Rectangle with a Window - add to O&A menu

[goddi]

Greetings,

I would like to have a 'Rectangle with a Window' object added to the O&A menu items. I'd like this object to have handles, not only on the outside, but also on the inside window so that the inside and outside edges are fully adjustable, and this window can be colored and have its Order changeable.

I added a crude example in an attachment. The red window represents the 'Rectangle with a Window' with handles.

I am sure this can be created in Photoshop, etc., but I think it would be very useful to have it built-in to the O&A menu with its full adjustabililty within PTE.

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

Nothing is easier to do than this with PTE - I'm not certain about making it a part of the O&A tool bar, but just open O&A and create a rectangle of any color or gradient you choose and make your image a child of that rectangle??? If you want multiple's just make a rectangle a child of a rectangle and make youf image a child of the second "nested" rectangle?

Best regards,

Lin

[Jean-Cyprien]

Hi Gary,

You could also use the border in Properties/Adjust image and border : width and color

Best regards

Jean-Cyprien

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

Nothing is easier to do than this with PTE - I'm not certain about making it a part of the O&A tool bar, but just open O&A and create a rectangle of any color or gradient you choose and make your image a child of that rectangle??? If you want multiple's just make a rectangle a child of a rectangle and make youf image a child of the second "nested" rectangle?

Best regards,

Lin

Lin,

Yes, I know you can do it as you stated. But, I want the 'Rectangle with a Window' to be able to cover the image that is added. I want to be able to bring the 'Rectangle with a Window' to the front so that I can position it in any way that I need, sort of as a frame. This would give you a fully adjustable 'frame' to an image.

Your method just puts the image on top of a rectangle.

Gary

[davegee]

Gary,

I could be wrong but isn't this a Mask Application?

Project1_1_Oct2-2014_19-44-00.zip

The outer Grab Handles are Rectangle 1 and the inner grab handles are the Mask (Rectangle).

DG

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

You could also use the border in Properties/Adjust image and border : width and color

Best regards

Jean-Cyprien

Gary,

I could be wrong but isn't this a Mask Application?

Project1_1_Oct2-2014_19-44-00.zip

The outer Grab Handles are Rectangle 1 and the inner grab handles are the Mask (Rectangle).

DG

Dave, That sort of emulates what the result might be, but it is way too complicated (for me) and not as easily adjustable. Why not have a simple rectangle that has an opening, where all the edges are adjustable? Why go through all the steps to do a Mask when it really is not needed?

Thanks for the example. Gary

[goddi]

Hi Gary,

You could also use the border in Properties/Adjust image and border : width and color

Best regards

Jean-Cyprien

Greetings Jean-Cyprien,

I understand what the Adjust Image and Borders will do. But it does not accomplish what I would like to have. Here is one example where I could use it. I took a bunch of hand-held images of a boat going through the locks at the Panama Canal. I carefully did my best to register them in a sequence in PTE so that it looked like a timed sequence. But, in the registration process, I had to do a slight rotation or slight pan to the left or to the right for each image to be pretty close to where it looked OK. I also had all the the "Percent of the slide to show main images" set at about 85%.

So as the sequence played, the images would move about a bit, due to the registration process. If I could place a 'Rectangle with a Window' around this sequence of images, it would hide this movement. And having handles on the inside and outside, I could fine-tune the 'frame'.

Other uses for a 'Rectangle with a Window' would be when you use the "Percent of the slide to show main images". You would have the ability to easily crop the images by just covering the images with the 'Rectangle with a Window'. Also, if you had an image that you had to rotate a bit to make it level, and it was zoomed in, the Rectangle with a Window' could be placed over it to hid the rotation.

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Here Gary,

Download this and see if it's what you are looking for: http://www.lin-evans.org/gary/garyframe.zip

Just hold the shift key and drag the borders around transparent

Lin

[goddi]

Here Gary,

Download this and see if it's what you are looking for: http://www.lin-evans.org/pte/gary/garyframe.zip

Just hold the shift key and drag the borders around transparent

Lin

Lin, Check your link. I could not get it to work.

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

Try it again - I had a wrong twist in the link... Clear your cache with CTRL F5 first....

Lin

[goddi]

Here Gary,

Download this and see if it's what you are looking for: http://www.lin-evans.org/gary/garyframe.zip

Just hold the shift key and drag the borders around transparent

Lin

Lin,

Yes, it works now. Thanks.

It is close to what I am looking for, but not quite. When I hold the shift key and drag a border, such as the top border, the top border moves down, but the bottom one moves too. It would be better if only the border that is selected to move actually moves. I realize that that it is adjusting the size of the other side to match the adjusting side's size.

Also, to add flexibility to it, it would be nice to have handle on the inside edges, too, so it could be used also as a 'frame', being able to adjust the outside and inside edges.

Thanks for the file. Getting close to what I am looking for. Why can't this type of Rectangle be added to the O&A menu? I think it would be very useful.

Also, your example acts more like what is in the 'Adjust Image and Border' menu. I think it should be more like 'Add Rectangle' so you have the 'Properties, Common and Animation' tabs.

Gary

[Lin Evans]

Also, your example acts more like what is in the 'Adjust Image and Border' menu. I think it should be more like 'Add Rectangle' so you have the 'Properties, Common and Animation' tabs.

Gary

??? You do have Properties, Common and Animations tabs??

Best regards,

Lin

[goddi]

??? You do have Properties, Common and Animations tabs??

Best regards,

Lin

Lin, Yes...for both (your example and the existing 'Add Rectangle') you get the 'Properties, Common and Animation' tabs. But the Properties Tab that shows with your example is a bit different (with Fill Mode and Colors) than what you get with the existing 'Add Rectangle'. Yes, you can change color in 'Adjust image and border', but why not make 'Add Rectangle with a Window' consistent with what you see with the already available 'Add Rectangle'.

Right???

Gary

Added Later: After working with your example, I understand it more. I copied the transparent.png file into one of my shows and played around with it. Works pretty well. I see you Enabled Borders to make it function. Now if Igor can incorporated something like this into the O&A, it would be very useful.

Thanks... Gary

[davegee]

Gary,

To clarify - this is what you are looking for isn't it?

The outer and inner dimensions are independently variable.

Project1_1.zip

DG

[PGA]

This topic is an excellent illustration of the point I made last month. What you are all offering Gary are workarounds. Yes, the function to do what Gary wants is already present in PTE. But it is not readily apparent to a new or inexperienced user just where to find it, or how to build it using the many components of PTE. Gary is neither a new or inexperienced user, and yet he has struggled with this. What he is asking for is an improvement to the user interface.

PTE already let's us build our own transitions and slide styles. Perhaps we now need to be able to build, and share, custom objects that can be placed on and added from the O&A window's toolbar.

[davegee]

Peter,

With the existing tools I am of the opinion that what Gary seeks is not possible?

An Object can only have ONE set of grab handles - it has to be a "complex object" to enable there to be more than one variable on a single object.

My post #14 is not offering him a workaround it is seeking clarification - if that is indeed what he wants I am at a loss to see how it can be achieved.

Maybe Igor can work miracles when he returns - he has before.

I also think that Gary could have placed this in a different part of the forum until he is/was absolutely sure that he wanted to suggest it in its present location? His OP is more of a "testing the water" than a serious "Suggestion for next version".

Also a simple "No Workarounds Please" would perhaps stop the practice.

DG

[goddi]

Peter,

With the existing tools I am of the opinion that what Gary seeks is not possible?

An Object can only have ONE set of grab handles - it has to be a "complex object" to enable there to be more than one variable on a single object.

My post #14 is not offering him a workaround it is seeking clarification - if that is indeed what he wants I am at a loss to see how it can be achieved.

Maybe Igor can work miracles when he returns - he has before.

I also think that Gary could have placed this in a different part of the forum until he is/was absolutely sure that he wanted to suggest it in its present location? His OP is more of a "testing the water" than a serious "Suggestion for next version".

Also a simple "No Workarounds Please" would perhaps stop the practice.

DG

Dave, Yes, your post #14 example looks like what I would like to have, a rectangle with a window that has outer and inner dimensions that are independently variable.

Peter, When I make a Suggestion, it can be for an improvement in something that I understand how to do, but perhaps can be made more intuitive or functional. But there are also Suggestions that I have not found a way to do accomplish. If someone can tell me how to do it, then, I think, it is not a workaround. It is just that I just did not know how to do it. But when someone can do it, but it is not eventually obvious or intuitive, then I might classify it as a workaround. I do appreciate you guys coming up with ways to do it, though it might not be an obvious way. This shows me that, perhaps, we do need a better solution.

I don't think I was 'testing the waters'. It really was a serious suggestion to solve a problem that I was having with PTE. I am no programmer, but I don't think it would be a difficult task to create a rectangle with a window that has outer and inner dimensions that are independently variable. I wish I had thought of those words, from Dave, to describe what I was looking for.

Thanks all for your input. I hope Igor can come up with something.

Gary

[jt49]

The original poster asks for an object with a hole (here called window). We once used constructions of that kind at times when we did not have masks. Now we can easily make use of masks, and the construction provided by Dave in post #5 is not a workaround, it is a (perhaps the) solution. It is much more general as we can apply it also to other objects (images, videos, ..) than rectangles, and we can have different forms of holes.

My statement: PTE should not be overloaded with new features that are easy applications of masks.

Regards,

jt

[goddi]

The original poster asks for an object with a hole (here called window). We once used constructions of that kind at times when we did not have masks. Now we can easily make use of masks, and the construction provided by Dave in post #5 is not a workaround, it is a (perhaps the) solution. It is much more general as we can apply it also to other objects (images, videos, ..) than rectangles, and we can have different forms of holes.

My statement: PTE should not be overloaded with new features that are easy applications of masks.

Regards,

jt

Jt...

Masks may be a way to create an 'object with a window' but, for me at least, I don't think you can add the word 'easy' to the application of masks. Not sure why I can't grasp their use, but I'd just rather not use them. They really seem too complicated. The way I look at it is, if you can make a rectangle object, why not be able to make a rectangle object with an adjustable hole? There might be good and valid reasons for not being able to do it but that is all I was asking for. Dave's post #5 does show how to do it with masks but much too difficult to deal with. I'd like something simple.

Gary

[jt49]

The question is, what do we call easy? Adding a hole (or call it window) to an object would require a lot of additional parameters in O&A (the aspect ratio of the hole/window, one or two zoom factors relative to the object, two coordinates of the hole's center relative to the hole itself, two coordinates of the center relative to the overall object, perhaps an angle). Would you want to see changes of these values on key frames (i.e. would you like to see animations of your hole)?

Furthermore: Why having your new feature only for rectangles, why not for images or videos? Why should the hole be restricted to a rectangular form, why not having elliptic holes?

But you should keep in mind: We have all these features! You only have to learn some basics on masks!

I am sorry to say that the Munich Oktoberfest is just over now. Perhaps you would like to visit it next year. Then take the time for a few extra hours, and I'll show you how to make basic mask constructions.

Regards,

jt

[Lin Evans]

I'm reminded of a violin, an instrument with four strings, a fingerboard and a bow with which to cause vibrations of the strings which impart their vibrations to the wooden body which amplifies and creates a sound which the auditory system interprets.

A child or an adult can be taught to play a simple melody such as "twinkle twinkle little star" in a few lessons. Some, who have the desire and aptitude, become masters such as Itzhak Perlman or Viktoria Mullova. Most will never get beyond the rather simplistic use of this tool. Whether the violin be a $25 ebay model or a rare multi-million dollar Stradivarius it will sound wonderful in the hands of the master but to the neophyte there will be no discernable difference. So it is with the tools we use to create, manipulate and display our artistic visions. In the hands of the neophyte, Photoshop has little value. In the hands of the experienced and/or talented designer, it becomes a means of expression of creations of beauty.

PTE is a tool which in the hands of masters such as JPD or Jean Cyprien can produce incredible results. Most of us will never learn to extract the ultimate results from PTE, but with perseverance and dedication, most can learn to more effectively use the tools already provided to help us produce our visions. This is not to say that we shouldn't continue to strive to improve an already fantastic product, but we should also use care that we do not turn PTE into the proverbial "jack of all trades - master of none" tool.

Perhaps it's time for a series of tutorials on using and creating masks.... It seems that what is missing here is not the means of doing what Gary has in mind, but a dearth of understanding of how to proceed. Masks may seem mysterious to the uninitiated, but actually they are quite straight-forward once some basic principles are understood.

[goddi]

The question is, what do we call easy? Adding a hole (or call it window) to an object would require a lot of additional parameters in O&A (the aspect ratio of the hole/window, one or two zoom factors relative to the object, two coordinates of the hole's center relative to the hole itself, two coordinates of the center relative to the overall object, perhaps an angle). Would you want to see changes of these values on key frames (i.e. would you like to see animations of your hole)?

Furthermore: Why having your new feature only for rectangles, why not for images or videos? Why should the hole be restricted to a rectangular form, why not having elliptic holes?

But you should keep in mind: We have all these features! You only have to learn some basics on masks!

I am sorry to say that the Munich Oktoberfest is just over now. Perhaps you would like to visit it next year. Then take the time for a few extra hours, and I'll show you how to make basic mask constructions.

Regards,

jt

Greetings Jt,

Perhaps I am not seeing the forest for the trees. But all I initially wanted was a window inside the current rectangle that would have some handles to manipulate it. Handles on the outside and handles on the inside. If that could be done, sure why not do it for elliptics, etc....if it can be done. That is all I was asking. Most of the responses have been, "learn masks." I have tried to understand how to manipulate Dave's Project 1_1.pte example. But there are 4 objects to work with. I feel like I am trying to open a combination lock that I don't have the combination to. Ok, that is my problem but I am just trying to find if such a rectangle with a window can be programmed in PTE. If it can't, case closed. Thanks for the invitation to Munich. Maybe I'll keep trying to work on Dave's example, for now....

Thanks... Gary

[goddi]

...Perhaps it's time for a series of tutorials on using and creating masks.... It seems that what is missing here is not the means of doing what Gary has in mind, but a dearth of understanding of how to proceed. Masks may seem mysterious to the uninitiated, but actually they are quite straight-forward once some basic principles are understood.

Lin,

Great idea.

Gary

[davegee]

http://docs.picturestoexe.com/en/techniques/addmask

dg

[goddi]

http://docs.picturestoexe.com/en/techniques/addmask

dg

Yes, Dave, I have been to that page...many times. One thing that kept bugging me is that I did not want the 'rounded' corners when I selected the rectangle mask. It seemed that when I moved it to 100%, the mask disappeared. But now I see that the mask does remain and I can get the sharp edges. And I am now making simple masks that seem to do what I want.

But...the difficulty is to copy and paste a mask from one slide to the other. For example, if I have already have the images in the show and later want to add the same mask to each of the images, it is not simple. I have to delete the image, paste the mask, and then re-add the image to the mask. This might seem strange but I had a show with images that had been scanned and all the images had these soft and rounded or black borders that you get when scanning slides. So I first wanted to make the show with the original scanned slide images. Then I wanted to get rid of the soft, rounded edges. So putting a rectangle with a hole in the middle (that had handles) would have been very simple, especially if you had a few hundred slides in the show.

I can see how to do it with masks...but not as easily, in this situation. Doing a mask after having added the images, requires the removal of the image and doing the mask and then re-adding the image. At least this how I see it so far.

But I am making progress. It seems that you have to create the mask first. Then add the image to the 'Mask Container' and then adjust the 'Mask (Rectangle)'.

Thanks.... Gary