QUALITY OF CONVERTED.AVI FILES

[orizaba]

1. No doubt PTE is my favorite (and only) software to make AV shows, including editing all included videos. I am only sorry for a 64-bit native version not exists yet. When?

2. However, I am always asking why PTE only accepts the so-called "converted.avi" files, and only avi files made by using PTE converter itself, not an avi file converted using some other converter.

3. This point seams to me somewhat disapointing, as I am sorry that PTE does not accept the original camera files, such as MOV (from Canon, iPhone, etc.). Any conversion of original files always mean a loss of quality, which is much painful.

4. I am attaching a tipical MediaInfo report of a "converted.avi" file, which original was a MOV file from iPhone 5s. I never use the automatic conversion, I always use the manual conversion, introducing "Progressive" and "100%" quality (I have no disk space problems).

5. Assuming that PTE only accepts files from its own converter, question is: would it be possible to have some more parameters to choose, in terms of quality, in order that final quality could be the best possible?

6. I remember that a long time ago I asked this forum which were such conversion parameters as they are used by PTE converter, but I got no answers at all to this respect.

Thanks.   

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Orizaba

I assume you have tried first converting your MOV to a format PTE will accept & switching off the PTE converter when you add it to a show?

Regards Yachtsman1.

[Lin Evans]

"2. However, I am always asking why PTE only accepts the so-called "converted.avi" files, and only avi files made by using PTE converter itself, not an avi file converted using some other converter."

I think perhaps you may be creating an AVI with an unavailable CODEC. PTE works fine for me with AVI files from other sources unless they are "uncompressed" AVI's which are not supported by PTE.

I use Particle Illusion and Blufftitler both to create AVI files with RGBA (alpha transparency) which work fine with no conversion. In fact, converting them with PTE"s converter would remove the transparent alpha channel. I also create AVI files with other software - all with compression - which work fine with PTE so I think something else is going on with your AVI file which are not compatible.

"5. Assuming that PTE only accepts files from its own converter, question is: would it be possible to have some more parameters to choose, in terms of quality, in order that final quality could be the best possible?"

Actually, PTE accepts a number of different file formats - certainly not only from its own converter. I use FLV Flash movies, AVI, MP4, MOV and WMV formats. The purpose of the PTE converter is generally to lower the compression which works much better with an executable output file. Many video codec formats are highly compressed and before playing them, the software must first decompress them in real time. Specialized video players are optimized to do this and that is their only task, but PTE is also doing many other things so to get the best performance, a lightly compressed file makes it much easier on the cpu and gpu

Best regards,

Lin 

[orizaba]

Hi Lin,

2. When I tried by myself to convert original camera files to AVI (not using PTE converter) I always used Wondershare Video Converter Ultimate v 7.4.1, but PTE deals very bad with them, always stoping and starting, etc., it's not possible to work.

5. You say that PTE accepts, for example, MOV format. Well, My Canon 5D MkII produces MOV files and PTE deals very bad with them as well. I am attaching a MediaInfo report of an original MOV file from my iPhone 5s, which PTE neither deals well with it, stoping and starting, etc., not possible to work. Can you find on it something different from your MOV files?

Best regards,

Jose

[Lin Evans]

Hi Jose,

It (the mp4) has a pretty high bitrate which "could" be a problem, but most mp4 files - even the ones PTE creates for HD output are pretty much too compressed for PTE to run smoothly hence the suggestion to convert. It could be that with the new engine for 9.0 and other changes this may be ameliorated in the future. Usually for an MP4 to run smoothly in PTE a full HD (1920x1080) at 30 fps should not be much more than 4,000 kbps to run smoothly. I would think that 17.2 mbps is pretty heavy for a highly compressed MP4 for consumption by PTE. Of course lowering the bitrate and such may make the file much large and one can run into problems in that respect as well. 

I find that most of my AVI files output by Particle Illusions and BluffTitler run pretty smoothly but I try to keep the size down and never use more than 720p. My wmv files run gine and I've never had problems with Flash FLV but of course the quality is less by nature than MP4 H264. I've not noticed a visible difference in the quality of video files converted by PTE to it's own AVI format but admittedly I don't generally use too many super-high quality video clips in my shows so in that sense perhaps my experience and yours differ.

Best regards,

Lin

[orizaba]

Hi Lin,

Thanks very much for your explanations, clear as always.

Just 2 questions about what you said:

- "Of course lowering the bitrate and such may make the file much large..." I thought that it was just the contrary, the higher the bitrate the larger the files. Why is that?

- "I don't generally use too many super-high quality video clips in my shows..." Some reasons for such an option? Shouldn't the final show have a maximum quality? In fact, may be our both purposes differ, mine is not to get an executable file, but an "almost professional" MP4 (or MKV) file to play in my media player to show on a big plasma display at home, or to produce an excellent Bluray disc to offer. My experience says the higher the bitrate the better the fluidity of final product, but, of course, first I need PTE can deal with it.

By the way, when do we expect the version 9.0 comes out? What about the 64-bit native version, do you know something about this?

Thanks again and best regards,

Jose

[Lin Evans]

Hi Jose,

The way I understand it (which may or may not be correct) is that bitrate primarily affects video quality while frame rate affects file size. From this link on the Video Grabber site:  Link here: http://www.videograbber.net/reduce-video-size.html   You may be correct about bitrate and size but it may be compression differences rather that actual bitrate which is causing the larger file size. 

If the video size is not small enough, you could also lower frame rate and bit rate. The frame rate has a lot to do with the file size, which displayed images of a video per second. Lowering the frame rate will directly lead to the decrease of video file size. With regard to the bit rate, it mainly describes video or audio quality. If the video file is compressed at higher bitrate, the higher video quality and larger file size will be, and vice versa. In general, we recommend maintaining the lowest acceptable bitrate and frame rate to preserve quality. (emphasis mine)

The above quote is a bit confusing because what is really being discussed is compression levels. Lower compression usually increases file size if all other factors remain constant. I've not experimented to confirm the actual effect of only lowering bitrate but the last sentence above in the quote from their site "We recommend...." seems to indicate that having too high a bitrate and frame rate negatively affects quality.

Since I usually make executable rather than video for final output, I don't use a great deal of video except for some animations and generally the animated objects are not occupying a major portion of the viewing area. Because of this, I can use less than full HD resolution which preserves file size for the output. I have not been able as yet to make any of my shows with significant amounts of animation look as good in video format as in executable format. 

Hopefully, with version 9 there will be significant changes but we are not aware yet of just how many changes there will be concerning the new graphical engine. None of us have actually seen that yet and will have to wait until the release of the beta which is expected soon. I don't have any information about 32 versus 64 bit but I know that perhaps having to rewrite all the code to make PTE compatible with both MacIntosh and Windows may probably have much to do with current delays in releasing the first betas. 

Best regards,

Lin

[orizaba]

Hi Lin,

Yes, I agree, bitrate and framerate really affect the file size, and the higher (both) the better quality.

The quote "In general, we recommend maintaining the lowest acceptable bitrate and frame rate to preserve quality." doesn't surprise me because the title of the respective article is "How to reduce video file size". However, in terms of video production, or even video to include in PTE, frame rate can not, or should not, be changed. On the contrary, the higher, the better video quality. That's why I always take video at 30 fps, despite Europe beeing PAL (25 fps). Much better fluidity at 30 fps. Either in Canon 5D MkII or iPhone 5s, we can not change bitrate, so, it is what it is. Both produce MOV files, which PTE does not accept, as I said before, so I must convert them to AVI, with PTE converter.

The curious is that the original iPhone 5s MOV file is 17,2 Mbps and the same after PTE conversion to AVI is 23,7 Mbps (please see both MediaInfo reports I attached before). And file size also increased, from 43,7MB to 60,4MB. So, if size and bitrate are greater in AVI (or lower in original MOV), why PTE doesn't accept the MOV? As you say, it must be a problem of CODECs, but I always use the H264 in Wondershare Video Converter. Nevertheless, PTE doesn't accept. I should like very much to know, from Igor and for curiousity only, the exact CODEC and all parameters PTE Converter is using, and which parameters change when we change quality from 0 to 100% in the PTE Converter.

Best regards,

Jose

 

 

[denisb]

Hi Orizaba,

If your final product is an mp4 file and not an exe, you can keep your MOV file in PTE. Of course, the preview is very bad but the final MP4 is very good.

I use sometimes MOV file from my Canon 70D and its fine.

 

 

 

When I want ti create an exe, i create avi files with avidemux : video codec MPEG4-ASP(xvid4) and mp3 codec for audio

Denis

[orizaba]

Hi Denis,

Using original MOV files would be great, however they should be well read in PTE during the edition of the show. I can not edit the video clips if I can not play them in good conditions, not only "guessing" about triming and framing. Anyhow, thanks for your sugestion because I never thought that final PTE MP4 file would be fine. How I would enjoy to use a so great video Bitrate and a so high Bit/Pixel*Frame value!

Regards,

Jose

[denisb]

Hi Jose,

a workaround :

suppose your MOV are MVI_0001.MOV, the name of avi are MVI_0001_converted.avi.

When your slideshow is constructed with the avi video, open a copy of the .pte file with notepad for example and search "_converted.avi" and replace by ".MOV" ; open with PTE and make your MP4.

 

Denis

[orizaba]

Hi Denis,

In fact, an excellent workaround, I think. I can see no reasons why it will not work and I will try it in my next project. Thanks very much.

By the way, are you using this method, meaning that you also care about maximum possible quality?

Regards,

Jose 

[denisb]

6 hours ago, orizaba said:

Hi Denis,

In fact, an excellent workaround, I think. I can see no reasons why it will not work and I will try it in my next project. Thanks very much.

By the way, are you using this method, meaning that you also care about maximum possible quality?

Regards,

Jose 

I used this method for my first slideshow with video. For the maximum possible quality, I also try to use 60 FPS but my TV don't support this framerate(I have only image, not sound)

 

Denis

[davegee]

On ‎28‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 0:54 PM, denisb said:

Hi Jose,

a workaround :

suppose your MOV are MVI_0001.MOV, the name of avi are MVI_0001_converted.avi.

When your slideshow is constructed with the avi video, open a copy of the .pte file with notepad for example and search "_converted.avi" and replace by ".MOV" ; open with PTE and make your MP4.

 

Denis

Denis,

A question if I may:

Why use Notepad?

As an alternative, can you not just substitute the .MOV file(s) for the converted.avi file(s) in O&A / Properties tab?

If you then save the project as a different version then that version can be used to produce the MP4.

 

[denisb]

DG,

if you don't change anything to the video, it works.

But suppose you change start time, duration and speed for the .avi file, , the start time, and speed are correct if you change in the O&A property tab the file and not the duration.

 

And more over there is a bug for duration:

 

Denis

[davegee]

Denis,

I can see a couple of issues.

First, there is a slight difference in the duration of the original MOV file and the converted file (in my trial) which amounts to no more than a couple of frames.

Secondly, when the MOV is substitued for the converted file the start time and the Speed are being honoured but the adjusted (trimmed) end time is not being honoured (as you said). If this is the bug that you refered to then surely, having spotted it, it should have been reported previously - is this the case?

If a converted file is substituted (instead of the MOV) then the same "bug" exists. The previously set End Time is not honoured.

If this "bug" could be rectified then (perhaps) the substitution in the Properties Tab would produce the right result?

[denisb]

Dave,

a video avi 13.160s
The video MOV 13.240s
There is a difference of two frames
Put the avi in PTE and set
-speed 110
-Start time 0:05.000
-Duration   0:05.000

Change the avi by the MOV in the O&A  and you see
-Start time 0:05.000
-Duration   0:12.240
(see my post before)

Of course its impossible and that is the bug. If you develop, you see:
-Start time 0:05.000
-End time   0:12.240
-Duration   0:07.036

PTE calculate the new duration and end time which are correct. I would prefer that PTE let the duration I propose for the avi, but it's not a bug.

Denis

 

 

[davegee]

Denis,

I think that the "bug" is that the "End Time" is not being honoured/recognised.

If you set some parameters that are possible and substitute the MOV for the converted file the End Time seems to always default to the end of the un-trimmed video. It ignores the set End Time.

DG