Unclear on how to get rid of clipping on audio file in pte

[backpack45scb]

First attempt to work with version 8. I have 3 audio tracks that are wma, and one that is mp3. The volumes are not the same - mp3 much lower volume. When I look at the audio waveform on the timeline, I see substantial clipping on the wma tracks. When I right click on a track in the waveform, and adjust the volume down, to say 20%, I don't see any change in the clipped waveform being displayed.

I've attached a screen copy showing the clipping.

The originals of the wma files are high quality uncompressed, and I am sure are not initially clipped. I don't hear the clipping in the pte playback, but my ears are not too great.

So, Is clipping really going on? If so, what is the best way to get rid of it?

Also, more generally, if I have tracks with different relative volumes, what is the best way to get them adjusted appropriately?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[davegee]

No screen shot?

[backpack45scb]

Ah ha, choosing the file is not enough. One must attach it.

[PGA]

Clipping on a waveform indicates that the sound file has been badly engineered. Usually it indicates that the original signal has been recorded at too high a level. Alternatively it can indicate that the gain has been raised to too high a level during mixing. There is no cure for clipping once it exists. It has to be avoided at every phase of the sound engineering process. It is usually accompanied by audible distortion of the sound. This may not be apparent on typical PC loudspeakers but will almost always be apparent on good quality hi-fi loudspeakers.

If you have not altered these files with a sound editor (e.g. Audacity or Audition or equivalent) then the original recordings have been badly handled but the original sound engineers.

One final point. PTE does not change the shape of the displayed waveform to reflect any of the changes (fades or envelopes) that you might apply to the audio clip. It always shows the original waveform.

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

First attempt to work with version 8. I have 3 audio tracks that are wma, and one that is mp3. The volumes are not the same - mp3 much lower volume. When I look at the audio waveform on the timeline, I see substantial clipping on the wma tracks. When I right click on a track in the waveform, and adjust the volume down, to say 20%, I don't see any change in the clipped waveform being displayed.

I've attached a screen copy showing the clipping.

The originals of the wma files are high quality uncompressed, and I am sure are not initially clipped. I don't hear the clipping in the pte playback, but my ears are not too great.

So, Is clipping really going on? If so, what is the best way to get rid of it?

Also, more generally, if I have tracks with different relative volumes, what is the best way to get them adjusted appropriately?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Hi I'm surprised no one has mentioned it isn't a good idea to mix WMA & MP3 in PTE, some time ago I produced a tutorial on how to reduce clipping using Audacity, you may find it useful?

Yachtsman1

[backpack45scb]

You are right. I went back to the source files, and looked at them with Audacity - they also are clipped.

I converted the wma files to mp3 for pte to avoid the mixed type issue.

That still leaves me with my 2nd question. Is there some visual indicator so that I can adjust one track's volume relative to another and see what I've done, or do I just keep playing back the tracks in question till it sounds right?

Thanks again,

[denisb]

i use a Vu meter

For example:

http://www.vuplayer.com/other.php

Denis

[PGA]

In Audacity you could try Effect > Normalize on each clip and then export each clip to a new file. The Normalize effect will set the peak levels of all the clips to the same value (raising or lowering the level of the rest of each clip in proportion). Any significant difference between the clips after normalizing will be the natural dynamic within each of the clips.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

In Audacity you could try Effect > Normalize on each clip and then export each clip to a new file. The Normalize effect will set the peak levels of all the clips to the same value (raising or lowering the level of the rest of each clip in proportion). Any significant difference between the clips after normalizing will be the natural dynamic within each of the clips.

Already said, see post 5.

Yachtsman1.

[jt49]

...

That still leaves me with my 2nd question. Is there some visual indicator so that I can adjust one track's volume relative to another and see what I've done, or do I just keep playing back the tracks in question till it sounds right ...

PTE does not indicate visually what you want to see. PTE does not change the waveforms if you change the volumes via project options or envelopes, and you will not see what happens to the mixed soundtrack. There is a simple workaround to check the final mix: Export the show as a video (perhaps at a low video quality and low resolution in oder to have a quick result). Open the video as an audio clip in Audacity and see if there is any clipping.

Regards,

jt

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Just had another delve through the tutorials I made when 8 was introduced, you may find this one useful.

Yachtsman1.

[backpack45scb]

Thanks to all of you for your very helpful responses. I didn't watch all of post 5 video 1st time around because by then I thought my source was already clipped and therefor unfixable. I tend to resist video tutorials unless I can't find info in written form - too impatient. I went back and viewed entire video, and plan to also view the basic tutorial.

I do have one last thing to try. My original is a cd which I got from Amazon. I ripped it to my pc using Windows Media Player using the lossless wma format. Possibly Windows Media Player is the problem, so I can download the tracks from Amazon Cloud as mp3 then look at the cloud mp3 vs the mp3 I created from the wma file, and see if cloud version also has clipping.

No more questions at this point but will let you know if Windows Media Player did the clipping during ripping.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Thanks to all of you for your very helpful responses. I didn't watch all of post 5 video 1st time around because by then I thought my source was already clipped and therefor unfixable. I tend to resist video tutorials unless I can't find info in written form - too impatient. I went back and viewed entire video, and plan to also view the basic tutorial.

I do have one last thing to try. My original is a cd which I got from Amazon. I ripped it to my pc using Windows Media Player using the lossless wma format. Possibly Windows Media Player is the problem, so I can download the tracks from Amazon Cloud as mp3 then look at the cloud mp3 vs the mp3 I created from the wma file, and see if cloud version also has clipping.

No more questions at this point but will let you know if Windows Media Player did the clipping during ripping.

Hi Ralph

I use Amazon music regularly but usually, only downloads. However I have had duff CD's from Amazon & other sources. Usually, there is excessive clipping or other distortion, whenever I find faults I invariably go back to the source for recompense, usually I get refunded, particularly Amazon. So if it wasn't too long ago you bought the CD, you may get money back or a replacement? As Peter said, it is practically impossible to fix a bad recording, you can make it less noticeable, but never perfect.

Yachtsman1.

Yachtsman1.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

The emails from PTE seem to be slow getting to me at the moment? Just read Ralphs last post by email & picked up on the statement about WMA format which I haven't used as I always use MP3 or WAV & convert mixed formats to MP3 in Audacity. So as things are slow at the moment, I had a look at what EHow says about WMA & their incompatibility with older hardware.

See http://www.ehow.com/about_6104561_wma-vs_-mp3-formats.html

Yachtsman1.

[PGA]

I ripped it to my pc using Windows Media Player using the lossless wma format.

Ralph,

I also use Windows Media Player to rip tracks from CDs - but I rip to WAV format (which is also lossless). I try never to work with MP3 because this is a heavily compressed file format. If you load an MP3 file into a sound editor (in my case Audacity) do some edits on it and then export it as an MP3 file, you add a second lot of compression to the first. This can result in poor quality sound. If you rip the same file as a WAV, take that into such as Audacity, do the same edits and then export as a WAV, you preserve all the original sound quality.

Before you download your tracks as MP3, check what bitrate they are going to be. Many downloadable tracks come as only 128kbps. To get sound quality close to that of WAV files (i.e. CD quality) you need 320kbps MP3s.

Peter

[JEB]

Hi Yachtsman1,

I am always interested in any discussion on audio as I find I spend a considerable amount of time trying to get this correct in my sequences. Selecting the music and writing the script are two time consuming aspects but that is not the reason for my post. I also use Audacity and in particular the techniques that both you and Peter have so well explained, to get the balance between different music sources.

Please don't be offended but I found your voice over in the first of your videos to have a few irritating echoes (e.g. about 1:10, 1:27, 1:40) that weren't in the second video. The second video was much quieter. Could it be that the first was in fact almost clipping? I would be interested in your comments.

Regards

John

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi John

If you are referring to the first couple of the series of tutorials? I was re-acquainting myself with Camtasia screen capture. If you specify which particular ones of the 13 or so on there you are referring to I will check them out. Usually I record a tutorial with Camtasia on the fly so to speak, then edit it. But like anything else in this life if you don't use it you'll lose it, which is what happened with Camtasia. With the Early ones I was adding the screen capture to a PTE show, but this blew up the file size to an unacceptable level. Some of the tutorials have had over 1000 hits & you are only the second one to comment, the first yesterday. One other thought comes to mind, did you stream the videos or download them, sometimes streaming doesn't give the best results.

Eric

Yachtsman1.

[JEB]

Hi Eric,

Sorry, my fault. I thought it would be obvious that I was referring to the two you posted above.

I just clicked on them and let them run in my browser. There is quite a difference between them.

John

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi John

I checked No's 1 to 4 & couldn't detect anything untoward at my end (my PC not YouTube), I'll check the ones in this thread & see if I detect anything other than my Lancashire drawl.

Eric

Yachtsman1.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi John

Used the links in this thread & checked a few minutes of each one but couldn't detect any problems, then specifically at 1.10 1.27 & 1.40 but didn't find anything other than phlegm, congestion & all the other gremlins encountered when making VO's on the fly. By using my method with Camtasia you can't do much about Audio errors, other than import it into Audacity & clean it up, then add it back into Camtasia & suffer sinc' & other problems, mainly time related. If I was selling these tutorials, obviously I would ensure they were as good as I could get them, but with my limited time & resource, that's the best I could do at the time. I did re-do one of the early ones, as it was really bad IMO. However, after the reception they got from above, I spat my dummy out & haven't done any for over 6 months. If I do re-start I will have to re-learn the programme & at the moment have other things on my plate. You may want to try downloading one rather than streaming & see if the faults are still there.

Eric

Yachtsman1.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Out of interest, I have just imported the original video into Audacity & examined the section mentioned, the only thing I could see was a small noise blip between 1.10 & 1.11, no clipping. See screen shot.

Eric

Yachtsman1.