Question on output format

[Paul L]

As posted elsewhere I am still in trial period.

I use Pinnacle Studio as video editor and render my projects for watching on a UHD TV.

Used settings in Studio that fit my TV build-in video player are:

1. Codec H264/AVC

2. Resolution 3840x2160

3. Fps 25 progressive

4. Bitrate 40 Mbps

Is such setting available in AV Studio Pro please?

 

[orizaba]

Yes. Go to 'Publish Show', choose Custom, and introduce parameters you want.

Why 25 fps progressive? Why not 60 fps progressive? Much better (bigger MP4 file). 40 Mbps is ok.

And you should try AV Studio Pro to edit your movies! It is the best movie editor! And you can add all moving graphics, texts, etc. you want.

Jose

[Tonton Bruno]

I'm not a specialist but it seems possible.

[Paul L]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Quote

Why 25 fps progressive? 

Because I am in PAL land and the max fps my TV supports when using 3840x2160 UHD and H.264 codec is 30 fps.

When I reduce resolution to 1920x1080 TV supports up to 60fps.

With HEVC (H.265) codec, TV supports up to 4096x2160 at 60fps with 80Mbps. 

But my HW doesn't support HEVC encoding and I wonder if AV Studio 10 Pro does.

 

Meantime I did a test and exported the sample project with the settings as per TonTon Bruno 's screenshot (except that I used 20000 bitrate and had Lossles compression checked)

The exported files doesn't play on my PC system, not with WMP nor with Films and TV app.

My TV recognizes the file but it plays it completely scrambled.

It looks like, when using AV Studio 10 Pro, I'll have to stick with a max resolution of 1920x1080 and that's quite disappointing because my source files are mostly 4032x3024 for stills and 3840x2160 for video. 

[orizaba]

So, keeping your resolution, try to us use 30 fps progressive instead of 25 fps progressive.

Concerning your test, try not use Lossless compression. File should play on PC, WMP, etc., and on TV not scrambled at all.

[Paul L]

Thanks for the quick answer.

Will try your suggestion asap.

Can't test on TV right now, wife is watching her favorite show. 

BTW, 25fps is standard framerate for PAL.

[Paul L]

Ok, new export test with same settings as before but with "Lossless compression" unchecked.

File now plays fine with WMP.

Will see what happens on TV tomorrow.

Oh and there doesn't seem to be a way to save a set of custom settings as a new preset and give it a suitable name.

I might perhaps enter a feature request for that.

 

[jt49]

Did you try the video export (50fps or 60fps) at very high quality or even lossless, not for playing on your TV, but for transcoding to HEVC using HandBrake (or XMedida Recode)?

[orizaba]

5 hours ago, Paul L said:

BTW, 25fps is standard framerate for PAL.

Yes, PAL is 25 fps, but your TV is able to play a file at 30 fps, as you said before.

[Paul L]

12 hours ago, jt49 said:

Did you try the video export (50fps or 60fps) at very high quality or even lossless, not for playing on your TV, but for transcoding to HEVC using HandBrake (or XMedida Recode)?

Tried it, problem however is that it looks like Handbrake doesn't allow the combination of H.265 with 3840x2160. It reduces res to 1920x1080.

XMedia Recode is new for me, had a quick look at it but didn't try it.

[Paul L]

10 hours ago, orizaba said:

Yes, PAL is 25 fps, but your TV is able to play a file at 30 fps, as you said before.

Correct and I think I am going to stay with H.264 3840x2160 at 30 fps.

[jt49]

1 hour ago, Paul L said:

Tried it, problem however is that it looks like Handbrake doesn't allow the combination of H.265 with 3840x2160. It reduces res to 1920x1080.

XMedia Recode is new for me, had a quick look at it but didn't try it.

It is known that Handbrake cannot upscale. But if the original Video is 3840x2160, Handbrake can trancode it to a HEVC-video with the same frame rate and the same dimension (3840x2160). I have just made a test, choosing constant quality, RF=18. Remark: I would recommend to choose "Always use mp4" in: Preferences > Output Files.

[Igor]

Hi Paul,

Did you try to produce a video with a preset 3840 x 2160, High quality, 60p?

This file should be supported  by your 4K TV.

Choosing High quality option or "Quality" mode as 100% (in the Custom preset) should give better visual results than setting a fixed bitrate mode. With "Quality" mode the encoder better and smarter uses video bitrate for different kinds of scenes. Also in Quality mode, the encoder will not exceed 60 mbit bitrate for better compatibility with a wide range of 4K TVs.

 

[Paul L]

31 minutes ago, jt49 said:

It is known that Handbrake cannot upscale. But if the original Video is 3840x2160, Handbrake can trancode it to a HEVC-video with the same frame rate and the same dimension (3840x2160). I have just made a test, choosing constant quality, RF=18. Remark: I would recommend to choose "Always use mp4" in: Preferences > Output Files.

Sorry, but I can't get Handbrake to output 3840x2160 with HEVC H.265 codec. It always reverts to 1920x1080.

Use HB version 1.3.1 which is the latest IIRC and tested with a AV Studio 10 exported mp4 file (sample project) 3840x2160, 20Mbps and 25 fps. 

[Paul L]

51 minutes ago, Igor said:

Hi Paul,

Did you try to produce a video with a preset 3840 x 2160, High quality, 60p?

This file should be supported  by your 4K TV.

Choosing High quality option or "Quality" mode as 100% (in the Custom preset) should give better visual results than setting a fixed bitrate mode. With "Quality" mode the encoder better and smarter uses video bitrate for different kinds of scenes. Also in Quality mode, the encoder will not exceed 60 mbit bitrate for better compatibility with a wide range of 4K TVs.

 

Not yet, will try that and report back asap.

[jt49]

33 minutes ago, Paul L said:

Sorry, but I can't get Handbrake to output 3840x2160 with HEVC H.265 codec. It always reverts to 1920x1080.

Use HB version 1.3.1 which is the latest IIRC and tested with a AV Studio 10 exported mp4 file (sample project) 3840x2160, 20Mbps and 25 fps. 

I use the same version of HB

Settings for transciding:

Properties of HB's output

 

Input properties

 

[Paul L]

Sorry JT49 I started with the wrong Preset.

Needs to be Production Max as shown in your added screenshot. Thanks for that.

It's transcoding while I write this but it's veeery slow, will take more than 35 mins for the 2.30 mins sample project.

[Paul L]

Ok here are the results of several tests I did with different settngs in order to find a good compromise between quality/file size/encoding speed that results in a file that my (4+years old) 55" UHD TV likes. Project used is the sample project.

1. Using PTE AV Studio 10 Pro trial:

1.1 Settings as per Igor 's advice above (H264 - 3840x2160 - Quality mode 100%) with 60fps framerate: File doesn't play on TV. This is in accordance with the advertised TV specs.

1.2 Same settings as above but with 30fps: File plays fine on TV. TV specs say max supported framerate for H264 - 3840x2160 is 30. So that's ok for me. File size is 153 MB.

2. Using Handbrake for transcoding the AV 10 exported file from 1.1 above :

2.1 Settings as per jt49 's advice (H.265 - 3840x2160) at 60fps: File plays fine on TV. TV specs say max supported framerate for H265 - 3840x2160 is 60. So that's ok for me as well. File size is 1.90 GB. Encoding time way over 30 mins.

3. Using Handbrake to transcode a AV 10 exported file to H.265 - HD 1920x1080 at 30 fps. OK for TV. File size 29.3 MB.

Quality: On My TV I do not see any relevant difference in quality between above mentioned files.

My conclusion: I will stick with option 1.2 above and keep 3. above in mind as alternative.

Many thanks to everyone who guided me through this process. It's much appreciated.

I feel like I am ready to buy a license now.

[jt49]

16 hours ago, Paul L said:

.....

Settings as per jt49 's advice (H.265 - 3840x2160) at 60fps: File plays fine on TV. TV specs say max supported framerate for H265 - 3840x2160 is 60. So that's ok for me as well. File size is 1.90 GB. Encoding time way over 30 mins.

Using Handbrake to transcode a AV 10 exported file to H.265 - HD 1920x1080 at 30 fps. OK for TV. File size 29.3 MB.

.....

1.9 GB sounds odd, perhaps unfavourable  parameters. Try "constant quality" with RF between 18 and 23 (smaller numbers give (theoretically) better quality, but larger files).

[Robert Albright]

A very interesting and useful discussion. Thank you all who contributed to it.