DVD Video strong flicker

[davegee]

VLC does it.

But there must be others.

Since what you see if you play the ISO should be identical to burning to a DVD I would think that burning to a DVD would be the quickest option?

I started creating ISOs purely for diagnostic purposes long ago and never got out of the habit. I just create the ISO - right click and open in ether ROXIO or Cyber Link and let them write to the DVD.

DG

[PGA]

Dave,

My approach to trying to diagnose this problem was to eliminate as many variables as possible. If I can view the ISO on the computer and see the problem then it rules out the DVD player and the TV set. However, I'm not willing to add another software program just to do this testing. I do not habitually burn ISO files (or even DVDs) so I think I'll duck out of this topic at this point.

Thanks for the advice. I've learnt a little more about PTE. My apologies to the original poster, but I'll not be able to help on this one.

regards,

Peter

[Ken Cox]

Peter

see

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows7/burn-a-cd-or-dvd-from-an-iso-file

ken

[PGA]

Thanks, Ken, but as I have stated in my post above, I was only doing all this to try and help diagnose the problem. I have no personal interest in producing ISO files or in burning DVDs (except in very rare situations). If I need something that is TV compliant I will create an MP4 (H264) video file, load it onto a USB flash drive and shove that into the USB port on my TV.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

If I get my confidence back I might try it again.

DG

[nobeefstu]

Peter,

VLC does it.

But there must be others.

If you have Media Player Classic-Home Cinema installed to play MP4 files ... the program/player will also play ISO files. Use top menu File Open and select browse for All Files (not just media types) to see the ISO Files.

*I find it easier just to drag the ISO File into the opened Media Player or onto its short-cut.

[davegee]

Thanks Stu,

I think that I have done that previously, but I looked and could not find the obvious way to do it.

DG

[Ken Cox]

Thanks, Ken, but as I have stated in my post above, I was only doing all this to try and help diagnose the problem. I have no personal interest in producing ISO files or in burning DVDs (except in very rare situations). If I need something that is TV compliant I will create an MP4 (H264) video file, load it onto a USB flash drive and shove that into the USB port on my TV.

regards,

Peter

Peter

somebody might want the info

ken

[davegee]

Problem Stu,

It recognizes the ISO File and will start to play it but the result is DREADFUL!!

Have you actually tried a PTE ISO File in MPC yourself?

DG

[Barry Beckham]

Lapiovra

I have only just read the issue you have with creating a DVD and I have just downloaded your zipped sample. I created a DVD using your sample in the usual way using PTE 8 beta 7 and played it back on my 60in Plasma TV. What I saw was what I expect to see in a slide show made for DVD. What I mean by that is that the quality of the images were not as good as we would see on our PC or on a TV running a HD video of the slide show, but they were about what I expected. That is normal and it's why DaveG said he does not make DVD's for that reason (image quality). Neither do I for the same reasons unless they are family snaps where the quality is not the be all and end all.

I assume that different TV's may render DVD pictures differently and I well recall DVD's I did make a few years ago were awful. No fault of PTE, it was just DVD quality, but now I notice a distinct improvement. Perhaps its the Plasma TV that has given me this improvement. It might handle the images better, but I am guessing here. I am currently making a memorial slide show for someone at the moment who can't really handle anything else but a DVD. The quality of that is OK and no different to yours, but if they were high quality landscapes I had spent time creating, then I would not be so happy. Also the DVD slide show I am making does not contain animation and that will certainly make a difference to the perceived quality. However, I will make versions for PC, Mac and Mp4 in case I can play them on the memorial day, because they will be far better quality than a DVD

The quality I saw in your example was much the same as the slide show I have just been making. Its what I would expect from images that started off at 1920 pixels on the long side and for DVD use have to be reduced to 720 pixels. Again, that is no fault of PTE. It's just the resolution of DVD's

I am wondering if the flickering you're seeing is more of a shimmer and probably slightly worse on animated images. You certainly wouldn't be the first to be disappointed enough in the quality of a DVD to believe there was some error in the software or settings, or that you had done something wrong. I have received a great deal of emails on that subject over the years and I am wondering if the DVD quality has caught you out too. I can't be sure of course, but we do get quite used to the quality of our still images and our flat screens and DVD quality can be a shock sometimes..

If you have the time and you want a further test, you can send me a DVD you have made so I can play it here to see if it differs from the one I made with your sample. You can find our contact details below. If you would like to do that I can give you feedback via email if you wish

http://www.beckhamdigital.com.au/store/pc/Contact-E-mail-Phone-d10.htm

I think you may already have been given the best advice and that is to find a way of playing either the exe through a laptop or an MP4 through a stick or again a laptop.

Sorry I arrived at the party late, hope this has been some help.

Regards Barry

Beckham Digital

[davegee]

Barry,

Might I ask something?

How is your DVD player connected to your TV and what kind of DVD Player is it?

I noticed some time ago that Upscaling DVD Players connected via Scart are an improvement on some of the older units we originally had.

Furthermore, a BR Player (playing a standard DVD) connected via HDMI is another step up in quality.

So, the quality of the DVD made by PTE seems to be possible of (at least) three different quality levels depending on the equipment used. At this time I have a BR Player connected via HDMI and whilst it is not 1920x1080 MPEG4 quality through the TV it certainly seems to give better quality than I remembered when I first tried to create a PTE DVD.

I may be wrong but I don't think that it's only PTE that we have to thank for this improvement in quality. The standard of our playback equipment has also improved greatly.

DG

[PGA]

So, the quality of the DVD made by PTE seems to be possible of (at least) three different quality levels depending on the equipment used.

I may be wrong but I don't think that it's only PTE that we have to thank for this improvement in quality. The standard of our playback equipment has also improved greatly.

These different quality levels that are consequent upon varying playback technology make this a minefield when it comes to diagnosing the "root cause" of what is perceived, by the user, as poor quality of playback. Hence my previous statement:

My approach to trying to diagnose this problem was to eliminate as many variables as possible. If I can view the ISO on the computer and see the problem then it rules out the DVD player and the TV set.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Agreed, BUT, on the evidence of my little test with playing an ISO in MPC I can't imagine any DVD being THAT BAD.

So, in this case, I'm inclined to think that until I find something which plays ISO and doesn't involve downloading from a dodgy source I'll pass on trying to play the ISO and skip straight to the DVD.

I wonder if Igor can suggest something that will do it?

DG

[Barry Beckham]

Dave

It is a Blue Ray player that I am using and its connected via a HDMI cable.

Right now I think the original poster of the question may not have a problem at all, but I will leave a little but in there just in case. It sounds very much like a discerning photographer who is a bit surprised at the difference between the quality of what our eyes have become accustomed to on our PC's and what you get on a DVD.

[nobeefstu]

Dave,

Problem Stu,

It recognizes the ISO File and will start to play it but the result is DREADFUL!!

Have you actually tried a PTE ISO File in MPC yourself?

DG

I dont know about DREADFUL!! ... to me the ISO playback in MPC appears as standard/normal/basic DVD quality. If I mount the ISO as a virtual drive ... the visual playback is the same in Windows Media Player.

I have not installed VLC to compare playback/quality with MPC. Its very possible VLC has additional playback filtering to upgrade the standard DVD quality like up-convert players. VLC seems a more robust featured program since its also suppose to playback Bluray whereas MPC cannot.

[davegee]

Stu,

Your reply prompted me to check which version of MPC that I had and sure enough it was OLD!

I updated to 1.7.0 and it now plays fine.

It shows the wisdom of keeping up to date with software versions B)/>.

An ISO out of PTE is not compatible with the version I previously had (1.5.x??).

Thanks,

DG

[lapiovra]

Lapiovra

I have only just read the issue you have with creating a DVD and I have just downloaded your zipped sample. I created a DVD using your sample in the usual way using PTE 8 beta 7 and played it back on my 60in Plasma TV. What I saw was what I expect to see in a slide show made for DVD. What I mean by that is that the quality of the images were not as good as we would see on our PC or on a TV running a HD video of the slide show, but they were about what I expected. That is normal and it's why DaveG said he does not make DVD's for that reason (image quality). Neither do I for the same reasons unless they are family snaps where the quality is not the be all and end all.

I assume that different TV's may render DVD pictures differently and I well recall DVD's I did make a few years ago were awful. No fault of PTE, it was just DVD quality, but now I notice a distinct improvement. Perhaps its the Plasma TV that has given me this improvement. It might handle the images better, but I am guessing here. I am currently making a memorial slide show for someone at the moment who can't really handle anything else but a DVD. The quality of that is OK and no different to yours, but if they were high quality landscapes I had spent time creating, then I would not be so happy. Also the DVD slide show I am making does not contain animation and that will certainly make a difference to the perceived quality. However, I will make versions for PC, Mac and Mp4 in case I can play them on the memorial day, because they will be far better quality than a DVD

The quality I saw in your example was much the same as the slide show I have just been making. Its what I would expect from images that started off at 1920 pixels on the long side and for DVD use have to be reduced to 720 pixels. Again, that is no fault of PTE. It's just the resolution of DVD's

I am wondering if the flickering you're seeing is more of a shimmer and probably slightly worse on animated images. You certainly wouldn't be the first to be disappointed enough in the quality of a DVD to believe there was some error in the software or settings, or that you had done something wrong. I have received a great deal of emails on that subject over the years and I am wondering if the DVD quality has caught you out too. I can't be sure of course, but we do get quite used to the quality of our still images and our flat screens and DVD quality can be a shock sometimes..

If you have the time and you want a further test, you can send me a DVD you have made so I can play it here to see if it differs from the one I made with your sample. You can find our contact details below. If you would like to do that I can give you feedback via email if you wish

http://www.beckhamdigital.com.au/store/pc/Contact-E-mail-Phone-d10.htm

I think you may already have been given the best advice and that is to find a way of playing either the exe through a laptop or an MP4 through a stick or again a laptop.

Sorry I arrived at the party late, hope this has been some help.

Regards Barry

Beckham Digital

[lapiovra]

Hello Berry, I really appreciate your comment.

Like Dave and other posters already suggested and in fact you endorse to, is that for full quality presentations you must use an exe file or an MPEG4 file. In the meantime I am more convinced of this point of view. Still there are people who have no USB connection on the TV or a streamer, and so for these people the DVD-video is still the most appropiate.

I would very much like to use your offer of sending you a DVD with the (flickering) presentation so that you can analyze and comment.

So I will send you a Video DVD and hope to receice some feedback by email.

Thanks in advance.

ps: when will you new DVD be ready (what's new in PTE 8)

[Barry Beckham]

No problem sending the Disk and I will reply via email, but I hope you don't mind some feedback here so other members are kept up to date.

I have been making videos for PTE8 and Photoshop CC Raw. As soon as PTE 8 is released I will have the disk done.

[Barry Beckham]

Hello Lapiovra

I received your DVD today and the effect your seeing on the TV is definitely the Moiré effect. It's not a fault of the software and it's a phenomenon that is well known and its not exclusive to a DVD. It just seems to be enhanced by the DVD creation process. Do a Google search and you can read all the technical stuff you want about Moiré. If you have ever watched an old western, where the wheels of the coach appear to be stationary or even going backwards? That is the Moiré effect. In our Slide Shows it has a number of causes and knowing those will help us to avoid it, or at least limit it to acceptable levels.

1. The effect will be seen far more on high contrast subjects, bright leaves against a dark background are a good example, so if you can avoid excessive highlights that will go a long way to curing the problem. Don't overdo contrast in sunlit images or you may make matters worse

2. Sharpening images is another direct cause that can also make the moiré effect worse. I am not suggesting over sharpening, but that will not help either. As the image is intended for animation, try to avoid sharpening your original image. This will go some way to help reduce the Moiré effect.

3. Probably the biggest cause of moiré is using images for your animation that are far bigger than they need to be. If you're using a slide show aspect ratio of 16:9 (1920*1080) and you want to zoom the image, you actually don't need that much extra size in your images. (depending on the zoom of course) I made a test that you can download from below. http://www.mediafire...0test%25201.zip The slide show Aspect Ratio was set at 1920*1080 and the image size was created at 2560*1440. With these sizes you can see the extent of the zoom, which is quite enough in my view, even though the image is only 600 pixels longer than the show size. If we use high resolution images the moiré effect shows up more when the size of the image is small on screen. Its like all the pixels are crammed into too small a space. So, another solution to defeat the Moiré effect is to resize your images so they are not far bigger than they need to be for the animation you want to create. If I were creating a panned image for example: I would use my image editor to crop and size the image in one operation. This will allow me to retain an image of no higher than 1080 pixels, but I can add a few hundred pixels to the width, say 2300*1080. This gives me the ability to pan, but I don't have any excess pixels I don't need.

4. Some animations will make matters worse, so if you have a pan left to right followed by a zoom and the moiré effect is bad. Try changing the animation a little. For example make them both gentle pans or both zooms. Often I have been able to defeat the moiré effect that way.

5. Within PicturesToExe we do have some way to deal with the Moiré effect. Select an image that shows the moiré effect and open the Objects and Animations widow. Go to the properties tab and you will see a sharper smoother slider. –100 is the default setting, so slide it to the right to –80 and try the slide show again. You will need to move the slider gradually and you will soon find a setting that suits your images and style. The trick is to only go as far as you need, so you don't soften the image too much. Its not a great idea to watch a preview in the Objects and Animation screen because you're only seeing one image. You need to make a judgement based on one image as it's animated and faded over another animated image. To help show up the moiré effect and simulate a DVD. Try temporarily viewing your slide show smaller. To do that go to your Project Options > Screen tab and change the size of the slide window to 720*576. It may be an idea to do this before you move that smoother slider so you have a visual record of the before setting. Don't forget to reset it back afterwards though.

6. Some of your animations seemed just a little rushed to me, but I appreciate what you sent was a test and not the final show. However, gentle animation is nearly always a good option and it's another small step to defeating the moiré effect. I have found the crucial causes of the moiré effect are Image size too large, high contrast and over sharpening.

Other forum members may be able to add to this list.

I hope that helps a little.

Regards Barry

[lapiovra]

Hello Lapiovra

I received your DVD today and the effect your seeing on the TV is definitely the Moiré effect. It's not a fault of the software and it's a phenomenon that is well known and its not exclusive to a DVD. It just seems to be enhanced by the DVD creation process. Do a Google search and you can read all the technical stuff you want about Moiré. If you have ever watched an old western, where the wheels of the coach appear to be stationary or even going backwards? That is the Moiré effect. In our Slide Shows it has a number of causes and knowing those will help us to avoid it, or at least limit it to acceptable levels.

1. The effect will be seen far more on high contrast subjects, bright leaves against a dark background are a good example, so if you can avoid excessive highlights that will go a long way to curing the problem. Don't overdo contrast in sunlit images or you may make matters worse

2. Sharpening images is another direct cause that can also make the moiré effect worse. I am not suggesting over sharpening, but that will not help either. As the image is intended for animation, try to avoid sharpening your original image. This will go some way to help reduce the Moiré effect.

3. Probably the biggest cause of moiré is using images for your animation that are far bigger than they need to be. If you're using a slide show aspect ratio of 16:9 (1920*1080) and you want to zoom the image, you actually don't need that much extra size in your images. (depending on the zoom of course) I made a test that you can download from below. http://www.mediafire...0test%25201.zip The slide show Aspect Ratio was set at 1920*1080 and the image size was created at 2560*1440. With these sizes you can see the extent of the zoom, which is quite enough in my view, even though the image is only 600 pixels longer than the show size. If we use high resolution images the moiré effect shows up more when the size of the image is small on screen. Its like all the pixels are crammed into too small a space. So, another solution to defeat the Moiré effect is to resize your images so they are not far bigger than they need to be for the animation you want to create. If I were creating a panned image for example: I would use my image editor to crop and size the image in one operation. This will allow me to retain an image of no higher than 1080 pixels, but I can add a few hundred pixels to the width, say 2300*1080. This gives me the ability to pan, but I don't have any excess pixels I don't need.

4. Some animations will make matters worse, so if you have a pan left to right followed by a zoom and the moiré effect is bad. Try changing the animation a little. For example make them both gentle pans or both zooms. Often I have been able to defeat the moiré effect that way.

5. Within PicturesToExe we do have some way to deal with the Moiré effect. Select an image that shows the moiré effect and open the Objects and Animations widow. Go to the properties tab and you will see a sharper smoother slider. –100 is the default setting, so slide it to the right to –80 and try the slide show again. You will need to move the slider gradually and you will soon find a setting that suits your images and style. The trick is to only go as far as you need, so you don't soften the image too much. Its not a great idea to watch a preview in the Objects and Animation screen because you're only seeing one image. You need to make a judgement based on one image as it's animated and faded over another animated image. To help show up the moiré effect and simulate a DVD. Try temporarily viewing your slide show smaller. To do that go to your Project Options > Screen tab and change the size of the slide window to 720*576. It may be an idea to do this before you move that smoother slider so you have a visual record of the before setting. Don't forget to reset it back afterwards though.

6. Some of your animations seemed just a little rushed to me, but I appreciate what you sent was a test and not the final show. However, gentle animation is nearly always a good option and it's another small step to defeating the moiré effect. I have found the crucial causes of the moiré effect are Image size too large, high contrast and over sharpening.

Other forum members may be able to add to this list.

I hope that helps a little.

Regards Barry

[lapiovra]

Thanks a lot Barry, your response is very informative and instructive for me. I surely will take your suggestions in account. Thansk again.