Suggestion for new forum

[steven62]

Hello,

I was going to put this as a reply to the last thread but felt that it should have it's own thread.

I would like to suggest a new forum for beginners.

This forum would be for folks who are new to PTE, or new to slideshows in general. You see, the first time I heard of the term "keyframe" I thought it had something to do with a computerized piano.

I am just kidding. Yeah, I know humor is frowned here (I read that here somewhere) but baiting someone and adding a dozen or so smileys after it is OK. Go figure. By the way. Before you say that we have an off topic forum keep in mind that I signed up to this forum well before I bought the software. Betcha there are others besides me.

Igor, I know you removed all of the offending messages pertaining to the last thread but there is an old saying about too little too late. I saw it. How many others saw it.

It's a great idea to just tell everyone that they need to clean up after themselves but you all know it will happen again. It's human nature when someone gets their toes stepped on to strike back, not everybody walks away for a cup of coffee or tea before hitting that send button

.

So how to stop or slow it down.

Well you already have the answer here. It's just not being used. Let me continue on.

How I would visualize a beginners forum would be in addition to the above there would be a stronger moderator presence like when a couple of oldtimers begin to use all of those smileys at the end of some biting or derogatory comments the moderator would delete them right away to keep the fuse from reaching the powder keg which was allowed several times in the short amount of time that I have been here and if the moderator was involved they should have gotten another moderator to take over the thread.

I would also recruit a couple of folks who would monitor the beginners forum and understand the concept of "creative alternative" or know how to make a critique without saying "your show stinks!" or "your show is beautiful" when in fact it's not. They can take the time to tell the new person how to fix the problem areas. The may not even know there is a way to fix it. I have a couple of folks here I would nominate which should be done by PM if you decide to take my suggestion or a variation thereof.

Let me end by saying two things.

1. None of the above things have happened to me. I have been treated with respect and professionalism in any thread I started no matter how simple the question was and I thank you for that.

2. As I look over the forums for answers to problems and viewing slide shows sometime I wonder if you folks really know and understand what you have here. Don't forget, this is coming from an outsiders point of view (me), I know, I use PTE but....

In my eyes what you have here is something extraordinarily unique. PTE is truly an international piece of software. Yes, I am aware that the competition has users from other countries but not like PTE with awards from all over Europe, users from all parts of the globe, so many different cultures and languages. It is in our best interests to act like ambassadors.

Steven

[Igor]

Hello Steven,

Thank you for your idea and interesting thoughts!

Please give me some time to reply you.

Also let see what others will reply you.

P.S. My nearest plans is to publish forum rules.

[stonemason]

Personally I am not in favour of a beginner’s forum, although I have sympathy with Steven's reasons for suggesting it. I feel beginners need input from more experienced users, and I have doubts that more experienced users would visit such a forum just to answer beginner’s questions, which would result in beginners trying to help beginners. I am more in favour of Igor’s thinking of publishing forum rules and a code of conduct, but perhaps more important, ensuring it was enforced. It is sad that we even need to be discussing all this, but hopefully with it out in the open this will result in a much better and friendlier forum and a place where beginners and everyone else can enjoy their visits, and get all the help they need.

Geoff

[PGA]

It is in our best interests to act like ambassadors.

Well said, Steven! I couldn't have put it better myself.

regards,

Peter

[Barry Beckham]

Steven

I think your intentions are honourable, but I would have to vote no to your suggestion. I am not in favour of any segregation like we see in some camera clubs. This grade and that grade and it gets to a point with some that you need to be a member 2 years to understand how it all works.

The forum is OK as it is as long as those who have a different view can express them freely. That has not been the case for a while, but perhaps the latest episode will clear the air.

[steven62]

Hello,

Sorry I have not answered sooner but the last few days have been hectic for me between my part time job and a show I needed to finish.

I have completed 7 shows thus far most of them being for my wife's family so have not been able to put them up here. I think I put up 2 or 3 since getting PTE and am thankful for the tutorials that I have been able to get even though I may ask some simple questions sometimes.

I have been asked to do two more slide shows that I am not looking forward to doing but said I would. It has to do with certain customs here in the area and that's all that I am comfortable with sharing.

Onto my replies and reasons for my request.

Peter: Thank you for taking the time to let me know that you agree about us being ambassadors.

Geoff and Barry: I do not think you realize it but you made my point stronger for my request. I will put the quotes below.

Geoff Wrote:

hopefully with it out in the open this will result in a much better and friendlier forum and a place where beginners and everyone else can enjoy their visits, and get all the help they need.

Barry Wrote:

The forum is OK as it is as long as those who have a different view can express them freely. That has not been the case for a while, but perhaps the latest episode will clear the air.

Geoff: You have over 400 posts and joined in 2004, Barry. You have over 2000 posts and joined in 2003. My point here is you have both forgotten what it was like when you joined this forum.

Another point is that I will bet you dollars to donuts that the shenanigans that have been going on here lately was not around when you first joined. Right?

One more point. I joined in July 2012 which was just before I purchased PTE. I believe that I downloaded and installed it July 30,2012, a few weeks after I joined. I don't remember seeing any big problems then but I will tell you that I saw the last few blowups coming long before they happened and I know without a doubt others saw it as well.

If you honestly believe that this can or will never happen again then I will take my marbles and go home (regarding this thread). Those that were baiting and adding their little smilies at the end did not fool anyone and why the moderators did not step I guess is another story. I am sorry that I keep going back to that baiting and smiley stuff, it's just that it was so obvious to me about what was going on that I would just shake my head and get out of the thread regardless of how much good information was there concerning PTE. The fact that Igor published guideline for moderators and the addition of Ralph as a moderator will be a real help because I believe that he is sensitive enough to recognize the signs.

So now, why am I seeking a beginners forum? Well, quite simply put a safe place for new folks to go until they get their feet wet. Say about 2 or three shows where other more experienced folks would be willing to look at some of their shows and give some measurable critiques of their shows. I received a couple of great reviews that I put into practice and before you say that your points have been made I was also told that my shows would not be downloaded because the individual who made the comment only watched the best of the best (I have paraphrased their comment). I don't think this kind of thing would happen in a beginners forum because this person and others with that attitude would not want to go there.

Barry. I am not sure what you mean by grading in camera clubs. I do not belong to anything like that but I do belong to a few forums where introductions are made and the beginner is made to feel welcome, does their thing until they feel comfortable enough to move on. I am not suggesting that new members be forced to to into a beginners forum, just if they need to they can receive extra help.

I really would like to hear from some newer members to see how they feel about this.

Look folks. I have no problem admitting if I am wrong about something. Even though I am 68 I still learn something new almost every day. I have not seen enough data come in to convince me that I am wrong in this.

You know, I used to teach a class on quality and used something that I was told by another person to avoid misconceptions and arguments. I would ask the class to pull out a coin from their pocket (American coin) and show them where it said "In God We Trust" I would then tell them "All others bring data" and at this time I think we need more data before saying no. I am not saying we need a beginners forum. I am suggesting it and exploring the whys and why nots. Thank you for you inputs.

Steve

Edit:

Something I noticed after rereading my reply this morning and that is I may have given the impression that long time members should not reply. If that is the case I apologize for the miscommunication. My intention is that all give their thoughts here as each reply will give a clear vision as to having a beginners forum is viable or not.

[landsberger]

Steve

I have to agree with you and disagree with the others, I get the impression that the majority of members on the forum are "old enough to know better". Newcomers to the forum need encouragement, they may well be easily put off by the "I'm cleverer than you" responses to questions.

There are one or two members who give the impression that theirs is the only opinion/view that counts, this is totally the wrong attitude to take, it just reeks of arrogance.

As for moderation, I'm hoping that it will improve, in the past too many childish remarks which led to vicious remarks were tolerated by moderators instead of being stamped quickly. I have seen in a recent post that the smart-ass remarks and comments are creeping back and I hope that the moderators see this.

Lets be brutally honest here, for all those who think that they can walk on water, you still don't like it when someone dislikes your work and says so in a derogatory way.

It is relatively easy to deliver comment whether it is praise or criticism, in a way which should not cause offence.

Regards

John

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