The Third Image

[The Image Suite]

Hi all

Are modern transitions killing the third image?

I should be interested to learn of member's views in respect of whether or not digital software is killing the use of the third image. I have viewed a number of presentations on this site, and elsewhere and apart from a handful of people, (whom I imagine may have been converts from the slide projector days), the use of third image appears to have gone into decline - or is it just hibernation?

Please let me know what you think............

The Image Suite

[ronwil]

From my observation of the forum I have formed an opinion, right or wrong, that the majority of members in this part of the world are converts from AV using twin projectors and will endeavour to improve on what was possible with that system including the third image. Whereas in other parts of the world, particularly the USA a number of members appear to be professional wedding etc photographers seeking better ways of presenting their "proofs" to their clients but which would not include the third image.

Ron [uK]

[The Image Suite]

Hi Ron

Interesting comments........you may well be right..........I wonder what our US friends have to say about that? I don't see any reason why a pro photographer (even one's doing weddings) can't use the third image though! As you say, perhaps its just an electronic album set to music used for commerical purposes...........

I would go further though to suggest that the new enthusiasts perhaps haven't heard of the third image - or am I just being controversial ?

Thanks for your input

The Image Suite

[LumenLux]

Ok, I'll speak of one opinion from a US user of PTE.

I think there are many US users who enjoy photography mainly as a hobby - a creative outlet. Not normally commercial. The AV thrust of our UK friends is not so wide here - at least to my knowledge.

Thirty years ago I tried a little sync work with reel-to-reel, but it got away from me because of so many other worthy demands on my time. Sure there are camera clubs here, and probably some AV, multi-projector groups. There have been professional shows toured by Kodak, etc. But I think few of us have the AV background that I now appreciate in the contributions here from the UK background.

Third Image, as a name, came first to me in this forum. I deduced some idea of the concept. I have enjoyed those shows where I think the concept/method has been very knowingly used. But, I think I, and many others would probably welcome some elaboration here from those who do know and concsciously use the technigue. How about it?

[The Image Suite]

Hi LumenLux

Thank you for your contribution.......very interesting. The great thing about audio-visual and particularly with the changes in technology and skill levels etc, is that we never stop learning and these forums are great for keeping up with the old and the new......

Re elaboration - this is my explanation of the 'third image' - I am sure that others will have their own opinons and views...............

In the world of the traditional audio-visual shows using twin projectors, it is possible, during the dissolving of the slides to create a third image. This generally occurs when the intensity of both lamps in the projectors reaches a certain point and more often than not, the dissolves are approx half way through – one slide entering and one slides leaving. It was always the AV developer's ambitions to get good quality ‘third images’ in to the show, and this is no mean feat! It seems to me that with many of the ‘transitions’ in digital audio-visuals, this ’third image’ effect is being lost or forgotten, assuming the developer knew of its existence in the first place. Experiment with a few slides and extend your transition times say to 15 or 20 seconds for each slide on a standard fade/dissolve and you will start to see what I mean…………it doesn't suit all images so you have to be very selective when choosing the images for this type of scenario.......

The Image Suite

[verhoef]

I tried a transition of 20 seconds, and understand what you mean by the third image...

I think it would be nice to do a half transition to the 2nd slide and than return to the first.

Is that possible within PTE or do you have to create a blending mode first in photoshop in the second slide ?

Michel Verhoef

[ronwil]

I create my third images in Photoshop using two images as background and layer respectively. I use the eraser tool in a dark area on the layer to expose the third image from the background and save. You then have three images to arrange and fade in or out as you will.

Ron [uK]

[The Image Suite]

Michel

I am not sure if you can achieve a half transition, but as an alternative you could try reducing the opacity of the slide in photoshop and then returning to the first slide....experiment with the opacity of the images on a blended basis or as Ron says, you could cheat a bit and sandwich two slides together to create the third image.

Ron

Yes it can be done that way very successfully, but I find it more challenging trying to create the third image with only two images.........each to their own

Thanks for your comments gentlemen

The Image Suite

[LumenLux]

Thanks everybody for the info. Do you, Ron annd Image Suite have some examples that you like that we could link into view?

[The Image Suite]

Hi LumenLux

Examples?.....I'll have to have a closer look through the a/vs before I'd specifically quote any to you from this site.........most of my work is highly commercial stuff, and it isn't on my client's agenda to be looking for third images! But sure, I'll let you know when I come across some............

Have fun experimenting.............

The Image Suite

[ronwil]

Sorry, all my efforts at trying to put a sequence on the Beechbrook site over the past nine months have ended in failure apart from my Intro Demo. If I get time soon I will do a sequence showing first the two basic images, then the "third" image and finally the overall effect.

Ron [uK]

[LumenLux]

Thank you both, I look forward to viewing them. And if I get a chance I will try to dig up a posted PTE show of about a year or so ago that I felt the transitions were unusually good at presenting a (natural?) "third image."

[The Image Suite]

Hi LumenLux

That would be good......I'd love to see it.

The Image Suite

[The Image Suite]

Hi Ron

I see you have been busy........again! Thanks for the contributions.......most appreciated. Let's hope you get a good number of hits on your 'Third Image' sequence and it influences members to try it...........I was beginning to think that the 'art' had been lost!

Anyway..........I like the effect.

Regards

The Image Suite

[ronwil]

Hello Lumenlux

As The Image Suite has just commented, my Third Image Demo is now on Beechbrook (thank you Bill).

Ron [uK]

[Alan Lyons]

Hi All,

it bodes well for A/V when the creative side of the process generates so many replys in such a short time. As a projectors and prayers worker, I too am conserned for the well being of the third image. All these new effects are great to have in your box of tricks, but remember when you use an effect it has to be relevent to the show. Remember all those awful photographs we had to suffer when Cokin filters first hit the shelves? how many do you own and use now?

Alan

[The Image Suite]

Hi Alan

And I thought I was the only 'concerned one' amongst many av'ers most of whom were all eager to use every transition available! You guys have restored my faith!

Perhaps I can encourage the 'elevation' of the third image in my workshops....

Thanks for your input Alan, as you say, it's great that it has got people thinking if nothing else.......let's see more use of it from all the members.

Regards

The Image Suite

[The Image Suite]

Hi All

Interesting to see that out of 195 hits on this topic, we have only a small number voicing an opinion.........!

Cat got your keyboard?

[LumenLux]

Thank you Ron for the example posted on Beechbrook. It clearly illustrates the technique. Obviously there is much that could be developed that way. (With appropriate creative skill.) I suspect the whole Third Image concept takes practice, not just the physical placement of two images.

With that example being good for PhotoShop use, what goes into a carefully planned Third Image when one is limited to two pre-shot images?

[The Image Suite]

Hi LumenlLux

Re your comment about creating a third image from two pre-shot images - these are my suggestions for what you will need to consider;

1. Careful selection of the two images to be used

2. Positioning of the composition within each image and especially where the third image is going to appear - you need to avoid distraction elsewhere in the images

3. Sometimes the background - note Ron had changed the background behind the figure to suit his purposes (If I recall correctly he had darkened it?)

4. Often the colour blends in each image, particularly in the third image area - don't get caught out by a dark on dark third image

5. Timing - fade in/fade out long timings are generally the best - they give the viewer the chance to recognise the third image - which more often than not means that you can't use this quite technique so successfully in an up tempo show (perhaps you may disagree Ron?)

6. Storyboard - whilst many members on this site don't necessarily consider the use of a storyboard, and just prefer to display their photos in an audio-visual gallery (and that is not a criticism, merely an observation), a good sequence will generally tell a story or provide a message or take you on a given path, so the third image has not only to be relevent to the storyboard but can ably lead into the next part of the sequence - (I have seen some that were purely stuck into a sequence because the author felt it was a nice third image, which it was but it wasn't relevent to the rest of the sequence) - but, hey, this is only one opinion, and I am the first to accept I don't have a monopoly on this!

Have I left anything out Ron?

Hope this helps

The Image Suite

[ronwil]

You have it in a nutshell. Could that be a basis for a third image - a baby; a walnut shell open; and the baby cradled in the nutshell?

Ron [uK]

[The Image Suite]

Hi Ron

Are you asking me or making a statement?

The Image Suite

[LumenLux]

Ok friends, I have traced down the PTE show that I had referred to earlier. The show is UK, by forum member ADB (Bussty). When I first viewed the show, I thought he had done something special to create or facillitate third image effect. At the very least he makes very nice fades with carefully placed image features. It would be nice if you take a look and see what you think.

Problem is, how to get access to the show for you and others again. I still have the show, but it is about 14 MB. I have emailed Bussty to inform him of this discussion and see if he can post his show again somewhere. He does have a website - if he has space for the show, I don't know yet. (I offered to post it on my site, but I don't know how to do that yet.)

I know Ron is aware, others may be interested, Bussty also has the web page where photos are posted of a few of the members of this forum. http://www.imagescapes.co.nz/forum/forum.htm It could be fun to see a few more mugs of forum members. Bussty has always welcomed anyone - just email him an honest photo that we can all enjoy.

[The Image Suite]

Hi LumenLux

Thanks for the update. Yes, I'd be very interested to see the UK show from Bussty. I'll keep a look out for it.............I have just received one directly to my email address from a guest who has read the topic (couldn't find his name in the members list, so I assume he is a guest) - in the process of downloading it, and will review.

I shall also go off and look at the rogues gallery!

Have fun

The Image Suite

[LumenLux]

Ok folks, Bussty has uploaded his UK show to his site. Anyone interested can download and enjoy. Those that have been using Third Image or following this discussion - see what you think.

http://www.imagescapes.co.nz/UK.exe