Newbie wants to put up an AV for Crit!!

[wideangle]

53 minutes ago, Bizz1963 said:

I think it should be the exact opposite. Critiques should be expected unless you specifically request that you don't want them (why that would be is a mystery to me but it takes all sorts).

The number of people who post slideshows simply to share and enjoy their content with others, by far and away outweighs those who are serious AV users looking for criticism to improve their shows.

The majority just want to present people, places, memories of holidays, family events, specific events etc, and record them for posterity. They are just not interested in their shows being graded or whatever.  Critiques certainly wouldn't be expected.  It is only a minority who are looking for that.

Regards

wideangle

[Tomcatred55]

53 minutes ago, wideangle said:

The number of people who post slideshows simply to share and enjoy their content with others, by far and away outweighs those who are serious AV users looking for criticism to improve their shows.

The majority just want to present people, places, memories of holidays, family events, specific events etc, and record them for posterity. They are just not interested in their shows being graded or whatever.  Critiques certainly wouldn't be expected.  It is only a minority who are looking for that.

Regards

wideangle

Always interesting to hear other people's ideas.

Personally I can't imagine why anyone would sign up to a forum or website specifically for PTE if they just want what you suggest. Why not just share them with your family and friends if that is your attitude to AV?

[Barry Beckham]

Bizz

I don’t believe we are  all that different. I agree with you that we don’t just create AV for competitions and family. It’s much more than that. I has been for me for around 40 years now and I see it as the best way i’ve ever found to present my photography.  Of course we post a slide show hoping it’s received well and anyone who says different is probably not being entirely honest. If not, why post it ????

I don’t care or mind if someone comments on my slide show. I realise that you can’t win them all and even the best movie director misses the mark at times. It’s how it is when your doing something creative. It’s a very fine line we enthusiasts walk between creating something that flies or sinks like a stone.  You have to shrug and accept, you win some and you lose some.

This PC world that makes some too scared to voice an opinion is going to strangle us all if we allow it. 

[Tomcatred55]

To me it is like joining an "owners club" of a car that you own, driving it to a show and NOT wanting people to comment about your car. It just doesn't make any sense, if you aren't competitive and you don't want comments about your work, why are you here?

Sometimes we are too close to our own work to spot a fault and it takes someone else to point it out. That way you learn to be better at making AVs, if the only comments you get are positive ones then you can think that your work is as good as it can be, and that is always doubtful.

[Tomcatred55]

2 hours ago, wideangle said:

The number of people who post slideshows simply to share and enjoy their content with others, by far and away outweighs those who are serious AV users looking for criticism to improve their shows.

The majority just want to present people, places, memories of holidays, family events, specific events etc, and record them for posterity. They are just not interested in their shows being graded or whatever.  Critiques certainly wouldn't be expected.  It is only a minority who are looking for that.

Regards

wideangle

The thing is though "wideangle" people aren't even just saying that they enjoyed others work are they. Not all comments need to be negative, in fact nobody should only be negative about a piece of work. If you don't like something at all THEN you can just say nothing.

[MUR]

Hi 

I think that in a forum as heterogeneous as this, it is not possible to have a single opinion on this topic, but it is possible that what works well in other forums, can also work here,
Two destinations for audiovisuals.

1 Final works, which means this is my work. Final point

2 Work in progress, I want your opinion (which I can accept or not)

For me, criticism is the best way to learn, because teamwork almost always sees more details than the individual. I learn a lot even seeing the criticism of other works,

MUR

[wideangle]

It’s very obvious from previous comments which members have a competitive streak in them....... nothing wrong with that, but don’t assume that everybody should be like you. As I said before, the majority of people post slideshows for the enjoyment of sharing, not for critical comments for improvement. 

5 hours ago, Bizz1963 said:

To me it is like joining an "owners club" of a car that you own, driving it to a show and NOT wanting people to comment about your car. It just doesn't make any sense, if you aren't competitive and you don't want comments about your work, why are you here?

Sometimes we are too close to our own work to spot a fault and it takes someone else to point it out. That way you learn to be better at making AVs, if the only comments you get are positive ones then you can think that your work is as good as it can be, and that is always doubtful.

Bizz1963

As it happens, I do have a classic car and I belong to a car club. I do take it to shows, not with the expectation of looking for comments about it, but to meet up with friends and enjoy seeing other types of vehicles. That’s why I am there. It makes complete sense. 

6 hours ago, Bizz1963 said:

Always interesting to hear other people's ideas.

Personally I can't imagine why anyone would sign up to a forum or website specifically for PTE if they just want what you suggest. Why not just share them with your family and friends if that is your attitude to AV?

Please don’t make these assumptions that people maybe shouldn’t be here unless they are looking for the same things that you are looking for. The forum is much wider-based than that. 

Regards

wideangle

[Tomcatred55]

So "wideangle" are you saying that at your car shows absolutely nobody comments on other people's cars? 

I know that isn't true as I have been to car shows myself.

[wideangle]

Hi Bizz1963

Please take care to read my comment again. I said why I go to car shows and for what reason. I made no comment at all about what other people do. Of course other people make comments about cars, but please don’t generalise what I actually said. 

The same applies to why people join this forum..........for quite different reasons, not just to look for comments about their work.

Regards

wideangle

[Barry Beckham]

Politically Correct

I'm not competitive at all. I only put my images into competitions or post them on social media to bring joy and delight to others. To make up the numbers and ensure everyone has such a fun time. Bad comments on my pictures don't affect me at all, because I am such a delightful and moral person. I am not affected in any way by comment, because I am on a higher moral plane than others. I  post slideshows simply for the enjoyment of sharing and not for comments from others. I don't require feedback that others liked what I produced. 

Reality

Everyone is competitive, we compete throughout our lives and you only need to spend 10 minutes in a busy car park to see how competitive people really are.  The competitive spirit fades with age, but its doesn't disappear entirely. Entering competitions and posting images and slideshows is an ego trip and we may as well recognize this human need for what it is. At least there is an honesty in saying that and accepting that.  

Some people are displaying their images and their photographic skill, some are displaying their expertise with the software, but when I hear it's all done for the sake of sharing. Sorry, I don't buy that because it doesn't match with my experiences. I have been making slide shows for 40 years, but at times I ask a trusted friend to give me feedback on a slideshow or a video project before I post it. I can trust this person not to tell me what he thinks I want to hear.  Sometimes he has said things that give me that sinking feeling. That feeling you get when you know someone has hit on something you missed and you grudgingly have to accept they are right. 

It would be nice to get that sort of feedback on Slideshow Club, which appears designed for that very purpose, but my personal view is that we are all now so scared of offending someone we say nothing.  How many of us want a back slapping club, where every time something is posted,  members queue up to tell the author how wonderful it all was. Give praise where it's due, but if something has missed the mark then it should be OK to express that view too. Who knows, that view might just be right !!!!

Personally I'm tired of hearing “beautiful images” when they are clearly not beautiful and everyone knows that. Its dishonest.  

IMHO of course :-) I'm probably talking nonsense, but here's the important part. You can ignore it :-) 

[Tomcatred55]

Excellent post Barry, spot on.

[jkb]

In my view, whatever type of show you produce it needs to 'say' something to the viewer to work. If it doesn't then it has failed whatever level you are aiming for.

Maybe the lack of comments on some shows is because they failed to 'speak' to the viewer.

Even if you are just displaying your images to a piece of music, if the right music is chosen that compliments them and the images displayed in some sort of order rather than just 'as taken' then it will 'say' a lot more to the viewer.

If it is a piece of animation, again it needs to 'say' something, other than look at how clever I am!

Personally I enter competitions to have my work shown to a wider audience on a big screen with good sound. If the judges happen to think it worthy of a prize - very rare ☺ - then great that is a bonus.

Judging, Organising and being on the technical team for many AV events and competitions I get to see a lot of work and obviously have my own thoughts about it. When judging I have to give comments, I always start off with something good, then try to point out in a positive way where perhaps it could be improved. Then try to also finish with a good point.

Critique should never be negative, but also shouldn't say something is wonderful when it isn't. 

These shows are our 'babies' that can take many months to produce. We all need some praise, but also need some honest critique to help bring out the best we have to offer.

I think the big problem with Slideshow club is that you have download to view them, which I don't always want or have time to do.

Perhaps if it could have two sections, one for video files that you can watch online and another for those that need to be downloaded.

Maybe more people would feel inclined to comment if they can watch online.

Jill

[davegee]

Jill,

After uploading an exe, a link can be inserted in the description to embed a video alongside (underneathe) the exe download link. So two different sections are not really needed?

DG

 

 

[Tomcatred55]

8 hours ago, davegee said:

Jill,

After uploading an exe, a link can be inserted in the description to embed a video alongside (underneathe) the exe download link. So two different sections are not really needed?

DG

 

 

I'm still desperately trying to work out how to do that. I can't, as yet, upload AVs to YouTube or Vimeo so can't post a link to those. I have put a couple of AVs on Facebook but can't work out a way to post a link to them.

Any help would be appreciated.

[jkb]

normally you would just right click on a link & select copy Link location & then paste (CTRL+V) onto the page where you want it to appear.
I assume this works the same for a Facebook show.

Jill

[Tomcatred55]

6 hours ago, jkb said:

normally you would just right click on a link & select copy Link location & then paste (CTRL+V) onto the page where you want it to appear.
I assume this works the same for a Facebook show.

Jill

You would think so wouldn't you but I'm damned if I can find a URL for a Facebook page on my phone.

[Barry Beckham]

Maybe the lack of comments on some shows is because they failed to 'speak' to the viewer.

I think there is some truth here, but I find this difficult to accept as a total reason for lack of comment in SSC because it would suggest that practically everything posted failed to speak to the viewer.  That would be quite depressing if true.

Personally I enter competitions to have my work shown to a wider audience on a big screen with good sound. If the judges happen to think it worthy of a prize - very rare then great that is a bonus.

Surely if you want to get a slideshow to a wider audience I'm not sure an AV competition is the best way to do it. Even a well attended AV event is not likely to get anything like the views that posting on YouTube, Vimeo and SlideShow Club will get.

Can we be more honest and accept that in an AV competition we are looking to see how we do against other AV enthusiasts, but also to promote ourselves and our photography too. 

As far as I can see, there is no evidence of any negative comments on slideshow club that may deter anyone wishing to make a comment.  I'm sure there is one somewhere, but try finding it. This cannot be a reason why people are reluctant to comment.

Take just the latest page of Slide Show Club where there are about 25 sequences posted.  There were 11120 views of the slideshow pages. That resulted in 1614 downloads. So as long as my maths is right. Only 14% of those who viewed the page and description followed through and downloaded the show.  Of those 1614 downloads only 40 comments were received. Less than 2.5% 

Are there conclusions to be drawn from these statistics? I think we could hazard a guess from how many page views relate to a download. (14%) Perhaps people really do want to click and watch the show on that page as Igor demonstrated only recently and they are not so keen to download one first. We live in an instant world and a download of 5 minutes seems slow to some perhaps.

With regard lack of comments. I suspect it's much more nuanced than anything we could simply explain. I think we could all hazard some pretty good guesses and the feeling of: - What's the point if all it will do is upset the author is a valid one.  Maybe if a few of us jumped in and started making more comments, perhaps others would be encouraged too. If you see that no-one ever, or almost never comments, that's a pretty good reason not to perhaps.

 

[Tomcatred55]

Another excellent post Barry.

Two problems I encounter on Slideshowclub. Firstly I have still failed to work out how to post an instantly viewable MP4 (I don't put my shows on YouTube, yet, and I've never even heard of Vimeo).

The other issue is finding the "comments" button. It appears on the main page but when you click on a show to view it the button isn't there (unless I need new glasses).

[Barry Beckham]

Your going to need to post a video on YouTube. It’s not hard once you have done it once and then it’s a simple matter of getting your YouTube video playing and copying the link at the top left of the page into the comments section of slideshow club or even into a page like this. Paste it in, hit enter and the video pops us here, or in slideshow club.

We seem to be moving away from downloading slideshows very rapidly. This has always been the standard thing to do for some years now, but it looks like it’s going the way of the Dodo.  I’m currently building a new website and unless something appears that I have not foreseen, I’m only going to post mp4 videos of my slide shows. They are already up on YouTube waiting to be linked to my new site.

it could be argued that we could create slideshow club here with another forum topic and just allow embedded videos from other sources like YouTube and Vimeo

[davegee]

Linked/Embedded from Facebook (Example just to prove feasibility). The next question is: Is the quality of a Facebook derived Video any better or worse that YouTube/Vimeo?

 

[goddi]

Greetings,

I have used Slideshowclub and YouTube and Facebook to post my PTE slideshows. Each as its pros and cons.

Nice thing about Slideshowclub is the site is specifically pointed to users of PTE and a good place to see what other PTE users are creating. However, there is the need to download the show first and, as mentioned, you don’t get many, if any, comments.

YouTube is a nice way of posting your slideshows but I have not found a way to easily keep them as a group on a single page. I am sure there is a way but I just have not yet figured it out. The good thing about YouTube is you don’t have to ‘sign up’ or register to see anything posted on YouTube.

So, I went to Facebook. I have found this to be the easier solution. I can upload my slideshows as MP4s and keep all of my shows in my Facebook page. Quality is very good. I can get comments (from ‘friends’ registered on Facebook) and have control over most of what goes on with the page. And it can be only my postings on my page. It is easy to copy/paste a link to any of your Facebook slideshow postings to share with anyone (right-click on the specific video and select 'Copy video URL at current time').

The big problem with Facebook, however, is that you have to have established an account on Facebook in order to view my videos (I think). So if I send a link to a slideshow on my Facebook page to you, and you have never signed up on Facebook, I don’t think you can simply view the slideshow. Many of my friends don't want to deal with Facebook.

For example, here is a link to one of my PTE shows on my Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/gary.oddi/videos/10213069884976029/?t=0

And here is a link to my entire Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/gary.oddi

Let me know if you can view either links if you don’t have a Facebook account. Even though I have set the shows to ‘Public’, I think it is still only viewable for people with a Facebook account. I haven’t  been able to test this theory out yet.

The other problem with posting our shows on YouTube or Facebook is you have to be careful with the music you use. They will get after you for copyright infringement. That is the nice thing about Slideshowclub. You can use the music that you want without this problem. Background music is one of the most critical components of a show, I believe, so sometimes you have to compromise which music you use with YouTube and Facebook.

But it is easier, for me at least, to post everything on Facebook for ‘friends’ to view. But I won’t be able to get real critical comments from PTE users, which would be helpful.

One last thing. My Facebook page used to show the ‘number of views’ for each slideshow. Last week, the number of views disappeared.  I haven’t figured out yet why this happened or how to get them back. If anyone knows, please let me know.

Gary

 

 

[tom95521]

Hi Gary,

I don't have a facebook account. I can view the complete video but I can't see your facebook page. I am anti-facebook due to their data mining of personal information so will never subscribe.

Tom

[davegee]

 

[goddi]

14 minutes ago, tom95521 said:

Hi Gary,

I don't have a facebook account. I can view the complete video but I can't see your facebook page. I am anti-facebook due to their data mining of personal information so will never subscribe.

Tom

Greetings Tom,

Thanks for the reply. Interesting you (and I now see Dave did) could see the individual video link, but not my Facebook homepage. Did not know that was possible. But I don't understand what personal information might be on Facebook that makes people anti-facebook. I guess it depends on how much you put on the page. I don't put any personal info except email address and birth date (not sure why I put that). So there is probably less info about me on Facebook than most other places. Am I missing something? I understand the need to reduce our personal data out there, but, for me, I only use it for posting PTE shows, and not much else. Maybe I am living dangerously????

So maybe I can embed links to my individual Facebook shows on the Slideshow club site(?).

Gary

[davegee]

1 hour ago, goddi said:

Greetings,

YouTube is a nice way of posting your slideshows but I have not found a way to easily keep them as a group on a single page. I am sure there is a way but I just have not yet figured it out. The good thing about YouTube is you don’t have to ‘sign up’ or register to see anything posted on YouTube.

Gary

 

 

Home - My Channel?

DG