Future Proofing Work

[kgoreilly]

I bought my first tablet before Christmas, and it occurred to me that it's just possible that one day Windows may not be around anymore.

Then, I began to think of all the years work I've done using Picturestoexe. Holy S**t -will I even be able to play it at all?

My sole motivation for using it in the first place was quality, so outputting everything to video is NOT an option. I know Mac output is now possible too, but let's think 50 years from now.

I have made ZIP backups of all projects, and I suppose keeping a copy of the software would do no harm. And, I know the problem applies to all formats, but I think I might have been better off working in Video software from the start.

I'd love to some reassurance.........

[Lin Evans]

Let's look at some of your assumptions:

1. You created Zip backups - what makes you think "Zip" will be around in 50 years?

2. You discuss "video" - are you sure video will be a viable modality in 50 years?

3. Why would one assume that just because Windows might not be around in 50 years that the product (PTE) won't successfully "migrate" to the next operating system?

I've been around personal computers since they were invented. In 1982 I wrote a data management software package in CPM. I later ported it to PC DOS. I still use it today, 31 years later, running in DOS mode under Windows. There is just a strong a probability that Windows or some derivative thereof will be around in 50 years as there is that Apple or some derivative of their present OS will be around in 50 years.

The probability is less that video, as we now know it, will exist in the same way in 50 years. I strongly suspect that what we will have in 50 years is a form of holographic projection rather than the simple video in 2D or even 3D which we experience today.

Had you gone immediately to some form of "video" editing software, you "could" do some, if not most of what you do today with PTE, but it would be "much" more difficult. Good video software will let you make a simple slideshow with transitions, text, pan, zoom, rotate and even in some cases 3D transformations. On the other hand literally "all" of these are much easier to do effectively with PTE. PTE is a "presentation" tool which can do some editing. Video editors are editing tools which can do some presentation. Some tools such as Adobe After Effects when coupled with Premier Pro and perhaps other portions of the Adobe Creative Suite, can effectively replace PTE. But at what cost and with how much effort, training and time?

So your question of would I have been better off working with video in the first place is one only you can answer. There is certainly no reason why you can't work in both PTE and in Video. I do. But, I can tell you with certainty that one can easily do things with PTE which are difficult if not impossible with even the best video editors. There is definitely a place for both.

What will the future bring? We can't say with certainty. About the only thing we can say is that there will be change - lots of it. The technology curve is very steep and there will be myriad things tomorrow we can only dream of today. There is no way with certainty that we can predict the direction, but we can do the best with what we have to work with and hope that our choices help us assimilate into the future....

Best regards,

Lin

[kgoreilly]

A few things.

I'm not at all worried about the 'existence' of the files in the future. I think that can be covered by approaches like the 123 rule. And, I accept that video throws up the same issues, although I'd have more confidence in the long term viability of an AVI file than a PTE file, because Wnsoft is such a niche product.

I am worried about the playability of the files. This is already an issue for me on my Macbook. It's an old one (I think OS X 10.5.8). The shows play but with the occasional glitches. I primarily work in a Windows environment, so it's no big deal. But this shows what could happen in the future.

I know I could save a copy of Windows, and the PTE software, and there would be 'emulation' options available for sure, but could there be hardware differences which make it impossible to successfully play the PTE files in the future. Especially video card differences -if PTE accesses the video card directly is it not very dependent on the video card hardware specification (I'm probably showing my ignorance here).

I'm not attempting here to exaggerate the risks, because I'd guess they're low enough, but I'm talking as someone who has spent very very considerable amounts of time over the past eight years making their work in this format. A small risk, but with huge (potentially catastrophic) consequences.

I long ago concluded that PTE was much better to use than say Premiere Pro which I also use for certain jobs. And I've never managed to get better output than what I see from the PTE executable, so I need no persuading there. My point is solely about the long term playability of work.

[Ken Cox]

see

http://www.archives.gov/preservation/family-archives/preserving-family-papers.html

http://www.infomanagementcenter.com/enewsletter/200704/fourth.htm

from what i have been told, government libraries have copied all documents etc with the latest technology and update the copies with the new as it comes along -- they do not like to fool with originals

how many 8 track tapes were never copied and now you cant afford to replace them with vinyl or cd's etc )))))))))))

ref 8 track

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadraphonic_sound

when you are in a home sitting in a rocker you might say

i am EXHAUSTIPATED ))))

ken

[kgoreilly]

how many 8 track tapes were never copied and now you cant afford to replace them with vinyl or cd's etc )))))))))))

Well that's my point. You would need an 8-Track machine to play it. So, just how hardware dependent are the PTE files? And if hardware built around Windows gives way to hardware built around something else, what then?

when you are in a home sitting in a rocker you might say

i am EXHAUSTIPATED ))))

ken

You're joking......but, I'd be heart broken.

[fh1805]

Looked at coldly and rationally, "digital" is not an archival medium. It is no good ensuring that you have layer upon layer of "backup copies" of the data in a multitude of file formats. You must also "Archive" and "Backup" the software, and also the hardware technology on which the software runs. You must then, periodically, bring that hardware up to operating state and confirm that everything is still working. You must then periodically access each and every item of data to ensure that no "digital decay" has set in.

Our Victorian ancestors, working on glass plates, paper and celluloid, have left us a wonderful legacy that, 110-170 years later, brings their era to life for today's generations. I strongly suspect that future generations (50-100 years down the road) will find only a damned great gaping hole in the archives when they look back to the late-20th and early-21st centuries. Even if the data is intact, the technology to view it probably will not be.

We must accept that we live in a society that is obsessed with the "here and now" and has no thought for the long-term future.

regards,

Peter

[kgoreilly]

Looked at coldly and rationally, "digital" is not an archival medium. It is no good ensuring that you have layer upon layer of "backup copies" of the data in a multitude of file formats. You must also "Archive" and "Backup" the software, and also the hardware technology on which the software runs. You must then, periodically, bring that hardware up to operating state and confirm that everything is still working. You must then periodically access each and every item of data to ensure that no "digital decay" has set in.

I think you've stated it very well there.

But, it still leaves me wondering about the precise nature of the risk with PTE files. Would it just take Wnsoft going out of business, and a new generation of video cards, to make life very difficult for us all?

[fh1805]

In any field of enterprise, if a supplier upon whom you depend goes out of business you have a potentially major problem. If no other supplier can fill the gap then you, too, are probably heading to extinction. If technology changes and your existing supplier fails to respond - again, you have a major problem. Both those scenarios are outside the control of the user. So there is little point in wasting nervous energy worrying about "what if".

regards,

Peter

[Ken Cox]

backup everything possible and put in a safe and dont forget the combination -- have it tattooed on your arm that you dont write with

pray that this doesn't come true

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2012/12/world-fails-to-end-after-mayan-calendar-runs-out.html

ken

[kgoreilly]

That's interesting I must check it out. Do you recommend creating an image of my machine from time to time? Or, should I just assume I would be able to get an image of a current machine in the future?

It also occurred to me that I still use a CRT monitor, as the back lighting in flat screens ruins many of my very dark shows. The blacks just aren't black. I'm hoping OLED screens solve that particular problem.

[Ken Cox]

SEE

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/oled5.htm

KEN

[davegee]

I have sort of followed this thread from the beginning and wondered if there might be a flaw in the thinking?

A program I watched this morning (Click) sort of indicated that 4K might not be as close as some suggest and that the 120fps Video required is not yet freely available to us.

Now the OP spoke of 50 years in the future by which time we might be talking about upwards of 64-128K screens and upwards of 240-480fps video.

I'm thinking that even our 36Mp RAW files ain't going to be good enough for that!!

The best way to future proof (perhaps) might be to keep all original files and rebuild in 50 years time with the technology available then. That's assuming that RAW conversion will be the same in 50 years time.

Who knows, the camera manufacturers might all get together and come up with one single RAW format that they can all use. Maybe DR will have improved (64 stops) as well?

And before someone mentions DNG, please don't?

Judging by the rate that digital photography (and video) has progressed in the last 20 years what will 50 years in the future bring? Will our 2013 files look the same in 2063 as our 1963 grainy B+Ws look to us now?

50 years ago we were only just updating our music systems to this new-fangled Stereo LP. Look where we are now (LP > Cassette tapes > Mini Discs > DAT Tapes > CDs > Digital Downloads) - where will that be in 50 years time?

One step at a time and try to keep up!

DG

[crossfade]

A few things.

I'm not at all worried about the 'existence' of the files in the future. I think that can be covered by approaches like the 123 rule. And, I accept that video throws up the same issues, although I'd have more confidence in the long term viability of an AVI file than a PTE file, because Wnsoft is such a niche product.

I am worried about the playability of the files. This is already an issue for me on my Macbook. It's an old one (I think OS X 10.5.8). The shows play but with the occasional glitches. I primarily work in a Windows environment, so it's no big deal. But this shows what could happen in the future.

I know I could save a copy of Windows, and the PTE software, and there would be 'emulation' options available for sure, but could there be hardware differences which make it impossible to successfully play the PTE files in the future. Especially video card differences -if PTE accesses the video card directly is it not very dependent on the video card hardware specification (I'm probably showing my ignorance here).

I'm not attempting here to exaggerate the risks, because I'd guess they're low enough, but I'm talking as someone who has spent very very considerable amounts of time over the past eight years making their work in this format. A small risk, but with huge (potentially catastrophic) consequences.

I long ago concluded that PTE was much better to use than say Premiere Pro which I also use for certain jobs. And I've never managed to get better output than what I see from the PTE executable, so I need no persuading there. My point is solely about the long term playability of work.

You're very wise to be worried and it won't take anywhere near 50 years. Things are starting to change now.

PTE shows wont play on Windows RT, iPads or Android tablets, other than by exporting a video. Tablets are the next big thing.

[kgoreilly]

The best way to future proof (perhaps) might be to keep all original files and rebuild in 50 years time with the technology available then. That's assuming that RAW conversion will be the same in 50 years time.

Yes, just as a very small point, I think it would be helpful if PTE could export a text file detailing the sequence of slides, timings, transitions, audio, zoom levels of video.....in fact the whole shebang. This would help in the rebuilding, and would be used in tandem with the zipped backup.

[fh1805]

Your PTE project file (the .pte file) is a text file that can be edited with any text editor.

Peter

[Ken Cox]

PETER

am surprised he didn't know that - after all he has been a member since 2006

I think he is pulling our chain and best to ignore his remarks :rolleyes:/>

ken

[deskjet1uk]

PETER

am surprised he didn't know that - after all he has been a member since 2006

I think he is pulling our chain and best to ignore his remarks :rolleyes:/>/>

ken

I agree with Ken on this and have done from the start and have had emails from others who think the same.

ralph