Off topic: Diaporama question

[anthrodoc]

I am gathering from PTE users that this verneralbe slideshow program is somehow related to an earlier ancestor, the "diaporama." I am getting, from comments in various discussions, the impression that there are folks here who, before PTE and computers, were using slideshow projectors in some very creative ways. Was this a known "art" of sorts (i.e. the dual projector setup etc.?) I have in fact used 35 mm slide projectors before, but it seems that my use and familiarity was rudimentary compared to what others have done more formally?

I would love to hear from folks (email would be preferred, so as not to clog this PTE forum) who used diaporamas in creative ways-- how you used it, where, etc. (part of my curiousity as an anthropologist-- to know the ancestry of our current practices, I guess!)

Thanks for any feedback/comments/ information, etc.

Brian

[Ernst]

Hi, anthrodoc:

You have posted a very interesting subject, and I think it is VERY pertinent.

The way we showed slides before and now has changed quiet a lot, at least in my field (university teaching and research) and I would suggest that we stay here discussing about, and not just emailing you (of course we could do both).

I am from that "era"? when the use of slideshows was quiet different and may be not so frequent.

Let me talk about my experience. In the seventies (last century!) I used slideshows (35mm slides) with a projector and synchronization of slide change with pulses issued from a cassette, through a special cassette player that changed these pulses into a change to Next slide.

I never could make it ($$$$) to have two projectors doing soft fading, and other possible effects. I was impressed when I saw it first in an introductory slideshow, synchronized and with music and narration, in a Park in San Diego, CA. And I was impressed thirty years later, when I knew about Igor´s fading effects in PTE shows. What a change! Quiet a change also, going from my old DEC computer (at work) with 4 K of memory the OS taking about 3, FOCAL programming and sometimes setting the system with switches, and then Commodore PET, Vic 20, Commodore 64, and then the present.

Well, back.

I used my shows for different reasons:

To tell about trips and work made (Antarctica, Easter Island, Disneyland, Argentina, Paraguay, Kenya, etc). These were usually long shows. Let´s say, from 20 min to 1 hour. Would sound very boring now, when you have to sit in front of a PC screen watching a show, or even have it on a CD, VCD or whatsoever for that long time. You have to synthetize it, from one hour to 10 minutes? Certainly reducing the number of slides and explanations, and all that. Just images and sound?

But strangely enough, there was time, and people interested in knowing and travelling with you. Of course not so much TV, cable, satellite, internet, wireless home phones, cell phones, CDs, PC. UFF! competing with your life, time, comfort and patience. Good old times?

Preparing these shows was also very entertaining. I used to record sound in the field, edit, mix (sorry to mention, open reel tape recorders, mixers, vinyl records with sound effects and music, scripts, narration. These shows had the advantage that you could show it to large audiences. I remember going with my shows to people in-jail, a monastery, schools, boy-scouts, other communities, student groups, family, etc. These shows were portable (well, yes, in some way portable), sometimes heavy to carry around. Projector, slides (sometimes 100, 200?), cables, spare lamps, tapes, screen. Slide projector were not that expensive, nor the tape recorder/synchronized play. But showing these to people was rewarding and this gathering was also social, in the sense of a few breaks for coffee and cookies, conversation, discussion afterwards, more contacts, more invitations to show the same. One important thing. You could not give your show away, to friends and relatives (make copies of 100-200 slides, music, etc; many of them did not have a projector or possibilities to play synchronized shows)

Well, things have changed quiet a bit.

I no longer show those 35 mm slide shows, well, because the world has changed, is going too fast for this now, and the offer of communication media is too huge.

What to do? Some of the thousands of 35 mm slides are being scanned now. A job that can take more than a life. Synchronization, music, effects? Well, just sit in front of your PC screen, and have it all there.

What to show? Certainly a personal decision. To whom to show it? Well, open.

Where to show? Also open, from PC screen, although maybe the least convenient way to socialize, having usually the smallest spot in the house to keep your PC in your house, and a lot of family and friends, and probably a small monitor screen or a notebook without active screen, where the best angle of viewing will just allow for one person?

In a large auditorium. Well, yes, possible. Get a multimedia projector, and take your notebook, and show. In some communities where you want to share your experiences, they do not have such projector. Buy it yourself? Well, still expensive and the results not so good. Have been using the very good projectors in teaching and they still do not compare to projecting a plain 35 mm through a normal projector on a screen. AND digitize all your old 35 mm to show them through this projector with poor results? Hmmm. I still use lots of slides for teaching purposes. Although I could have them all digitized, to show them with projectores might give mixed results. Even adjusted, I sometimes show green trees that are seen yellow on the screen. Since my classes are on the environment and ecology and not modern art, I prefer the old way for landscapes, detailed graphics and tables that will show as they have been originally built in the nature or conceived in a color graphic.

It is certainly ideal to be able to show this on a CD, and a TV set, in a larger room. There are ways to do and many communitieshave these sets.

Can you give it away? Of course. To give it to people as an executable, a VCD, or other forms. You can upload and download. Well, you can do many things with your production.

Of course things have changed.

I could not come up now with a 45 minute multimedia slide-show and go from here to there. Maybe 100 people in a room?

What to do with huge amounts of slides.

How to distribute?

How long should a show be? Can we discuss each slide, will wehave time for it? Or will we have to make a movie-like show from stills synchronized and faded? Should we synchronize each one for two to four seconds only?

For me, this is confusing sometimes on what to do, how to do it, for what purpose, and how far can you stretch your satisfaction to be doing nice, entertaining and useful work?

Anyway, thanks again, anthrodoc, for allowing me to express some of my feelings, about the evolution you mentioned and invited to discuss. I do not feel old, nor far from digital technology. I am familiar doing this, but still have my concerns on how the best use should be and CAN be with present technology and needs. I am not looking back in nostalgy, to 35 mm slides, noisy projectors, burning of lamps, and all the hassle recording the soundtracks, etc, etc. I am not in any think-tank of the world, but always going with the time as a consumer, and not so much as a creator. What can be expected in digitial multimedia, and shows, and all that, when you will be able maybe soon to have some more sofisticated applications for the magnet on your refrigerator door?

Well, sorry for this may be boring and long post (essay?), but the invitation of anthrodoc was challenging.

Regards

Ernst

[Ian]

In the UK, "diaporamas" are termed "AV Sequences", and there has been a very enthusiastic group making sequences for many years. The UK standard has always been to use two 35mm projectors with built-in triacs linked to an Imatronic dissolve unit. The transitions are achieved by fading one projector into the other, with the dissolves triggered by a pulsed signal on a cassette tape. To achieve perfect synchronisation, the pulse is generally recorded on to track 4 of a cassette so that the stereo soundtrack on tracks 1 and 2 stay locked in position.

Over the last couple of years, there has been a rapid changeover from the traditional slide/tape method to the new digital formats with PTE being the most popular software.

Currently, most AV sequences are still very much in the slide/tape area, but more and more AV'ers are starting to make new sequences digitally. Ultimately, the digital format will replace the slide/tape.

The limiting factor at the moment is the problem of projecting the finished sequence to the audience. As digital projectors fall in price though, they will become more affordable for hobbyist use and this will again increase the rate of changeover to digital.

CBAV have for many years marketed an "all-in-one" twin projector/tape/amplifier system called the Royale, and have now launched a digital "plug'n'play" version that combines a custom-built micro PC, data projector, amplifier and speakers that is a very portable unit.

Having said that, the Slide/Tape medium is very much alive and kicking, and still has an active following in many European countries.

Ian

[ronwil]

I am glad that Ian has added his comments to this one. I had been producing AV Presentations using twin projectors, in my mediocre way, for about 20 years until I converted to digital projection twelve months ago. I had seen the yellowness mentioned by Ernst in digital projection, which put me off following that route, for a while, until I saw the results achieved by the CBAV Royale Digital Projection Unit at a National AV Festival in 2001. This encouraged me to purchase one of the first of these units and since then I have been busy making new sequences and re-making some of my original ones.

I can confirm, therefore, that my roots are in the twin projector method, but digital and particularly PTE has opened up a whole new world in my AV presentations.

Ron [uK]

[alrobin]

This thread is very interesting for me as I have been doing multi-projector shows for years as a hobby, to show to our local Camera Club as well as to other friends and relatives. I even once designed and built a microprocessor-controlled 4-projector controller (in only 4 Kb of RAM!) as at the time I couldn't afford a commercial professional unit. But I only put together two 4-projector shows, as the process was just too time-consuming for what it was worth.

I now have a fancy computer-controlled professional 3-projector unit (after my home-built unit became too tedious to set up, and too tempermental and unreliable to run, especially in front of a large audience.) I use two projectors to achieve a pleasing dissolve between slides, and the third one mainly to overlay titles, comments, and for fast-sequence animation effects.

However, I am smitten by the capability of current digital technology, and may never do another old-fashioned multiprojector show again. With digital, we now have the capability of an unlimited number of virtual projectors.

So, now I, too, have a challenge ahead of me in converting my old electromechanical shows to digital. However, given the capabilities inherent in the new technology, including PTE, I can now add many more interesting features to these shows, and look forward to the process of updating them (as soon as I can find the time).

Ciao,

Al

[Guest guru]

Let me say only one thing, my friends...

I like very much computer presentations, but 35 mm film projections (or more properly "AV Sequences" and "Diaporamas") are still much better as to quality, sharpness, brightness and colour rendition!

[alrobin]

Guido,

I agree with you - for the moment, at least. It's very hard (I almost said "impossible") to beat the colour saturation and density range of projected 35 mm or 2 1/4" transparencies. And they are projectible to much larger sizes than digital images images (i.e. much more information contained in each slide).

But the quality of digital presentations is improving almost weekly, and is already at the point of "respectibility" (mind you, this is all relative, and some will be convinced or impressed less than others.)

But in weighing the odds, one has to consider the ease of production and presentation, as well, and weigh it against the lesser quality and ask whether that quality is good enough for the particular application. In some cases, the real transparencies will win out, but in most, I would venture, the digital image quality is now good enough. I would even say amazingly good, considering where it was this time last year.

There are also several other factors to consider. It is much easier to keep a digital show together - most of my old shows have been "sabotaged" over the years as I have used images from them for other purposes, so I will have a hard time pulling some of them together again. And, the technology used to show them is no longer practical. Some would point out correctly that digital techniques are changing, too, but at least it is usually possible to convert to new digital technologies as they come along. And, given the popularity of digital cameras and scanners, I would venture that jpegs and tiffs are here to stay for a while.

Another factor in favour of digital is the versatility of the medium, and the number of possible applications (e.g. web access, ease of sending to friends and relatives, etc.).

Finally, some of my old slides are showing signs of age (scratches, mould, light damage, colour deterioration, etc.) So, I have no option but to scan them, retouch them as much as possible, and use them digitally from now on.

Just some more food for thought!

Ciao,

Al

[Shirley]

This forum is my "discovery of the day"! I am very new to PTE and struggling. My "ancestry" is also A-V or slide sequences, I have used the Royale for over twenty years and produced numerous shows. There are lots of A-V groups around, not all are related to camera clubs, some are Royal Photographic Society groups, others are regionally based. In Bath we get attendances of 40-50 people for a full day session and its all good fun. In fact my only reason for moving over to digital sequences is that I can no longer lift the Royale...its a heavy beast for an elderly lady! So I am on a new learning curve and struggling a bit. I would like my pictures to fade gently into one another, the transition is jerky and meaningless at present. I know That the magical and elusive "third image" which appears when two suitably chosen slides merge on screen, is not possible with a computer generated show. However what I find most irritating about the PTE programme is that I can only view my pics sequentially. With slides I have a big light-box and can view 200 slides at a time and select the one I want to appear next. With PTE it seems as though I have to remember what each of the 200 is called and what it looks like. Is there something I am missing? Can I put loads of pics, tile-fashion on my screen and shuffle them about? Do I need a different programme to do this? Or shall I just go back to Slide sequences and hire me a porter?? Shirley

[Ian]

Hi Shirley

I'm doing a "digital" demonstration day together with Maureen Albright at the WAVES meeting in Bath on 18th January, so please come along We're going to cover the complete usage of Pictures to Exe and also look at other software packages, plus tips on using Photoshop layers to achieve 'third-image' effects in digital shows.

Look forward to seeing you!!

Ian

[alrobin]

.....using Photoshop layers to achieve 'third-image' effects in digital shows.

Ian,

What a fantastic idea! I had never thought of that! Brilliant! Wish I was a little closer and could come to your presentation too!

I find that if I use very long dissolve times (> 3 sec) I do achieve the "third image" in digital, but it is not as distinct or as smooth as in an old-fashioned slide show. With my "Magician" I can even fade one image off and another one on to half-intensity and leave the third image on-screen for a brief instant. Your suggestion of developing this effect in Photoshop sounds like an excellent solution for digital.

Digital techniques provide for many other imaginative effects not easily achievable using the old technology. It would be interesting to compile a list of all these here in this forum. Do you have any others "up your sleeve"?

All the best,

Al

[HaroldB]

I find that a problem with these pretty fades (even when you are NOT going from very light to very dark or vice versa, which is what I believe generates the flicker), is that you can't easily do a series of continuous fades.

FX, I can not go from slide 1 to slide 2 to slide 3 with all fades. The reason for this is that PTE needs a minimal amount of time to "set up" the picture. In the current PTE version, if you specify a slide duration time such that the duration time minus the transition time is less than the time needed to set up the slide, PTE behaves unpredictably. The net is that you always have to include this time, and since this time varies unpredictably depending on the hardware configuarion that it is executing on, there is no easy to do reliable mutiple sequential fades without leaving the images in an untransitioning state for at least a bit.

If Igor would change the program so that the transition time was automatically shortened to the remaining slide duration time after the picture was already loaded, this would make those kinds of effects very possible and very neat.

I'm hoping it might even be something easy for Igor to do!!

Harold

[Maureen]

Hi everyone and Welcome Shirley.

I find Photoshop an excellent partner for PTE.

I recently completed a sequence which required the images to change from a "dark moonless night" to later showing "dawn inching up".

As I'm not too good at getting out in the middle of the night to take pictures, I 'converted' pictures of a town in daylight into night shots and used Photoshop's lighting techniques to make the light slowly "inch up" a tree.

I need to find out how to upload my sequences onto my own web site or send it up on to another site. At present I think my AVs are too large to e-mail.

Hope many PTE users will think about coming along or sending their work to our Digital AV weekend in March. (see www.avworld.org for information about the Super Southern weekend).

Even if you don't want to enter the Sunday competition you could send work to be shown & shared on the Saturday Digital AV Event.

Best wishes

Maureen

[anthrodoc]

The "third image" concept is an interesting one (and in saying this, I guess I will show further how new I am to all this stuff about processing, shows etc.). If I understand that idea correctly, I have to say that it seems to name what I recenlty saw (maybe for the first time) in Michel's recenlty posted show on Beechbrook. I was quite impressed with the transitions in that show, and how pictures didn't just seem to transition, but to somehow transform into one another, with in-between "morphs" ... Even without this. the digital slideshow is quite exciting in its potential-- our small college has recenlty installed ceiling-mounted lcd projectors, and I am quite excited to get into producing useful shows in some of my classes.

(I also have several sets of slides I am now going to go back to, to see about scanning and converting!)

I am enjoying this discussion, and appreciate all the responses so many have given so far! Thanks!

Brian

[Guest guru]

Just few days ago, during a lesson at Turin University, I made for my students a PTE mini-show with two "third images", and I can assure you the effect is excellent.

I made these images using Photoshop layers at two transparency settings.

[Shirley]

Hello again. Having already found two contributers I already know I feel sure I am among friends, albeit from the old A-V scene! I am interested in Guido`s use of Photoshop Layers and would be grateful of a fools guide to his method. Shirley

[Maureen]

Hi

I recently had someone ask me how to make half returns and dissolves in Pictures to Exe and I emailed him the step by step guide below as he is a novice to Photoshop.

To create half dissolves using pictures to Exe and Photoshop, you need to create a new image using Photoshop.

If your first image was Mickey Mouse and you want to bring in Minnie Mouse in the top right & then take her out - maybe to give the impresssion Mickey was thinking of Minnie at that point..You would need have three images .....

slide 1 one Mickey Mouse,

slide2 second Mickey (same images as the above one) with Minnie in position,

slide 3 third a copy of the first image of Mickey Mouse

(easy to copy an image in Pictures to Exe, or Photoshop etc.)

To create the second Mickey & Minnie image...........

open the image of Mickey & also a new image of Minnie

Make sure both images are flattened before you start

Choose the move tool top right in Photoshop ( looks like a Celtic cross for those unfamiliar with Phshp) Place over the picture of Minnie and drag her picture across & over Mickey, then release your mouse button.

Minnie's picture should now be appearing as as a new layer over Mickey's. (see the layers palete)

You can reposition her in the new image where you would like her to appear using the move tool and also resize to get her into position (i.e. top bar click on edit / transform/ scale then pull in corners)

To rub out parts of Minnie's picture you don't want ..............

make sure Minnie picture layer is highlighted, click on the white circle in the middle of the grey square at bottom of layers box (this adds a layer mask to Minnie's picture layer i.e. big white square)

Then go to the tools down the side and pick the brush tool

you must have the black & white colours in the squares,

IF you pick black you can rub out with your brush on your layer mask

If you change to white as the foreground colour you can paint back in ( and go over any mistakes etc!)

Hope this helps anyone unfamiliar with Photoshop and how to create the old fashioned half returns from the diaporama days!

Working with layers means you never lose information and can always go back etc. To make an image dissolve and create the wonderful new third image effect, apart from using transitions, you can use this method too using the opacity slider to view your third image effect. I assume everyone is already familiar with how to do that.

Apologies to those who already know how to do this - as I had it already typed up yesterday I thought I would post it up for anyone new to this method.

Best wishes to you all

Maureen

(still showing diaporamas regularly!)

www.avworld.org