Several ideas/suggestions....

[goddi]

Suggestions for improvements:

1-Autosave Notice. I was playing around with a slideshow, experimenting with various different menu items. I didn't want to actually save anything. I was just testing different menu items to see what would happen. After a long session I closed the slideshow (without saving). I noticed that some of the last changes, in fact, had been saved to the slideshow. It was fortunate that I did not make too many drastic changes and I was able to get the slideshow back to its original state.

I had forgotten that the Autosave had been selected in the Settings/Preferences menu. My suggestion is that, when the Autosave has been selected, a notification warning will pop up in the main screen, perhaps to the left of the Comment window. It can be very dangerous to forget the Autosave has been selected if you make changes that you don't really want to save. A notification in the main screen might help to avoid a potential problem.

2- Relative Keyframes. I have noticed that keyframes do not adjust in a relative fashion when the slide's duration is changed. When a slide's duration is changed, the keyframes remain in their absolute positions. I suggest that there be a way, when you increase or decrease the duration of a slide or group of slides, that the keyframes will adjust in a relative way to the total change. This would be helpful, for example, when you need to increase/decrease the duration of a group of the slides to match up with the audio's length. Currently, if you increase/decrease the duration of a group of slides, you have to go back into each slide that has multiple keyframes and readjust them. If we could have the choice to have the keyframes readjust relative to the increase/decrease in a change in the slides' duration, it would help to maintain the keyframes' relative positions.

3- Latch audio files in Timeline. It would be helpful to have the ability to temporarily latch adjacent audio files together. This would allow the shifting of a group of audio files together, without disrupting any crossfading you have already carefully set. Using the Ctrl key to select the audio files would be intuitive.

4- Latch keyframes together. It would be helpful to have the ability to temporarily latch adjacent keyframes together. This would allow the shifting of a group of keyframes without losing their relative positions. Using the Ctrl key to select the keyframes would be intuitive.

5- Allow the expansion of the O&A's keyframe timeline. It would be very helpful to be able to expand the O&A's keyframe timeline when you are working with multiple keyframes that are very close together, similar to how the Timeline can be expanded.

Gary

[davegee]

DG

[goddi]

http://www.picturest...lute-keyframes/

DG

=========================

Dave,

That is pretty funny. It looks like my brain is not as fast as yours! After re-reading your post, I now remember reading it back then. But it did not dawn on me what you were referring to. I guess I had to come to the same conclusion on my own. But we are on the same page on this. />

What about my other ideas?

Thanks... Gary

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

A couple things you may want to explore.

Keyframes can have either relative or absolute positions now. On the "customize slide" "Main" tab, check beside "Scale Keyframes in Objects".

You can do "part" of what you are asking in terms of moving keyframes together. If you press CTRL E you can move "all" keyframes simultaneously in either direction by the amount you enter into the value.

Lin

]

[davegee]

Hi Lin,

Does your workaround allow for Clicking on a single "Absolute" keyframe and dragging it and "x" number of "Relative" keyframes all at the same time and by the same amount?

DG

P.S. Absolute and Relative are my terminology - they could be called Master and Slave.

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

A couple things you may want to explore.

Keyframes can have either relative or absolute positions now. On the "customize slide" "Main" tab, check beside "Scale Keyframes in Objects".

You can do "part" of what you are asking in terms of moving keyframes together. If you press CTRL E you can move "all" keyframes simultaneously in either direction by the amount you enter into the value.

Lin

===========================

Lin,

Thanks for pointing out these menu items. I did not understand what they did so I had not fooled with them. They kind of work to a certain point but not in a way that I would like them to work. The 'Scale Keyframes' only works image by image. It does not work if you want to adjust the duration of the entire slideshow and have all the keyframes in every slide to be 'scaled' when the duration is changed. It would be nice if it also worked in the Project Options/Main/Timing menu.

I had not notice the Ctrl E choice. It is OK but wouldn't it be nicer to be able to highlight the keyframes you want to move as a group and then just drag them to where you want them to be.

There is so much to understand in the PTE menus that just does not pop out right away. I think one of the best improvements that Igor can make is to put 'mouseovers' on most every menu item to explain what it really means and what it really does. It is obvious once you know; not so when you don't.

I took a look at the User Guide for 'Scale Keyframes'. Now that I have a better understanding of what it does, I don't think the example in the Guide is correct (?). See attached.

Thanks for the help.

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Hi Dave,

It's not a workaround - just pointing out that we can move "all" keyframes in either direction by a specified amount of time with the Ctrl E feature and that when we change the display time for a slide we have the choice of leaving keyframes in their "absolute" position or moving them relative to the time change. The way I read Gary's message it seemed that he wasn't aware of these features.

It would be ideal to have a "master/slave" type control by selective click and perhaps in a later version Igor may find a way to do this.

Best regards,

Lin

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

If you set up a test like this: Set display time to 8 seconds and put a keyframe at four seconds. Now leave the option unchecked and change the display time to 16 seconds. The keyframe stays at four seconds. Change the display time back to 8 seconds and the keyframe remains fixed at four seconds.

Now check the option and change the display from 8 seconds to 16 seconds. The keyframe now goes to 8 seconds. So the "relative" position is maintained. I haven't done extensive tests to see what happens with multiple keyframes but you could try to place one keyframe at two seconds and one at four and see if the result is four and eight. This would be how I suppose it "should" work with the option checked.

Yes, there is no "global" change option. It's just slide by slide; that is, if one changes the gobal option for display times on slides the individual settings per slide do not (I think) respond to the option for scale keyframes. There is always room for improvements.

Best regards,

Lin

===========================

Lin,

Thanks for pointing out these menu items. I did not understand what they did so I had not fooled with them. They kind of work to a certain point but not in a way that I would like them to work. The 'Scale Keyframes' only works image by image. It does not work if you want to adjust the duration of the entire slideshow and have all the keyframes in every slide to be 'scaled' when the duration is changed. It would be nice if it also worked in the Project Options/Main/Timing menu.

I had not notice the Ctrl E choice. It is OK but wouldn't it be nicer to be able to highlight the keyframes you want to move as a group and then just drag them to where you want them to be.

There is so much to understand in the PTE menus that just does not pop out right away. I think one of the best improvements that Igor can make is to put 'mouseovers' on most every menu item to explain what it really means and what it really does. It is obvious once you know; not so when you don't.

I took a look at the User Guide for 'Scale Keyframes'. Now that I have a better understanding of what it does, I don't think the example in the Guide is correct (?). See attached.

Thanks for the help.

Gary

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

If you set up a test like this: Set display time to 8 seconds and put a keyframe at four seconds. Now leave the option unchecked and change the display time to 16 seconds. The keyframe stays at four seconds. Change the display time back to 8 seconds and the keyframe remains fixed at four seconds.

Now check the option and change the display from 8 seconds to 16 seconds. The keyframe now goes to 8 seconds. So the "relative" position is maintained. I haven't done extensive tests to see what happens with multiple keyframes but you could try to place one keyframe at two seconds and one at four and see if the result is four and eight. This would be how I suppose it "should" work with the option checked.

Yes, there is no "global" change option. It's just slide by slide; that is, if one changes the gobal option for display times on slides the individual settings per slide do not (I think) respond to the option for scale keyframes. There is always room for improvements.

Best regards,

Lin

=================================

Lin,

I have been playing around with this Scaling. I see it does change the relationships of the Keyframes in a relative way, but the results are not exactly what I expect. I tried your example of putting in a Keyframe at 0:0, 2:0 and 4:0 for a slide with a duration of 8 seconds. Then, I changed the duration to 16, with the 'Scale' on. The results did not produce the expected exact timings of 0:0, 4:0 and 8:0. I got 0:0, 3.684 and 7:368. Close but not as expected. See attached. Maybe it has to do with the transition times, but I really don't know why.

So do you agree that the User Guide is incorrect?

Gary

[davegee]

Hi Lin,

I'm fully aware of what's available and I suggested something a little different back in September of last year having encountered a set of circumstances for which the present arrangements are cumbersome.

The Master / Slave arrangement would allow for movement of a "block" of Keyframes by clicking on the Master Keyframe and dragging one way or the other moving both the Master and all slaves at the same time by the same amount. This facility is not presently offered?

So with regard to my suggestion the method that you offered most definitely IS a workaround? (IMHO & from my perspective).B)/>

DG

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

I get 4 and 8 on my Win XT system so maybe it would be worth mentioning to Igor that your results are not the same. It could be something unique to your OS, etc., and I'm sure he would want to know. I think that perhaps there is something not quite right going on with your OS or system. I think the user guide is correct, but your results are not as intended. We need more users to try this and report results.

Best regards,

Lin

=================================

Lin,

I have been playing around with this Scaling. I see it does change the relationships of the Keyframes in a relative way, but the results are not exactly what I expect. I tried your example of putting in a Keyframe at 0:0, 2:0 and 4:0 for a slide with a duration of 8 seconds. Then, I changed the duration to 16, with the 'Scale' on. The results did not produce the expected exact timings of 0:0, 4:0 and 8:0. I got 0:0, 3.684 and 7:368. Close but not as expected. See attached. Maybe it has to do with the transition times, but I really don't know why.

So do you agree that the User Guide is incorrect?

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Hi Dave,

Since it only moves "all keyframes" (I think) it isn't much good for specific groups. I like your idea and I remember when you suggested it... I believe that there is lots of room for improvements. For example, Erik suggested that I turn on individual screens one at a time on my last Video Room animation. I thought about it and realized what a "huge" job it would be to keyframe this sequence for 128 separate display screens. I was considering programming it in Excel sort of like JPD used to do and then thought of how easy it would be if there were a feature which one could set to increment a single program setting for a selected object by a specified amount and apply to all selected objects. For example, say I set two keyframes on an object to turn on opacity. Opacity begins at zero then in say .02 second goes to 100%. Then I select multiple objects and in the order selected, apply the same two keyframes but increment the start times by .04 seconds with each object adding .04 to the start point while maintaining the .02 off/on value. But then I realized how very few times it would probably be used and how complex it would be to program it and thought it probably has no place in a presentation slideshow product - LOL. It reminded me of how really advanced JPD's reasoning was years ago. I'm not certain I could even get it right if I tried to implement this using Excel. I might try it with a greatly simplified version with say only four objects and see how it might work.

I know some of the French users such as Jean Cyprien use this method developed by JPD quite effectively. There have been some major steps made by a few of their forum members toward doing some amazing things such as a program which modifies your PTE file to allow following a bezier curve. PTE has the engine to allow some incredible animations but the interface has not yet caught up to the power of the program. I remember when JPD did a couple things which Igor said he didn't know PTE could do! I'm still scratching my head over some of Jean Cyprien's amazing feats with PTE as I did when JPD kept coming up with perplexing solutions.

It's all fun isn't it?

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin,

I'm fully aware of what's available and I suggested something a little different back in September of last year having encountered a set of circumstances for which the present arrangements are cumbersome.

The Master / Slave arrangement would allow for movement of a "block" of Keyframes by clicking on the Master Keyframe and dragging one way or the other moving both the Master and all slaves at the same time by the same amount. This facility is not presently offered?

So with regard to my suggestion the method that you offered most definitely IS a workaround? (IMHO & from my perspective)./>

DG

[davegee]

Fun?

Sure is!!

I have concentrated recently on dispensing with the need (or desire) to use Masks.

There are, of course, times when the mask will always be needed but there also times when I have used the mask as a first preference and whilst my "new" desktop will handle everything thrown at it the same project almost refuses to run on a lesser machine.

So, no more masks unless there is absolutely no other way!!

Anyway, back to the discussion arising out of Gary's suggestion.....

DG

[Lin Evans]

Hi David,

I agree about masks for EXE output, but once the project is converted to video, the use of extensive masks is immaterial to the system being played on. For example, I've created test projects using over 100 masks with which my XP system with a decent video card struggled to work with as an executable or even in preview. However, once exported as a video, it would play on the most pitiful systems without a hitch.

So, with the exception of regular conventional slideshows, I'm converting "most" of mine to video for display and demonstration purposes.

Best regards,

Lin

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

I get 4 and 8 on my Win XT system so maybe it would be worth mentioning to Igor that your results are not the same. It could be something unique to your OS, etc., and I'm sure he would want to know. I think that perhaps there is something not quite right going on with your OS or system. I think the user guide is correct, but your results are not as intended. We need more users to try this and report results.

Best regards,

Lin

=======================

Lin,

Interesting that we get different results. I am using Win7Pro/32bit.

The text in the Users Guide, I agree, is correct, but the examples they show don't seem to be correct. How can the duration times be the same before and after the Scale, as show in the attached screenshots in my previous posting? What am I missing???

Gary

[nobeefstu]

Gary,

Interesting that we get different results.

Theres a small oversight in your initial testing. Adding 8 sec to your Full Duration value of 9.5 sec (your pic 1) results in 17.5 sec (your pic 2).Your expected results (4.00 and 8.00) would be obtained if you doubled the Full Duration value of 9.5 sec to 19.sec. See attachment.

* To view/see the Full Duration value included within the Customize Slide | Slide Duration window ... make sure you have enabled the option Keep Full Slide Duration in Preferences. Otherwise it will just display the Slide Duration value without the transition value which seems to be what caused your difference. Make sure you reference the Full Duration value at the bottom of the status bar.

[goddi]

Gary,

Theres a small oversight in your initial testing. Adding 8 sec to your Full Duration value of 9.5 sec (your pic 1) results in 17.5 sec (your pic 2).Your expected results (4.00 and 8.00) would be obtained if you doubled the Full Duration value of 9.5 sec to 19.sec. See attachment.

* To view/see the Full Duration value included within the Customize Slide | Slide Duration window ... make sure you have enabled the option Keep Full Slide Duration in Preferences. Otherwise it will just display the Slide Duration value without the transition value which seems to be what caused your difference. Make sure you reference the Full Duration value at the bottom of the status bar.

=======================

Nobeefstu,

I see, said the blind man! Ok...there is a good reason for the different results. Thanks for clarifying the question. In an effort to fully understand what KFSD means, does it only just SHOW the Full Slide Duration (adding in the transition times)...it doesnt' really change any settings for the slide durations?

Gary

[davegee]

Gary, Stu,

There is something not quite right here.

Try some tests with KFSD off and Keyframes contained within the Slide Duration i.e. not overlapping into the incoming transition time.

The results cannot be right??

DG

[davegee]

The complication in understanding what is happening is compounded by the fact that Gary has (apparently) set a keyframe outside of the Slide Duration in a Non-KFSD mode project.

Gary please correct me if I'm wrong?

The test I refered to above:

Non-KFSD Mode; Slide Duration 8 secs; Keyframes at Zero and 8 Seconds.

When changing the Slide Duration to 16 seconds with Scale Keyframes Ticked I would expect that the second Keyframe be placed at 16 seconds in the same physical position at the beginning of the incoming transition (because I am in Non KFSD Mode). This, to me would be logical.

However, it appears to me that when Scale Keyframes is selected the calculation is made on the basis of KFSD being set.

Surely this is Logically wrong and the basis of the calculation should take into account KFSD or Non-KFSD?

For example the 8 second keyframe in the above example would be 100% of the slide duration based on Non-KFSD before and after the Slide Duration change.

Take a similar example with KFSD set to ON.

KFSD Mode; Slide Duration 10 seconds; Keyframes at zero and 8 seconds.

After a change of Slide Duration to 16 seconds the last Keyframe is now set to 16 seconds - the END of the incoming transition.

Stu is correct that when Scale Key Frames is used the last Key Frame is always set to 100% of FSD and the others scaled to suit.

However I don't see this as being Logical - KFSD or Non-KFSD should be taken into account.

DG

[nobeefstu]

Dave,

I believe if you turn off all Transitions in a test ... you will see a better understanding/difference of the time duration values displayed in the various settings/modes.

* I just got up and on my first coffee ... need more time to read your details.

[davegee]

Hi Stu,

Not arguing with your findings.

Just wondering if the results SHOULD be different depending on the KFSD setting?

DG

[davegee]

Dave,

I believe if you turn off all Transitions in a test ... you will see a better understanding/difference of the time duration values displayed in the various settings/modes.

* I just got up and on my first coffee ... need more time to read your details.

Agreed, but I am only looking at the LAST Key Frame and it matters not if KFSD is set or not for that KF.

It will always be at the end.

If you introduce a transition then the results differ according to the KFSD setting and where the Last KF is placed.

DG

[nobeefstu]

Dave,

All Key Frame calculations are relative to the Full Duration value (bottom status bar) which includes the combined Slide duration and Transition duratiion values. The Full Duration value (bottom status bar) is the same whether you are in KFSD or Non-KFSD

KFSD mode displays the combined Slide duration and Transition duratiion values when in Customize Slide | Slide Duration. This is the Full Duration value of the Slide which also is seen in the bottom staus bar.

With Non-KFSD when in Customize Slide window you are only able to see the Slide Duration and then must mentally calculate to include the Transition duratiion to realize the Full Duration value of the Slide to correctly achieve adjustments. The Full Duration value is still available in the bottom staus bar even when in Non-KFSD.

This is another reason why Igor suggests users set KFSD because it visually displays the full values without having to do all the math.

[goddi]

The complication in understanding what is happening is compounded by the fact that Gary has (apparently) set a keyframe outside of the Slide Duration in a Non-KFSD mode project....

Gary please correct me if I'm wrong?...

DG

==========================

Dave,

I have been trying several ways; the last keyframe not in the ending transition zone; the last keyframe in the ending transition zone; and with and without KFSD clicked.

Since I am not sure what the proper results should be, I think I can say that when the keyframe is within the ending transition zone, the results are confusing. Sometimes the keyframe is sent to the end of the transition zone; sometimes not. I can not explain what I am seeing but there seems to be something not consistent when the keyframe is within the ending transition zone and KFSD is applied with Scaled.

Gary

[davegee]

Hi Stu,

I thought that I was the only one using KFSD exclusively and have been doing so since it was firtst introduced.

I totally agree with you on what we are seeing with the Scale Key Frames and KFSD. That is not the confusion and I understand exactly the math involved.

What I am not sure about is the apparent confusion which might be caused when Scale Key Frames is used in a Non-KFSD Mode?

Is the relationship between Scale Key Frames and FSD the only option? Should there be a different option when Scale Key Frames is used in a Non-KFSD Mode?

My thinking is that 100% (time) should be different for the two modes.

It is bound to be confusing to have a Key Frame set at the beginning of the incoming transition (Slide Duration) in Non-KFSD suddenly jump to the END of the incoming transition when an adjustment is made to the time and Scale Key Frames is ticked?

The difficulty for Igor is sure to be how to handle Key Frames which are set to e.g. 120% of Slide Duration in Non KFSD Mode.

I can see both sides of the argument but my gut feeling is that a Key Frame placed at 100% of Slide Duration in Non-KFSD should be at 100% of Slide Duration after a time adjustment with Scale Key Frames Ticked.

A difficult one?

If you want graphical representation of what I am talking about I can do that.

DG