Timeline in the new O&A editor

[Barry Beckham]

Sometimes there are simply too many variables to enter manually for seriously complex animations which some users create. I'm reminded of JPD's Penser Avec son Pinceau which was recently posted to the Demo section of Slideshow Club. Have you watched it? It's difficult to even conceive of creating such without the help of a spread-sheet or at least a tool such as OAK to aid in the calculation and distribution of the data.

Yes, its very clever and very well done, but not something which the majority of PTE users would be interested in, which is my point really. As I have said before, the direction Igor takes his software in is up to him. I could be wildly wrong, but I think the majority of users come to PTE for it's AV qualities and that is where the revenue is.

Obviously, the vast majority of users will never create nor even want to create such an incredible masterpiece, but the need remains for those who do to have a means of doing so. Well, I am not quite so convinced as you, but freely admit that I am not sure. Personally I prefer the more dedicated software that does what it says it does and does it very well. I personally would not like to see PTE try to become an image editor and a complex animation tool because if I am right and the vast majority of users want it to make a simple AV. Then you could shoot yourself right in the foot making PTE too complex. The idea of software is that a programming expert creates an easy to follow interface for the rest of us to follow. I am not sure they always achieve that. Another example is the creation of bezier curve motions. It sometimes requires thousands of keyframes to accomplish the desired results. The "points" at which certain motions coincide with the background music might be set manually with some facility, but the intermediate keyframe values are often far too complex to calculate for manual creation and entry.

My point exactly, how many people will want to do that from every 1000 PTE users? I don't know and can only guess, but I bet it won't be very many.

The idea for future advancement of PTE would be to have a tool which allows both the novice as well as the experienced presentation engineer and also the experienced animator to more easily build their desired artistic creations, I think.

Well perhaps Igor will allow the gap between Essentials and Deluxe to widen over time to allow that. You only have to see how tied up some newer users become with PTE as it is. (no offense to them) It's a catch 22 thing perhaps. The software has to be constantly improved to remain viable and it gradually gets more complex. The trick Igor has to avoid is improving the software and adding new options without damaging the reputation PTE has for ease of use.

Having said all that AV to me comes from the feel, the look, the sound of what I am producing. The thought of a spread sheet being anywhere close to that process for me would probably kill my interest. I think sometimes the average Joe's views are not heard very much among the calls for more and more animation and image editing tools.

[Lin Evans]

Hi Barry,

What I think the underlying issue is, is how to attract new users to the product. We old photographers who create audio visual shows of our still photos and sometimes even our video's are a dying breed. If you examine the age group of audio visual competitions and shows you find a pattern of older folks, many of whom are retired or nearing retirement. Igor began this product as a very young man and with a young man's vision of the future. Fortunately for the product, he is only fifteen years older than when he began, yet still a young man. Many of us who have used his product since its inception are in the twilight years of our lives and the product is just now coming into its own and gaining world-wide popularity. The future market is clearly for the youth who have a totally different interest than most of us in terms of image/video display and manipulation. What is the most common "toy" among children and even young people of high school age? For a few it's sports toys such as the football, basketball, baseball and associated things, but for the vast majority it's what? Video games! Video games come and go but the tools to allow the inquisitive young minds to create these type things persist through time. There exists a natural variation in tools to allow creative young minds to explore the possibilities. Some of these tools are produced by 3D animation companies (Maya Blender, etc.) and some are produced by graphical manipulation companies (Adobe AfterEffects, Eyeon Fusion, etc.) and then there is PTE which has a huge head-start on a niche of its own. Though PTE exists firmly in the realm of presentation slideshow creation software, it's truly much, much more. It represents possibilities not equaled in other products which are extremely attractive to the younger buyer. In the not too distant future, we old codgers who make presentations with still slides and throw in a few video clips now and then will be history. The future is elsewhere and the tools which have a significant start with PTE need to be preserved and improved. This not to the detriment of its primary purpose at present, but should not be left by the wayside because these very things which you see little use for are precisely the things which attract the younger buyer to this product. I use many of these other tools but frankly, I can do things with PTE which would take me fifty times as long to do with my other expensive 3D and graphical manipulation software. There are some things I can do with PTE which there is apparently not another tool available which can replace it.

My feeling is that for the preservation and growth of Wnsoft, this niche needs to be exploited. Perhaps sometime in the not too distant future PTE will divide into two major areas of interest. The conventional slideshow and the animation show. Of the two, one has a limited future life-cycle. The other is looming large on the horizon in my crystal ball....

Best regards,

Lin

[Barry Beckham]

Fair enough, but lets hope your right

[Jean-Claude]

I think Lin is right.
Today the majority of users of PTE are part of the "silver economy" even if the "twilight" may be far for them.

As Lin said the future for PTE is to attract young followers of digital technology and for that offer a degree of sophistication of tools they know anyway master.

For me, a way to significantly increase the possibilities of PTE without overloading the capacity of WnSoft development is to define a clear and well documented interface(for O&A) in order to allow creating PLUGINS.

Many products have taken this path, Photoshop, Firefox, OpenCPN ...

Imagine OAK as a plugin. A simple button opens O&A and you see directly the window with multi tracks objects. You change the settings, you close OAK and the deal is done
Possible examples: create a Bezier curve, draw a route (based high demand and widely used), add a Google map, clip an image as plugin GML GrowCut...

And why not use open Photoshop plugin directly if the interface is in the public domain?

[Barry Beckham]

Jean Claude

Can you please remind members what OAK is? Who Makes it? and what advantage you think is has for us?

Never having used it I did a search on the forum, but cannot find a definition, but I do recall something about it some time ago.

How many members use it? Perhaps everyone who does can just add one line that explains what it does for them. It will give members a better idea of it's advantages

re Today the majority of users of PTE are part of the "silver economy" even if the "twilight" may be far for them.

We are constantly told that the aged make up a larger and larger part of any population these days. If they are the majority of your customers, move away from them at your peril. Perhaps?

[Lin Evans]

Hi Barry,

Not to answer for Jean-Claude - but the purpose of OAK of which Jean-Claude is the author is seen in the opening of the PDF instructions here:

OAK

Objects, Animation, keyframes

What is the purpose of OAK?

Globally visualize, manipulate, modify overall temporal data

of all objects in a slide issued from PTE and synchronize

objects to the soundtrack with the help of Audacity.

Oak is furnished and documented in both English and French. You can download it here:

http://diapositif.net/forum/download/file.php?id=41166

When it is installed a PDF will be found in the installation folder which is by default found in C:\Program Files\OAK1.0.2c

The PDF instructions will show you how to use it. It is a fantastic tool which uses the clipboard to transfer information between itself and the yourfilename.pte file. It's a very thorough piece of work and consists of over 24,000 lines of code/text. Having some of the features incorporated into PTE would be a wonderful thing or having PTE contain the option of using it like a plugin would be a very nice addition.

I'm certain Jean-Claude can explain it's complete function in much more detail than I have, but it is an invaluable time saver for those who wish to do complex animations and synchronizations.

See attached thumbnail below for more information...

Best regards,

Lin

[Barry Beckham]

What is the purpose of OAK?

Globally visualize, manipulate, modify overall temporal data
of all objects in a slide issued from PTE and synchronize
objects to the soundtrack with the help of Audacity.

As clear as Mud Sorry mate, but your just talking jargon.

Perhaps the many Oak users can all write just one line in a thread that spells out in layman's terms what they get from OAK. I am interested and willing to be educated, just in case I am missing something I shouldn't. However, I do not have the inclination to download a software add-on and learn it just to be able to tell if it may be useful or not and so far I ain't convinced.

I want to hear from the many practical users of Oak - Keep it simple folks and explain.

[Lin Evans]

Did you look at the thumbnail? It explains in more detail. I like and use the program myself. Want to move a few keyframes in concert? Can you do that now? You can with OAK

Did you not download PhotoShop and learn it? Did you know all about what it could do for you before you worked with it, or did you take the word of others who had worked with it that it was something you might find useful? You bought it at great expense too, didn't you?

You probably don't need OAK because you probably don't have the inclination to do the things it can help you with. It's a free program - download it and try it or not. Really it makes no difference to anyone but you.

Best regards,

Lin

[Jean-Claude]

Excuse me Barry if you do not understand my jargon. There are also two other versions, one French and one Italian.

I saw on this English forum many members who have understood the interest of the software and therefore understood the meaning of words.

But perhaps it is too late today (first presentation on 1 May 2012) to take an interest in OAK because Igor has promised us that several of its functions will be taken into account in one form or another in 8.5 PTE release.

Best regards

[Barry Beckham]

I don't think the thumbnail helps a great deal to understand OAK

Did you not download PhotoShop and learn it? No, I was introduced to Photoshop (on disk) many years before software became downloadable. A good friend bought a very early version, Photoshop 3 I think? (may have been earlier) So, well before I put my hand in my pocket I had a pretty good idea of what it could do and if I would like it, which I think most people still do today if they can.

Did you know all about what it could do for you before you worked with it, or did you take the word of others who had worked with it that it was something you might find useful? I had seen it on my friends computer and had the opportunity to play around with it quite a bit. I ended up teaching him how to use it. I eventually got Photoshop 3 or 4 I think. Upgraded to the next version and from then Photoshop supplied me with future copies right up to CS-6.

You bought it at great expense too, didn't you? No, it wasn't too bad back then. I got a free early version with a flatbed scanner (which I only bought to get Photoshop) then upgraded at my own cost to PS4 or 5 for something like £120 if my memory serves me right.

The great thing about a forum is you can learn by other peoples experiences and views. In fact, isn't that what forums are good at and why we participate. You don't have to take everything that is said as gospel, but you can get a pretty good idea of what the software can do and perhaps decide if it may be useful. Whether that involves payment or even if the software is free. I don't seem to have the time or the inclination to gather software on my computer and then learn it without having some idea if I may find it useful. I doubt there is enough hours in the day to do that anyway

Having said all that I have been wrong before and will be wrong again, so never say never is my motto. Your right, OAK may offer nothing to my style of PTE use, but then again, it might. I am trying to get a feel for whether OAK is something I may find a use for. I will wait to see if users can throw up some examples of how it has helped them, maybe even the odd slide show demo.

[Tonton Bruno]

+1

Igor ,

Visualization of the sound waveform is essential !

+ 1.

It is really something we need.

[Jean-Claude]

Sorry Barry, but I think this discussion will lead nowhere.

This thread is dedicated to the modification of O&A module, not to OAK. I refer again to OAK because IGOR had the opportunity to use it during his last trip to France. He gave a great interest precisely for the new features that could be included in this module.

If you really want to know what OAK do and consequently features that may be present in a future PTE, download, read the documentation which is attached, English is not perfect but making a little effort we arrive to understand, or try to use it directly. There is no risk.

I am convinced that for such a simple software (this is not a "gas factory" -french expression- and more understandable than Photoshop), documentation is not as valuable as a few hours of practice. Look how children deal with a computer even if they do not know yet read.

But as I mentioned in the previous post you also can wait for PTE 8.5.

PS: - OAK in one sentence: "synchronize perfectly (millisecond if desired) events belonging to several objects in a picture." I can not be clearer. and simpler.
- Photoshop price: 1 195 Euros , - OAK price: 0 Euros, the engagement is not the same

Best regards