File List Sort Order wrong

[aplman]

My image files in a PTE project are named according to a scheme YYYY-MMDD-XXX.jpg, for example:

2010-0908-007.jpg

2010-0908-008.jpg

etc.

I needed to insert an extra image file between those two, so I named it 2010-0908-0075.jpg.

I seemed to be unable to find it in the File List  ...  until a frustrating couple of hours later, I discovered the quirk in the sort order that puts

2010-0908-0075.jpg after

2010-0908-071.jpg.

That is clearly not right.  File names are textual in nature, not numeric.

I thank you in anticipation of the fix.

 

[davegee]

Try using 007a, 007b, 007c etc for files between 007 and 008?

[Picsel]

Hello aplman

I tried to reproduce your problem but unforyunately I cant. I Have named some pictures of mine exactly as yours. The file names are not modified by PTE on my side. Could you give us some more détails ?

Best regards

Daniel

[davegee]

Check it out in File Explorer - it is a Windows thing and not a PTE problem.

If you use 0070, 0080, 0090 then 0075 will automatically drop in between 0070 and 0080. However you can only insert 9 files between 0070 and 0080.

When using 007, 008, 009 etc you have to revert to 007a, 007b, 007c for files between 007 and 008. You can then insert (at least) 26 files between 007 and 008.

007aa will automatically follow 007a.

Check it out in File Explorer.

DG

[aplman]

Thank you DaveGee for both responses.  Very interesting!  It's clearly an error in Windows.  I suggest Wnsoft should have PTE do its own sorting properly, to overcome the Windows silliness.  "Sort by File Name" should mean what it says, not "Sort By Silly Windows Sequence".  Meanwhile, I have learnt something  - thanks to you again.  I shall of course follow your excellent suggestion of alphabetic suffixes.

 

Ken T  (aplman)

 

[davegee]

Hi Ken, 

Forgive me , but it is not a Windows "error". It is the File naming standard. As I said, it is not possible to go from a 3 digit file name to a four digit file name without sometimes getting anomalies like the one you encountered.

If you Google "File naming conventions" there is a lot of useful information out there.

DG

[aplman]

Hi Dave ...

Of course I forgive you!  But I cannot agree with you.

No matter how files are named, the name is always a string of characters.  Digits have their place in the sort order, as do letters and other characters.  In a file name, the character 0 (zero) is a character, not a number.  I have no wish to be difficult, nor disagreeable, nor to take a "high horse" position!  But I was a professional software developer for 50 years, and have programmed many different sorting tasks.  File names should be sorted as a character sort.

I shall refrain from using the term "Windows error".  If Windows is behaving as the designers intended, then I shall call it a "Windows Design Flaw".

Cheers!  Ken T.

[davegee]

Hi Ken,

I had no idea of your CV, or what APL Language is/was.

I was speaking merely as a Windows user and as far back as I can remember it has always been so.

Many times in the past I have found that I should have used a four digit numbering system instead of three and that the only way to insert a file, be it in my music or in my photography, is to used an alphabetical suffix.

In its most basic form, if I am numbering music files for a CD, for instance, I cannot use 1, 2, 3 etc up to 20. I must use 01, 02, 03.........20 otherwise when I get to 10 I will be in trouble. If there were 100+ files I would have to use 001, 002, 003 etc.

DG

P.S. the best practical example of this that I can find is the numbering system used in cameras. Files will be numbered 0001 to 9999 before wrapping around to 0001 again i.e. they do not start at 1 and go to 9999.

 

[aplman]

Hi again Dave...

May I thank you for your nicely mild response to my last.  I was afraid I might have offended you.

Anyway, I respect your great knowledge of PTE and will always be happy to learn from you.  What I do need to learn right now is how to respond privately.  I would have preferred to make my previous post private, but could not find the option for that.  Can you steer me in the right direction please?

Best wishes ...

Ken T.

 

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Ken

If you hover your mouse over DG's image you get a pop up with an envelope image, use that. I must say though, PM's are the death of information distribution on the forum, I use them as infrequently as possible.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1,

[davegee]

Hi Ken,

You should see a little "envelope" icon to the top right of the page (you might have to scroll up to the top of the screen).

Click on it and your Inbox will show. Click on "Compose New" and the Message box will appear. Fill in the recipient's name (it should auto complete) and any other recipients you want to receive the message. Give it a title and away you go.

[Ken Cox]

https://library.stanford.edu/research/data-management-services/data-best-practices/best-practices-file-naming

 

http://www.ed.ac.uk/records-management/records-management/staff-guidance/electronic-records/naming-conventions

 

http://guides.lib.purdue.edu/c.php?g=353013&p=2378293

 

use google -- plenty more

 

fyi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language)

the old ken

[davegee]

I think that this is what "might" help Ken (aplman):

http://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-numerical-file-name-sorting-and-enable-classic-literal-sorting-in-windows-xp-vista-and-7-explorer/

[aplman]

Dave, thank you so much for the pointer to that helpful article.  I had no idea I was so far behind the times.  I guess I will skip the registry fiddling, and adapt m thinking to the new world.  Because it is now possible to have Windows sequencing work in two different ways, it might be useful for PTE to cater for the choice in Preferences.   I would obviously opt for Traditional Sort Order, not Intuitive.

Ken T.