Modifiers

[davegee]

Modifiers seem to be back in the limelight so I thought that I would update an old 2017 Tute/Style and add a new Tute.

 

[JudyKay]

That is amazing.  I almost grasp it.  I still end up using trial and error.  There is HUGE potential there.  I still dream of simplification,  a simple 3D bezier curve.  Lay points on a 3D space.  Arrange the curves between them and then have an object follow that path.  

[davegee]

Added a couple of examples with Phase attributes.

DG

[Igor]

Dave,

Thanks for the excellent demonstration of Modifiers!

[Barry Beckham]

I also like the demos, but I would also like to see some practical uses of the modifiers, like the Album Slide Style. I will admit that I can't seem to come up with anything myself and I have been trying.

Would love to be pointed in the right direction by anyone who has some ideas. 

[goddi]

Greetings,

The demos are good to see what can be done. However, I still don't understand what the inputs mean. For example, Animation Speed gives you Accelerate, Slow Down and Smooth. Each comes up with their own default settings for 'Accel.time (%)', 'Decel. time (%)', 'Start speed', and 'Final speed'.

I don't understand how to interpret or use these settings. It would be very helpful if someone would get an explanation on how these inputs work. For example, the percentage. What does the % inputs represent or what does it do? Same for Start speed and Final speed. I have tried to play with these inputs but without some basic understanding of what they are supposed to be doing, it has been just frustrating. So, any help in understanding how to use these inputs would be appreciated.

Gary

[davegee]

BB,

I don’t see how modifiers would fit into your style of av. Maybe someone else has some ideas.

I posted a couple of ideas, one of which Lin is currently using, but it seems to me that the user must find the need to animate an object and THEN ask if modifiers can make the animation easier. My swap ct came about that way.

DG

[Barry Beckham]

I think your first line may be correct and while that thought has occurred to me, I have been reluctant to admit that. Many times in the past I have been guilty of ignoring things that later I see were due a bit more attention. I suppose I have been waiting for the inspiration here.

like most modern software, not every aspect and possibility within it, is used by all, far from it. 

Given all the hard work Igor has put in to create Modifiers, I feel a little guilty I can’t come up any any spectacular uses.

[goddi]

How about this? I want a Pan to start out slowly and end slowly. I seem to be able to make it end slowly with just the default Slow Down but I can't seem to make it start slowly.  Any ideas? Is the % indicating the % along the time of the slide when to start the slow down? How do you do it for the beginning of the pan? Do you use Accel. and Decel. for this to happen?

Gary

[davegee]

Does not the SMOOTH setting do EXACTLY that?

It is designed to start and end slowly/smoothly.

Alternatively, split the pan with an intermediate kf and put Accelerate in the first half and Slow Down in the second. But hey, that is what SMOOTH does!

If the default setting is too fast/slow you can change both figures and maintain a Smooth animation but keeping both figures equal is advisable.

DG

 

[Lin Evans]

Gary,

Open an image and set your two keyframes for the beginning and end of the pan. Set the display time to something rather long like 20 seconds so you can have a chance to see what is happening. The default is a linear pan which means the acceleration is virtually instantaneous for the start and the speed of pan is very linear and the deceleration is quick so there will be more or less a jerk at the beginning and a sudden stop at the end.

To do what you want you need to click on the first keyframe then on pan "add modifier" "custom" ...  The default settings are 50, 50, 0, 0.  This means the start time for the animation is at the very beginning (zero) and the  end time is at the very end (zero). You will see that the beginning of your pan is very slow, with a gradual acceleration and linear pan, then a slow deceleration. If you increase the 50 to say 100 at the beginning, you will see a very, very slow start gradually building to a very fast pan followed by a slow down to stop. Change the second number to 100 also and the pan will start slowly then literally "jump" through the main part of the image then slow. So 50, 50, 0, 0 is what you want to get the effect you are inquiring about. 

The best way to learn is to experiment but only with one variable at a time so you don't get confused about which is doing what...

Best regards,

Lin

[Igor]

1 hour ago, Barry Beckham said:

I think your first line may be correct and while that thought has occurred to me, I have been reluctant to admit that. Many times in the past I have been guilty of ignoring things that later I see were due a bit more attention. I suppose I have been waiting for the inspiration here.

like most modern software, not every aspect and possibility within it, is used by all, far from it. 

Given all the hard work Igor has put in to create Modifiers, I feel a little guilty I can’t come up any any spectacular uses.

Barry,

Earlier before PTE 9 we had only Speed parameters (time modifiers). Our idea was to introduce universal modifiers which can change any animation parameters, including Speed. In future version I plan to intensively use modifiers for future Slide styles. We have an idea of a couple new modifiers which will allow to create new impressive effects (PTE 10 or PTE 11).

A modifier(s) is really useful when it can help to replace more complex animations created in many keyframes using 1-2 modifiers. Of course, it's not always possible.

Look at my demo which I created using modifiers. Each snowflake uses modifiers to create a random unique motion. Also you can see a pulsing light in windows of the house:

https://files.wnsoft.com/picturestoexe/demos/Snow-Dissolve.zip

https://files.wnsoft.com/picturestoexe/demos/Snow-Dissolve-src.zip

[goddi]

2 hours ago, Lin Evans said:

Gary,

Open an image and set your two keyframes for the beginning and end of the pan. Set the display time to something rather long like 20 seconds so you can have a chance to see what is happening. The default is a linear pan which means the acceleration is virtually instantaneous for the start and the speed of pan is very linear and the deceleration is quick so there will be more or less a jerk at the beginning and a sudden stop at the end.

To do what you want you need to click on the first keyframe then on pan "add modifier" "custom" ...  The default settings are 50, 50, 0, 0.  This means the start time for the animation is at the very beginning (zero) and the  end time is at the very end (zero). You will see that the beginning of your pan is very slow, with a gradual acceleration and linear pan, then a slow deceleration. If you increase the 50 to say 100 at the beginning, you will see a very, very slow start gradually building to a very fast pan followed by a slow down to stop. Change the second number to 100 also and the pan will start slowly then literally "jump" through the main part of the image then slow. So 50, 50, 0, 0 is what you want to get the effect you are inquiring about. 

The best way to learn is to experiment but only with one variable at a time so you don't get confused about which is doing what...

Best regards,

Lin 

Lin and Dave,

Thanks. Yes, I see that my problem in perceiving what was going on was that I did not have a long enough slide time. Once I increased the slide time, it made more sense. I got the Pan to work with Smooth. Then I added a Zoom with Smooth. The Smooth was added to the first KF for the Zoom. Worked well. I'm getting to see some light. However, I'd still like to know what are the attribute's measuring. What is the 50 vs. the 26? or the Start's 0 vs. 10? Percents of the slide time? 50 of what? 26 of what? What are Start and Final speed's inputs measurements or measuring?

I also just notice something strange. If I am working with the Smooth Accel. at 26, and change it to 50, it changes to 'Speed'. If I change the 50 back to 26, it stays 'Speed'. I don't get it.

Gary

[davegee]

2 hours ago, goddi said:

Percents of the slide time? 50 of what? 26 of what? What are Start and Final speed's inputs measurements or measuring?

Do you REALLY need to know? What is important is that you know the effect of what you are doing. If you search for posts on ANIMATION SPEED by IGOR you will find that he explained the formulae on which these speeds are based when they were introduced at the beginning of V9 . I didn't help me and I rapidly forgot them, but I know what to expect when I fiddle with the parameters by having experimented with them.

Try this Style and play around with the settings for Frame 2 Blue - Second KF.- you will learn more that way. What you should observe is the VERTICAL progress of the Blue Rectangle - its Horizontal Progress is LINEAR. The RED rectangle gives a LINEAR/LINEAR Comparison.

Animation Speed 3.ptestyle

2 hours ago, goddi said:

I also just notice something strange. If I am working with the Smooth Accel. at 26, and change it to 50, it changes to 'Speed'. If I change the 50 back to 26, it stays 'Speed'. I don't get it.

When you changed the parameter you moved into the "custom" settings - it will stay in the "Custom" settings until you exit and return to the "Smooth" Setting - it is not "Smooth Acceleration" it is just SMOOOOOOOOTH.

DG

[davegee]

Barry,

Maybe this would be suitable for conventional AV or for a beginner who just wants an Auto Zoom effect. It Zooms into an Image without the need for a second KF.

ZOOM - ONE KF.ptestyle

ZOOM - ONE KF - 25.ptestyle

ZOOM - ONE KF - 50.ptestyle

ZOOM - ONE KF - 100.ptestyle

DG

[goddi]

2 hours ago, davegee said:

Do you REALLY need to know? What is important is that you know the effect of what you are doing. If you search for posts on ANIMATION SPEED by IGOR you will find that he explained the formulae on which these speeds are based when they were introduced at the beginning of V9 . I didn't help me and I rapidly forgot them, but I know what to expect when I fiddle with the parameters by having experimented with them.

Try this Style and play around with the settings for Frame 2 Blue - Second KF.- you will learn more that way. What you should observe is the VERTICAL progress of the Blue Rectangle - its Horizontal Progress is LINEAR. The RED rectangle gives a LINEAR/LINEAR Comparison.

Animation Speed 3.ptestyle

When you changed the parameter you moved into the "custom" settings - it will stay in the "Custom" settings until you exit and return to the "Smooth" Setting - it is not "Smooth Acceleration" it is just SMOOOOOOOOTH.

DG

===========================================

Yes, I really want to know and understand what the empirical values of the parameters mean. What should I expect the action to be if I choose 26 vs. 29, for example? If you are not sure what a change in an parameter will do, you can spend all day trying to come up with the action you are trying to create. And what about Start and Stop? What are they supposed to do?

When you say, if you change the parameters, you move into the "Custom" settings. But why does the heading of 'Animation Speed: Smooth' change to 'Animation speed'? Can't we make an adjustment to 'Animation Speed: Smooth' and stay in that setting? I don't want 'Speed' but that is what it is saying. Confusing.

I searched for a post on ANIMATION SPEED by IGOR and did not find what you might be referring to. However, I did find this post by Jevans with a similar question as I have posted. His post was Nov. 24, 2016 and there was no solution to his questions. I have not found an explanation or answer yet that makes the parameters understandable.

Gary

 

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gary,

If you choose a wide aspect image such as 16:9 aspect ratio and set the time for 60 seconds of display, use about a 200% zoom at start and finish you can see what is going on. Set the end of the pan to one minute and the start at zero. The start and stop values mean how much of the total timeline is devoted to acceleration and how much to deceleration.  So 50 and 50 with 0,0  means that the acceleration begins at the start of the display and ends at 50% of the timeline when deceleration begins. Deceleration then ends at the end of the timeline with zero movement.

The "start speed" indicates the percentage of overall speed of movement for this pan animation which will be used at the start. The "end speed" indicates the percentage of overall speed of movement which will be used in the portion of pan indicated with the stop value. Everything is predicated on the display time of the side. If you manipulate these values one at a time using the one minute display time with a 16:9 aspect ratio zoomed in to about 200% you will be able to see what's going on when you change values.

Best regards,

Lin

[davegee]

49 minutes ago, goddi said:

Yes, I really want to know and understand what the empirical values of the parameters mean. What should I expect the action to be if I choose 26 vs. 29, for example? If you are not sure what a change in an parameter will do, you can spend all day trying to come up with the action you are trying to create. And what about Start and Stop? What are they supposed to do?

If you read further down it explains (?) that the Animation Speed curves are based on Splines Theory. Now if you really want to know..........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spline_(mathematics)

DG

[goddi]

1 hour ago, davegee said:

If you read further down it explains (?) that the Animation Speed curves are based on Splines Theory. Now if you really want to know..........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spline_(mathematics)

DG

Thanks Dave but polynomial interpolation is, I believe, are beyond the scope of how we should understand how the parameters work in modifiers. I'll pass on trying to understand them.

 

Gary

[jt49]

Referring to splines and the mathematics behind them cannot be regarded as helpful. What we need is a graphical description. We had it for the speed parameters in the old versions. I asked for it in the said thread from November 2016. And this is what Igor replied (November 28, 2016): We plan to add a graphic for better understanding how it works. So, let us hope  that WnSoft will manage to offer a better interface for the speed settings.

[goddi]

1 hour ago, Lin Evans said:

Hi Gary,

If you choose a wide aspect image such as 16:9 aspect ratio and set the time for 60 seconds of display, use about a 200% zoom at start and finish you can see what is going on. Set the end of the pan to one minute and the start at zero. The start and stop values mean how much of the total timeline is devoted to acceleration and how much to deceleration.  So 50 and 50 with 0,0  means that the acceleration begins at the start of the display and ends at 50% of the timeline when deceleration begins. Deceleration then ends at the end of the timeline with zero movement.

The "start speed" indicates the percentage of overall speed of movement for this pan animation which will be used at the start. The "end speed" indicates the percentage of overall speed of movement which will be used in the portion of pan indicated with the stop value. Everything is predicated on the display time of the side. If you manipulate these values one at a time using the one minute display time with a 16:9 aspect ratio zoomed in to about 200% you will be able to see what's going on when you change values.

Best regards,

Lin

Lin, That helps a bit. When I play around with different parameters, sometime the image moves to the left a bit and exposes a little of the black background, when it does not with the default 26,26. Even with different parameters, the difference is so slight, it is hard to tell what the difference is.

With Smooth 26,26,0,0, I see the ending effect more so than the beginning. If I wanted the zoom or pan to start even more slowly, what should the parameter be set to? I can't seem to get a slower accel.

I still don't see the use of Start and Final Speed. I play with them but I don't see its effects, except sometime it also makes the image move a bit to the  left and exposes a bit of the black background.

Thanks... Gary

[Lin Evans]

Gary,

Use the "custom" defaults of 50,50,0,0  - this will produce the effect you are looking for. Don't use smooth - use "custom" with the defauts...

Lin

[goddi]

50 minutes ago, Lin Evans said:

Gary,

Use the "custom" defaults of 50,50,0,0  - this will produce the effect you are looking for. Don't use smooth - use "custom" with the defauts...

Lin

Lin, I have gone back and forth, viewing the Smooth 26,26,0,0 vs the Custom 50,50,0,0 and I don't see the difference in the Accel. Speed. They look the same to me. I'd like a really gradual start to a zoom or pan but can't quite get there.

But thanks... Gary

[Lin Evans]

Gary,

Keep in mind that EVERYTHING has to happen within the selected display time. To get a much slower start and slower finish you have to have a longer display time because if you choose a value like ten seconds for the display. The slow start, linear pan and slow finish all have to be competed within that 10 second period.  If you choose 20 seconds for the slide display, the start and finish can be twice as slow, etc.  If you were to choose something like 80,80,0,0 then the start would be very slow and the finish very slow, but the middle part of the pan would have to be faster because everything must be completed within the selected time frame...

Best regards,

Lin

[goddi]

15 minutes ago, Lin Evans said:

Gary,

Keep in mind that EVERYTHING has to happen within the selected display time. To get a much slower start and slower finish you have to have a longer display time because if you choose a value like ten seconds for the display. The slow start, linear pan and slow finish all have to be competed within that 10 second period.  If you choose 20 seconds for the slide display, the start and finish can be twice as slow, etc.  If you were to choose something like 80,80,0,0 then the start would be very slow and the finish very slow, but the middle part of the pan would have to be faster because everything must be completed within the selected time frame...

Best regards,

Lin

Lin...Yes, I get that concept now. I see that a longer slide time is required the see the slower accel. time. I guess I was hoping for a way to effect only the beginning of the zoom or pan even though the rest of the action might need to be speeded up. As you say, it has to happen within the selected display time. I'll just have to  play with it  more. Everything is  relative to the display time.

Thanks... Gary