PTE

[crossfade]

that includes systems that would never buy PTE or could even run it, like netbooks and corporate systems that only run corporate softwre that the IT department approves of and nothing else.

I see people with Macs all the time, much more than 9% of the time. Half of Adobe's sales are Mac.

The number to look at is not the total, but what system people who make slide shows have, not what system a lawyer or accountant uses in their offices.

No they don't. Apple does not pay for product placement.

Movies and tv shows use Macs and iphones because theyre popular and they know that many viewers have them and can relate to the characters in the show.

Your ILM link is over ten years old and Pixar's software runs on Mac, Linux and Windows and they dont make people use VMware or parallels to run it. A lot of what they do does use custom linux software, but PTE doesnt run on linux either! Not a good example.

http://renderman.pix...enderman-studio

Here's a behind the scenes tour of Pixar and there are a lot of Macs visible

http://www.nytimes.c...ar-studios.html

and Ballmer uses a Mac on stage for his presentation

http://img.gawkerass...pg/original.jpg

And the head of HP uses a Mac

http://www.electroni...ooding.own.pcs/

While you can run PTE on a Mac using VMware or parallels (its what I do), its far from ideal. There is a lot of overhead in running a second operating system just to run a windows app and its a hassle.

There was supposed to be a Mac PTE 5 years ago and it hasnt happened. I asked why but so far no answer othr than progress is slow. As far as i can tell, its not slow, its been abandoned. It doesnt take 5 years to write a program. In that same time there has been a couple of PTE windows releases.

But, that is all missing the point. The mac would not show its programs properly on the projector, though it was ok on the mac's own screen. Clearly that's a problem with its external video port software.

There is no external video port software. if you plug in a second display, whether its a projector or a monitor, you can show stuff on it. its just another screen.

the only issue is that macs have DVI or displayport and many projectors are stuck in the last century with vga, so you need an adapter, but Im sure he knew this and had the adapter.

The mac people I know make no secret about looking down on PC's. (and I'm not above enjoying the moment when their beloved mac gives them trouble!)

I see more PC users taunting mac users than the other way around, such as what you say you do.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

that includes systems that would never buy PTE or could even run it, like netbooks and corporate systems that only run corporate softwre that the IT department approves of and nothing else.

I see people with Macs all the time, much more than 9% of the time. Half of Adobe's sales are Mac.

The number to look at is not the total, but what system people who make slide shows have, not what system a lawyer or accountant uses in their offices.

No they don't. Apple does not pay for product placement.

Movies and tv shows use Macs and iphones because theyre popular and they know that many viewers have them and can relate to the characters in the show.

Your ILM link is over ten years old and Pixar's software runs on Mac, Linux and Windows and they dont make people use VMware or parallels to run it. A lot of what they do does use custom linux software, but PTE doesnt run on linux either! Not a good example.

http://renderman.pixar.com/view/renderman-studio

Here's a behind the scenes tour of Pixar and there are a lot of Macs visible

http://www.nytimes.com/video/2011/02/09/movies/1248069625002/a-rare-look-inside-pixar-studios.html

and Ballmer uses a Mac on stage for his presentation

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18s3yt2at83bijpg/original.jpg

And the head of HP uses a Mac

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/11/21/hp.chairman.found.not.dogfooding.own.pcs/

While you can run PTE on a Mac using VMware or parallels (its what I do), its far from ideal. There is a lot of overhead in running a second operating system just to run a windows app and its a hassle.

There was supposed to be a Mac PTE 5 years ago and it hasnt happened. I asked why but so far no answer othr than progress is slow. As far as i can tell, its not slow, its been abandoned. It doesnt take 5 years to write a program. In that same time there has been a couple of PTE windows releases.

There is no external video port software. if you plug in a second display, whether its a projector or a monitor, you can show stuff on it. its just another screen.

the only issue is that macs have DVI or displayport and many projectors are stuck in the last century with vga, so you need an adapter, but Im sure he knew this and had the adapter.

I see more PC users taunting mac users than the other way around, such as what you say you do.

Even better said

Yachtsman1.

[cjdnzl]

<snip>

There is no external video port software. if you plug in a second display, whether its a projector or a monitor, you can show stuff on it. its just another screen.

the only issue is that macs have DVI or displayport and many projectors are stuck in the last century with vga, so you need an adapter, but Im sure he knew this and had the adapter.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me. A projector should show just what is on the mac laptop screen, but that was not the case. The lappy screen showed the Powerpoint starting screen, while the projector - which was connected via a DVI/VGA adapter - showed a totally unrelated image. We went looking for this image and found it in a separate folder.

It was even queerer, because the laptop showed the powerpoint image in what Windows calls 'normal' mode, i.e. not maximised, with the desktop background visible behind. But the projector showed the PP start screen with this unrelated background behind, so it appears that video pages were crossed up somewhere. When the PP show started, it disappeared from the projector, but ran on the lappy.

My conclusion was that the video external port was being fed different pages than was the laptop.

I've never seen that happen with a PC, only with his late model mac - I think with a retina screen but not positive about that.

[cjdnzl]

Further to the macbook/projector problem, I have just perused Google, and found the answer.

macbooks employ a feature called 'mirroring' which allows an unmirrored computer to show a different image on the computer from that on the projector, and for the lappy and projector to show the same image the computer has to be in mirror mode.

The macbook owner clearly didn't know that, and neither did anybody else in the meeting. I would have thought that being mirrored would be the default setting, but apparently not.

Well, that's the answer, and it may be a useful capability in some situations, like having notes etc showing on the laptop, but the show presented on the projector.

[crossfade]

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me. A projector should show just what is on the mac laptop screen, but that was not the case. The lappy screen showed the Powerpoint starting screen, while the projector - which was connected via a DVI/VGA adapter - showed a totally unrelated image. We went looking for this image and found it in a separate folder.

A second monitor or projector can be in mirrored or duplicate mode, or it can be spanning or extended mode.

Mirrored is where both the laptop screen and projector show the same desktop, and spanning is where the entire desktop spans both monitors, with different content on each.

For presentations, its really helpful to have them be different, so the speaker can refer to notes or other info on the laptop screen, while the actual presentation is on the projector.

It was even queerer, because the laptop showed the powerpoint image in what Windows calls 'normal' mode, i.e. not maximised, with the desktop background visible behind. But the projector showed the PP start screen with this unrelated background behind, so it appears that video pages were crossed up somewhere. When the PP show started, it disappeared from the projector, but ran on the lappy.

My conclusion was that the video external port was being fed different pages than was the laptop.

It was, because he had it set to do that. Thats normally how to do presentations.

I've never seen that happen with a PC, only with his late model mac - I think with a retina screen but not positive about that.

windows pcs support both modes.

[crossfade]

Walk into any graphics department and its mostly Macs. the PCS are over in accounting. Look at what computers people are carrying and using, its way more than 9% Mac and Im not talking about personal friends either. Most presentations and lectures I go to are given with a Mac for instance and the people i see attending conferences often have Macs. its way more than 9%.

You also have to understand what the published statistics mean before blindly citing them. For consumer market share (which is what matters for a consumer product), microsoft is actually rather low. Whats hot now are tablets and phones, not mac and windows.

What's your source for that? The major slide show programs for PC dont support Mac and the major slide show programs for Mac dont support PC. So what? AV competition isnt the only place people do slide shows either.

Another strawman, I never said mac software was superior. I pick the best tool for whatever i want to do. SOmetimes its a mac, sometimes not. Some Mac programs are better than windows and some windows programs are better than Mac. By having both systems (Macbook + PC desktop) I can choose which to use and when, or run VMware on the mac which i do too.

You were told wrong and I doubt you know anyone at the vice president level at Apple anyway. Maybe you know some people at the local Apple store though.

http://www.businessw...lt-in-hollywood

Nothing strawman about it. Many graphics professionals do use Macs. Visit any ad agency. Even Microsoft and Dell's ads are done on Macs. The last post in this thread says he's in IT sales and its 95% mac. Anecdotal to be sure but thats a far cry from 9%. Even if its half of what he claims, its still a lot.

Whether its most or not doesnt matter. what matters is it is a significant number and much more than 9%.

As for Pixar, obviously there are enough people doing video on Macs and linux to justify supporting three different platforms, not just two. Also notice that windows is listed last of the three. Usually the most popular version is listed first, not last.

Look again. The distinctive aluminum design is clear, and the Apple logo is also visible in some scenes.

Their renderfarm is linux. Whats on people's desks can be anything, really.

Not that it matters since Pixar doesn't use PTE so theyre not a potential customer. Whether they use Macs or not doesnt matter but they know that many other people use macs or they wouldn't have written Renderman for Mac.

presumably the MacBook Pro was left at the podium by the conference organizers or a previous presenter.

Presumably?? Well that's convincing!

The fact there even was a Mac on the podium at a major Microsoft presentation, regardless of who used it, means they're not as rare as you want to think.

Microsoft did use

and when Ballmer introduced it on TV.

He was the chairman, which I'd call head of, but if you want to argue semantics you'll have to find someone else. The point is he's not using his own products.

I dont know what their reasons are and I didnt say I write Mac software, another strawman of yours.

I'm not yapping either. Im just saying that its been years and hasnt happened and there arent any signs that it will be happening any time soon (or at all). Id like to be wrong but so far, i see nothing that shows otherwise. I asked what the cause of the delay has been but so far, no answer.

It was announced 6 years ago to be expected within a year or two, which is 4-5 years for a shipping program. If youre going to quibble over rounding off to 5, then again, you'll have to find someone else to argue.

[davegee]

ON A LIGHTER NOTE:

We should all be careful when correcting each other's spelling mistakes and/or grammatical errors.

Its Klingon = It's Klingon = It is Klingon

Your wrong = You're wrong = You are wrong

Just some examples which may or may not have appeared above.

BTW I get the MAC vs PC debate on a daily basis. My Daughter-in-law is a Graphic Designer and works in a MAC environment. Sometimes her arguments make sense and sometimes not. We agree to disagree.

DG

[JEB]

THE FORUM IS ALIVE AND WELL........................let's leave it at that........till the next time!

[PGA]

We agree to disagree.

Could that be a definition for "wisdom"? :)/> :unsure:/>

[davegee]

Yes, I'm wise and she disagrees!

DG :rolleyes:/>

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Yes, I'm wise and she disagrees!

DG :rolleyes:/>/>/>

What's the expression ????? :unsure:/> :unsure:/> :unsure:/> "It's easy to be wise after the event" or words to that effect. :lol:/>

Yachtsman1.

[crossfade]

Already given but heres more. go to an Apple store and a Microsoft store. One of them will be packed with people buying all sorts of white and silver products and the other one will be mostly empty. Even the mac sections in big box stores are much busier than the rest of the store. Everywhere I go I see lots of people using macs from kids to elderly people. Roughly half of my clients use Macs.

thats very odd for something that supposedly has just 9% market share.

Look again, and it has everything to do with the discussion. Consumer share is what matters for consumer software.

http://windows.micro...oft-surface-pro

You brought up AV competitions, not me.

Not the same thing.

What part is not clear:

"and unlike many companies, says it never pays for its products to appear on television or in movies"

"Apple was struggling in those days, and then, as always, refused to pay for product placement"

"Such barter deals are common today, and Apple is rare in having the luxury to skip them"

I didn't call you a liar. Kindly stop fabricating things I did not say, or i will call you a liar.

What I said was I doubt you know any Apple VPs, and it turns out you named one out of the several you claim to know and she is the VP of AppleCare and a new hire, so she wouldn't know anything about Apple's product placement policies, so why even mention it?? It doesn't support your claim at all. YOure just tossing names.

Either you have proof that Apple pays for product placement, contrary to everything Apple and other sources have said and on numerous occasions, or you don't, and its clear you dont.

Outdated beliefs. 20 years ago that might have held water. Not anymore. Things change, and what matters anyway is using the best tool for the job, not blindly picking what you think is the leader. Sometimes thats a Mac and sometimes it isn't.

Im not disputing him nor am I arguing. Again, stop fabricating things I did not say. What one employee uses is not indicative of the entire company.

Pixar uses mac, windows and linux. This is a fact and easily observed by visiting their web site.

That means some employees will be using a mac and others won't. Some employees might even use more than one system. Like most well run companies, they use the best tool for the job. They dont have biases or mistaken beliefs. Pixar obviously uses macs to write Renderman for Mac and Macs are clearly visible in the video I linked. It doesnt get any clearer than that.

Claiming that Pixar does not use Macs is silly and obviously wrong and makes you look foolish, so why do you continue?

Another Mac user is Intel ex-ceo Paul Ottelini, "where Paul says that he uses his Mac for personal stuff, and his virtualized Windows PC in Parallels for business stuff, which is a similar use case that we're seeing from many of our hundreds of thousands of users."

It doesnt and I do.

WNSoft said 1-2 years when they first announced they were doing a mac version, so even they dont think it takes 5 years.

I work with software developers for mac windows ios and android (I create the graphics for whatever programs they are doing) and i have a very good idea of how long things take since i see a variety of programs move from the original spec to the finished product.

Anyway, I asked a couple of the mac guys about what they thought of PTE for mac. They said no way would it be 5 years. They said more like a year, maybe 2 if its their first mac program, which is what wnsoft originally said. One guy didnt even think it would take that long. Heck even the Windows guys i work with dont see it taking 5 years and they don't do any mac programming!

meanwhile, microsoft converted Windows to run on an entirely different cpu for Windows RT in a couple of years. Unfortunately its not selling too well. Too bad, because the idea of a single system to run on everything is good.

Apple converted OSX to run on Intel in a couple of years, faster than what they said it would be and then converted it again to the iphone in about two more years.

In the past 5 years, Adobe released CS4, CS5, CS6 and CC including making it 64 bit on both mac and windows. Lightroom had 3 major releases. Quite a bit was added in each version too.

Those are all much bigger and far more complex projects than PTE.

Again, and back to the topic, simple question to wnsoft: what's the cause of the delay for Mac PTE and what is being done to remedy it?

Im not the only person who has asked for a mac native version, and im sure theyre wondering whats really going on too.

[Lin Evans]

The developer has responded twice to the question - I've removed my replies because they offer nothing of substance which has not already been discussed...

this topic is closed....

Lin