed. Very difficult to fine-tune the animation. I'd like to be able to expand it as we can expand the Timeline by using the Shift/mousewheel. My question is, can this be done?

But the other strange thing is that if you add Text or a graphic to a video clip it always starts at the beginning of the clip, not where you want to have it appear, say, in the middle of the clip, even if you move its Keyframe.

Gary

Hi Gary

If I am adjusting video frames to match a specific point in the sound track, if there is no slide after the video clip the adjustment snaps to the end of the clip. If I place a slide after the video clip can make the adjustment without the snap back. Maybe we are at cross purposes, but when you mentioned "snap" it registered.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[jkb]

Gary,

Why not insert several blank slides of the required length for your various text items.

That way it will be easy to adjust each to the timings you require.

Your video clip can then be added as a Master Clip to play over the blank slides.

(Add the video to slide 1 & set to Master Video Track

Then you add the same video to each of the other slides & set them all to be 'Link To'

If you have added the Text Items first you will need to move them up above the video clip in the object stack

(CTRL +PageUp) to make sure they show on top of the video.

You can even use the transitions between each of the blank slides to fade your text in & out.

Hope this helps.

Jill

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

Sorry, I've been away from the computer for a day.... Let me see if I can explain how this works.

Keyframes are arbitrary points in time "between which" events are made to happen. The emphasis here is on what happens "between" two points in time, not what happens at a single point in time.

Keeping this in mind, when you begin a slide, video, etc., you start with a keyframe with the opacity set to 100% by default. This makes logical sense because if it were not so you would not necessarily be "aware" that the object of the keframe existed without actually remembering that you had inserted this object, slide, video, etc. So at the starting point, in the relevant case, you have text appearing. If you then set the keyframe to zero opacity, it will stay invisible without a second keyframe (remember between two points in time) to turn the opacity back on. The distance between the two keyframes determines the amount of time on the timeline for the change to happen. If you place the second keyframe very close to the first, the text will appear quickly. If you place the second keyframe further along the timeline, the text will gradually fade in over the amount of time represented by the distance from keyframe one.

Let's take an example: If you start with zero opacity then in 20 seconds you set a keyframe with 100% opacity, the text will gradually fade in for 20 seconds. On the other hand, if you start the first keyframe with zero opacity, then place a second keyframe at 19 seconds also with zero opacity the text will stay invisible from the start to 19 seconds.Of course if you didn't place a keyframe at 19 seconds, the text would still be invisible, however, by placing a keyframe at 19 seconds, you can the place another keyframe at say 20 seconds with 100% opacity and your text will quickly (in one second) appear.

So any time you wish to hold some "event" such as opacity, zoom, pan, etc., for a period of time and then change it after that time expires, it will require three keyframes. Let's quickly see how we would zoom a picture then hold the zoom, then continue to zoom some more. First we would decide when we want the zoom to happen and we would place a second keyframe with the initial zoom value (the one at the beginning of the slide) in it. Then we would place a third keyframe where we wanted the new zoom value to temporarily end and place the new amount of zoom in it.

To this point the image comes on screen and remains for that period between the beginning keyframe and keyframe two, then between keyframe two and keyframe three it zooms to the new value. If we did nothing else, it would remain at the new zoom until the slide display time ended. But, we wanted to continue the zoom after some time. So we place a fourth keyframe further along the timeline with the same value in it as in the third keyframe. This is telling PTE that we want to "hold" this value for that period of time until we begin zooming again. Then we place a fifth keyframe with yet another value further along the timeline and between the forth and fifth keyframe the image zooms to the new value. If we do nothing further, it will remain at this zoom until the display time expires.

So what we learn is that to "change" we only need two keyframes, but to "hold" a change for a period of time and then change again requires three keyframes. The changes happen "between" keyframes and to "stop" and hold a change we need to tell PTE by using keyframes.

Years ago, when Igor first initiated keyframes, he called them "keypoints." Then because of the use of the term "keyframes" in the video industry, the nomenclature was changed. Actually, I think "keypoints" were easier to understand for someone just beginning to use this feature. Think of keyframes as a "point" in time and I think it will be easier to understand. Once you thoroughly digest this concept, it will be much easier to get the results you expect.

Best regards,

Lin

=========================

Lin,

Your clarification that the first keyframe is always set to 100% opacity helps me understand what to do. I tried your steps and it worked. But I may be doing it a bit different, though. I inserted a Text block. I moved the Text block's keyframe to a new position in the video clip where I wanted it to appear and made its opacity to be 0%. I then cloned that keyframe but did not move it and made its opacity to be 100%. I did not move it but it seems that PTE automatically nudges it a bit down the play-line, so the Text block appears nicely at that point. Then I cloned that 2nd keyframe and move it down the play-line to where I wanted the Text block to disappear and set its opacity to 0%. BUT, from the 2nd keyframe (opacity=100%) to the 3rd keyframe (opacity=0%), the Text is slowly fading-out during the entire segment. What is controlling the fade-in and fade-out of the Text blocks?

Gary

[davegee]

Jill's suggestion has an awful lot going for it.

Split the video into chunks using Master and Linked and you'll have an O&A Timeline which is more manageable.

DG

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

Sorry, I've been away from the computer for a day.... Let me see if I can explain how this works.

Keyframes are arbitrary points in time "between which" events are made to happen. The emphasis here is on what happens "between" two points in time, not what happens at a single point in time......

Best regards,

Lin

=====================

Lin,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I understand it now. My problem was that I have always started any text right at the beginning of the slide...so my brain was not getting the concept that you explained. I wanted it to start right at the beginning so it worked just fine. I never tried to put text in the middle of the slide's time as I am trying to do with my long inserted video clip.

But...you did not get to my last question. Let's say I have the first Text's keyframe set at zero opacity. Then, I set its second keyframe to be 100% opacity to make it appear. Why is it slowly fading-in between these two keyframes? I have to put them almost on top of each other to minimize the fade-in time. The only control for the length of the fade-in is how close can I get the second keyframe to sit on top of the first keyframe without causing a problem. Is this the only way to control the transition from the zero-opacity-keyframe to the 100%-opacity-keyframe, by having to put the second keyframe right up tight to the first keyframe? What if I want some other transition of the text than fade-in?

If this is true (having to put the 100% opacity keyframe right up next to the 0% opacity keyframe to reduce the fade-in), then we need to be able to expand/contract the O&A's play-line as we can do in the Timeline, using the shift-mouse wheel. With a long video (I am working with a single 35 minute video), the O&A's play-line is too compressed to make these fine adjustments or placements of the keyframes. When you are working with a 'normal' slideshow and the single image stays on for maybe 4-8 seconds, you have more 'room' to make these adjustments along the play-line.

Same problem holds for the last two keyframe when you are trying to make the Text disappear.

After all of this, I think my main points are that we need a way to 'expand' the play-line to help placement of the keyframes when you have a very long video for 35 minutes or if you even have a single image on for 35 minutes, for example. And, is there a way to not have the Text fade-in and fade-out in the beginning and in the end of the Text's keyframes? Not that it is bad, but I'd like more control or possible transitions available for the appearance and disappearance of the Text.

Or am I missing something here?

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

I think you missed it. That's essentially what the entire explanation was about.....

What happens in terms of change happens "between keyframes." If the "distance" (which represents time) is further, the effect change will be slower. If the keyframes are close together in terms of "time" (not necessarily position) then the change will happen fast. If the two keyframes are one second apart, the change will happen in one second. If they are 20 seconds apart, the change will happen gradually over the 20 second period.

Nothing is "instantaneous." If you want the text to "pop up" then you need to separate the keyframes by a tiny increment of time such as 100 ms. Regardless of the actual distance between keyframes in terms of space, what is important is the differences in "time." If you have a long expanse of time represented in a short space as you do for a long video, then a short distance between keyframes may represent considerable differences in time. Remember, changes happen over time.

If you want the text to "fade-in" at the beginning of a video, just put your second keyframe at a point in "time" where you want the text to be 100% opaque and set the opacity at the initial keyframe to zero and the second keyframe to 100 percent. Then to hold it at 100% and later fade it out, set a third keyframe at 100% at the point where you want it to start fading out. Then set a fourth keyframe at that point in "time" where you want the fade out to end with an opacity of zero.

You may expand the "visual" as I explained with a temporary slide then copy/paste the text to the video slide or do it as Jill suggested which is a bit more convoluted in the end, but works just as well.

Yes, it would be nice to be able to expand the "view" to facilitate placement of keframes visually without having to do work-arounds..... Maybe in a later version.... Put it into the forum in the suggestion thread...

Best regards,

Lin

=====================

Lin,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I understand it now. My problem was that I have always started any text right at the beginning of the slide...so my brain was not getting the concept that you explained. I wanted it to start right at the beginning so it worked just fine. I never tried to put text in the middle of the slide's time as I am trying to do with my long inserted video clip.

But...you did not get to my last question. Let's say I have the first Text's keyframe set at zero opacity. Then, I set its second keyframe to be 100% opacity to make it appear. Why is it slowly fading-in between these two keyframes? I have to put them almost on top of each other to minimize the fade-in time. The only control for the length of the fade-in is how close can I get the second keyframe to sit on top of the first keyframe without causing a problem. Is this the only way to control the transition from the zero-opacity-keyframe to the 100%-opacity-keyframe, by having to put the second keyframe right up tight to the first keyframe? What if I want some other transition of the text than fade-in?

If this is true (having to put the 100% opacity keyframe right up next to the 0% opacity keyframe to reduce the fade-in), then we need to be able to expand/contract the O&A's play-line as we can do in the Timeline, using the shift-mouse wheel. With a long video (I am working with a single 35 minute video), the O&A's play-line is too compressed to make these fine adjustments or placements of the keyframes. When you are working with a 'normal' slideshow and the single image stays on for maybe 4-8 seconds, you have more 'room' to make these adjustments along the play-line.

Same problem holds for the last two keyframe when you are trying to make the Text disappear.

After all of this, I think my main points are that we need a way to 'expand' the play-line to help placement of the keyframes when you have a very long video for 35 minutes or if you even have a single image on for 35 minutes, for example. And, is there a way to not have the Text fade-in and fade-out in the beginning and in the end of the Text's keyframes? Not that it is bad, but I'd like more control or possible transitions available for the appearance and disappearance of the Text.

Or am I missing something here?

Gary

[fh1805]

In your situation, where you have a very long duration represented in the O&A timeline, you need to use the "Key frame time" box in the Animation tab to set your time intervals. For text and other visual effects you do not normally need an accuarcy better then, say, a quarter second. Whatever number you key in, I think you will find that PTE will adjust it to align it to a frame boundary in your video. So, if for example, you enter a time in that box of 3000 (three thousand milliseconds or 3 seconds along the timeline for this slide) that might actually appear as 2918 or 3046 or similar, which will be the nearest video frame boundary.

Hope this helps bring your knowledge along a touch more.

Peter

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

I think you missed it. That's essentially what the entire explanation was about.....

Yes, it would be nice to be able to expand the "view" to facilitate placement of keframes visually without having to do work-arounds..... Maybe in a later version.... Put it into the forum in the suggestion thread...

Best regards,

Lin

===========================

Lin,

No, I don't think I missed it at all. I understand all of what you are saying. My only point now is that it would be very helpful to be able to expand the O&A's play-line as we can in the Timeline. That would help to see and to place the keyframes more easily. Give it a try. Make one of the slides to be 35 minutes long. Put in a Text box to fade-in and to fade-out. The keyframes sit on top of each other in such a compressed state, it is difficult to work with them. I will put the suggestion in the Suggestion Forum.

And thanks again for for your detailed explanation.

Gary

[goddi]

In your situation, where you have a very long duration represented in the O&A timeline, you need to use the "Key frame time" box in the Animation tab to set your time intervals. For text and other visual effects you do not normally need an accuarcy better then, say, a quarter second. Whatever number you key in, I think you will find that PTE will adjust it to align it to a frame boundary in your video. So, if for example, you enter a time in that box of 3000 (three thousand milliseconds or 3 seconds along the timeline for this slide) that might actually appear as 2918 or 3046 or similar, which will be the nearest video frame boundary.

Hope this helps bring your knowledge along a touch more.

Peter

=======================

Peter,

Yes, I have seen that the Key Frame Time box is a way of dealing with setting/adjusting keyframes in slide with a very long duration. I mentioned that in one of my previous posts above. But, it would be much easier to be able to expand the O&A's play-line (as we can in the Timeline) to get it close, and maybe use the Key Frame Time box to nudge it. When you have a very long duration slide, the keyframes practically can sit right on top of each other and it is difficult to deal with. Putting just one Text in the middle of a long duration slide will have at least 4 keyframes sitting on top of each other. Very hard to deal with.

It's been a good discussion and I have learned some new things.

Gary