How are you converting LPs to MP3s?

[Danabw]

I've finally dug out my old LPs (7 boxes...oh-my-gawd) and want to rip them to my computer to increase my soundtrack options, and to show my sons that their dad isn't a complete fuddy-duddy. (Though the fact that I actually use the term "fuddy-duddy" pretty much ruins any chances of me not being one.)

Anyway, can anyone recommend a good SW & process for recording LPs to my computer? I want to create MP3s from my albums, will use them in slideshows & movies, and just to enjoy playing again on my networked audio at home and on my iPod. I'd like to find something that:

- Recognizes spaces between tracks and automatically creates separate files or allows you to easily get it to split a large file from one side of a record into individual files after capture

- Provides filters, etc., to remove pops/clicks w/out trashing the audio

- Allows you to label tracks (artist/title/album)

I'm interested in freeware/shareware and commercial SW...don't want to spend more than $50 or so for it unless there are some clear benefits to a more expensive package.

Anyone out there who has done this - I'd appreciate your advice. I do already have a turntable & phono preamp, so I've got the harware...

Thanks!

P.S. There was a recent article in PCWorld that kind of got me started on this, and they recommended some SW, but I wanted to hear from folks that are actually doing this at home.

[Maureen]

We have permanent leads set up out of the pre amp (and in to - and each labelled clearly). The leads then go into a portable minidisc, so music from the record, tape etc is stored digitally.

Mini disc is then connected into leads which are set up ( and I leave them set up) into computer sound card.

Take it into sound editing software........ I use Audition most pf the time.

[boxig]

Try this:

LP Ripper Program

and read this:

Learn how to convert LP to CD or audio cassette tapes to CD!

Granot

[Alan Lyons]

Hi Dan,

I have used Audio Cleaning Lab Deluxe 3.0 for some time now and find it very good. It allows you to import from LP/Cassette/Mic. Rip mp3 ect and CDs. You can also import files already on your computer. Then you can de click de noise ect and compile the tracks onto a CD as audio files, or as mp3s to save space. What I like about it is it was made to do the job but it also can be used as a sound editor. "It does a lot more than it says on the tin"

You should find it in the sound section of your local PC shop, or at MAGIX.COM

Alan

[Leif]

Plus! Analog Recorder

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/plus/dme/...usic.asp#analog

[Conflow]

LP's to Digital Conversion

If you want a 'connection' from your "Pick-Up Deck, Hi-Fi System" straight into your PC Sound Card ---> You need a Stereo 5pin Din Plug to Stereo Mini-Jack Plug Cable. This will allow some Pre-Editing of the LP's in setting:- Volume,Balance,Tone, and Graphic Equaliser -plus- the use of Stereo Headphones which you will need when doing the conversions.

The program we have used for the past year is "Audio-Cleaning Lab 2004" by Magix.Corp. $40 (approx)

It eliminates Pops, Clicks, Hiss, Stylus Scratch, Hum & System noise -plus- It corrects Bad Dynamic Range, Over-Compression, Presence Effects, and can add Reverb and a whole range of corrections to "poorly produced" LP's particularily those rareties of the mid '50's.

It is a big program, it takes a bit of getting used to, but well worth the effort -This Program needs large 'Memory' to work properly at least 128mB of 'Free-Memory' (thats absolute minimum) - even 256mB can be hard pushed if you want to do serious corrections.

The 'Big Problem's' with old LP's is speed-stability, surface distortion, groove distortion all due to 40+ years of storage and not least the accumulation of air-bourne contaminates and worse that that is "poor dynamic range" (Min to Max Sound Levels)

Hopes this gives an 'inkling' of whats ahead of you - you really need to want to do this.

Brian.Conflow.

[Danabw]

Thanks very much for your replies...

My preamp arrived, so I hooked it up to the turntable and to the computer line in.

Got Audio-Cleaning Lab 5.0 and started playing around last night. Very easy to do...Audio Cleaner 2005 is pretty powerful and does a nice job...the UI could use some work to simplify it a bit, but overall I'm OK w/it.

Two main things I'd like Audio Cleaning lab to do that it doesn't appear to do, are:

- Allow me to set the default location to save files...I have to reset it every time I start a new project (it wants to use my C drive, I keep all music on drive D - moved my My Music folder there via Windows ages ago). I can't find a Preferences or Options setting that allows me to set default save locations...is that really not an option?

- Allow me to specify track names (and simple tags like artist & album) while exporting to MP3. Audio Cleaner could provide a capability to enter a name and tags for each track before you export. I can rename them in the folder and add tags in iTunes, but it would be easier to do it in the AudioCleaner UI as I export.

Now all I really need is a better turntable/cartridge - the sound quality from the turntable is just OK. I borrowed it from my parents, and they have a cheap cartridge on it - can't tell for sure if the problem is only in the cartridge, but I may go shell out for a nicer one if I can't find anyone else to mooch a better turntable setup from... :-)

It is fun to use a turntable again...been about 15 years or so since I've used one regularly. I copied two old Steely Dan albums (Pretzel Logic & Royal Scam) last night just to try it out.

Funniest part was explaining turntables and records to my sons. They've seen turntables before, but never really been close to one or been able to try it out. I felt like some sort of caveman showing them the needle, talking about dust, scratches, record cleaning and shouting "Don't bump the table!!" when they started drumming to the music on it. :-) I think they were amazed at what we had to put up with and the rituals we went through.

On the other hand, reliving the joys of album art that isn't four inches across is very fun. I actually used to buy used albums back in the day just for their cover art, something you'd never do w/a CD. It was cool to go through the albums and enjoy the great album art that was happening in the Sixties and Seventies...

[Conflow]

Hi Danabw'

I'm pleased you got 'Audio Cleaning Lab 2005' and in reply to a few points you mentioned:-

Being a 'Mass Produced' Program it chooses the 'C-Drive as the Default Drive' - this is normal

procedure for such a Program.

A 'Work Around':- I have often done the following with Segmented and/or Dual drives.

Create a Folder on the 'root tree' of the C-Drive, name it 'Folio-A' send a shortcut to Desktop.

Create a Folder on the 'root tree' of the D-Drive, name it 'Folio-B' send a shortcut to Desktop.

When 'Set-up' properly the Program will choose 'Folio-A' on C-Drive to download to.

Its now a simple matter of 'dragging' its contents to 'Folio-B' and visa-versa through

the Shortcuts on the Desktop - It makes for a very simple life.

Tracknames-Artists-Mp3 Tags. These properties are 'generic' to origional Digital Music and are

encoded in the 'Digital Music Tracks'. No such properties existed within LP Discs so its

not possible to 'generate' these Titles automatically when 'converting' LP's to MP3's.

Turntable & Catridge:- I dont know what Turntable you have, but in relation to the Catridge,

I suggest a 'Variable-Reluctance' Stanton Catridge with Elliptical Stylus <---thats important.

Before the arrival of the RIAA Phono Specs. LP groove geometry varied enormously as did

45's and old 78's. So you need a 'tool' that will do the best possible tracking job of those

very old grooves and the newer Discs. The 'Elliptical Stylus' is the only answer to that dilema.

I'm sure my Post is going to raise a 'howl' of protests from the 'Hi-Fi Purists' but then they

are not doing the job you are doing, and after 40 years in this Business one gets to know

what works and what doesn't -

Best of Luck with your Project.

Brian.Conflow.

conflow@iol.ie

[Danabw]

Thanks very much, Brian, for your reply.

I've used dozens of mass produced SW packages that allow control over simple things like file save locations...I do believe that is a "basic" feature that should be included, especially w/SW that is going to be saving some very large files. Oh well, I can deal w/it. :-)

I understand that the MP3 tags aren't there in the LP. That would be a neat trick, wouldn't it, if Steely Dan's producers had put them there, decades before the MP3's existed? :-)

What I would like is for Audio Cleaning lab (maybe in 2006 version?!) to allow me to enter file names for each track before it saves them, and even better, also enter the basic Artist/Album tags. They could provide a dialog that would have a filename field for each track that is going to be saved, and Artist/Album tag fields. Enter info, click "OK," and then it would create the MP3's with the entered file names and tags. "I have a dream..." :-) Would really enhance the process.

Thanks very much for the cartridge suggestion...I was an ADC man in my previous turntable life, if I remember correctly. But I didn't (and don't) have any particular expertise w/cartridges, so I appreciate your comments...I'll go google stanton and elliptical styluses and read up on it.

What have you been doing in the audio business?

[Danabw]

Oh - forgot. Given cartridges range widely in price, would you suggest any particular price range for reasonable results?

[DaveG]

On the software side ROXIO EZ CD Creator 7 allows for creating MP3 from either sound card or (as in my case) using an EDIROL Optical to USB lead. If you go down the Mini-Disc route as suggested by Maureen the Optical / USB is a much better option than via the sound card.

I also use EZ CD Creator for my DVD burning, always producing an Image file first.

DaveG

[Conflow]

Hi again Danabw,

If you contact 'Support@Magix.Com' you may be able to resolve the Download Folder issue.

From my experience these types of 'Real-Time Interactive Programs' really need direct access

to the Hard Drive - (somewhat like CD Burner Software) - reason being that they are always

interactively 'Writing and Reading' to the HD in order to produce the desired end product.

Thats not the same as 'Writing and Reading' to a secondary Folder in a Program Group.

So you are an ADC man, damn good products. Irrespective of Catridge Maker its an Elliptical

Stylus you want for the job in hand, as to manufacturers, well these products have really

reached their Zenith and there is little difference in the top Manufacturers.

If you want to go mad you could always invest in a 'Digital Laser Pick-Up Deck' - Expensive?

Naming & Tagging of the "Cloned LP's" - I can't see Magix Corporation going down that road

because what you are doing is essentially "Copying Copyright Materials" albeit for domestic

usage.

However the 'Mechanical Copyright Assoc' nor the 'Performing Rights Assoc' see it that way -

Their stance is that you are "Copying Copyright Materials' - full stop ! and of course these

days its a Federal offence - se la vie.

As to my background, trained by Sony Corp, after which I set up the only 'HI-Fi Repair Shop'

in Dublin (In those days). Then got involved in Audio Manufacturing, then Ultrasonic Instruments -

Then Computerised Audio & Data Recording and then 'Digital Wireless Audio Systems'.

Today we Manufacture specialised P.A Equipment for Irish Railways (On Train PA.Systems)

Hope this explains the limitations imposed on Magix Corporation and other issues.

Brian.Conflow.

[Danabw]

DaveG:

You said: ?'''using an EDIROL Optical to USB lead" What the heck is that?

Thanks, Brian...sounds like an interesting career you've had.

I noticed something else annoying about Audio Cleaning lab today. :-) Default install is to a folder in the root of drive C...either it didn't show the intended installation folder during install, or I wasn't paying attention and missed it...it should have installed to C:\Program Files like any other well-behaved Windows program!

But...it is a fun program to use, and seems to do what it does quite well.

As for tagging...if they allow encoding to MP3s (perfectly legal), and allowed entering of tags as well, that wouldn't involve any legal exposure for them...MP3s are an encoding algorythm and file format, nothing more, and it would be reasonable to expect tagging of any legal MP3 created. :-) I have MP3s of my son's piano playing, and tag them.

Yeah....ADC was my friend. :-) I'll look around at the elliptical cartridges and see what looks good. I might even spring for a whole new turntable...maybe an MMF. I need to return my parents turntable sometime, and it is going to take while to get all the LPs I want digitized...

Thanks for the help.

[Conflow]

Danbw,

COPYRIGHT MATERIALS

With respect, I think you missed the point I made - Its nothing to do with the MP3 Format -Its simply to do with the fact that persons are "Copying Copyright Materials" - its that simple.

If you and your Son made a "Recording"...Its considered Copyrighted, because you are the origional Authors irrespective whether you claim Copyright or not. Whats to prevent you guys from claiming Copyright in the future ? - The Court would uphold your claim provided you can show proof of 'Origional Authorship'. The Case:- Gilbert & O'Sullivan -v- D'Oyle Carte Opera Company is a historic classic in that respect. Copyright & Reproduction is nothing new, if anything the Laws have been made more robust.

We have all done this some time or other. Because we bought the CD or the LP or Record and because of that purchase - We feel that we have the right to consequential usage,we don't. Like 'Shareware' or 'Proprietory Software' we simply have the right to enjoy the "Data Content" - we certainly don't have the right to "Re-Record or Copy or Reproduce" that data even for domestic usage. Normally the Law turns a blind eye to such activities, but from time to time the Law makes examples of certain lawbreakers and others particularily when things get out of hand. What you and I are doing is 'Restoring Historic Records' for personal usage and there is nothing wrong in it. But technically we dont have an 'automatic-right' to do that -

An Analogy:- Go out and buy a 'Best Selling Novel' - now Copy it and show the Copy around the neighbourhood.

You are well aware what will happen next. Purchased Recordings are no different....The same Laws are enforced.

* Most of us on the Forum are aware of those facts and generally conform to the 'status-quo'.

* Someday you may release a Licenced Compendium of those re-constructed 'Old Records' on CD -

* Whats to stop others copying that ? - Now you can appreciate the other side of the Coin.

Best Regards

Brian.Conflow.

[Danabw]

Brian:

I think we're in violent agreement... :-)

I understand the copyright laws (I have some background in video production and have worked w/getting rights for copyrighted materials for use in projects). I generally ignore copyright laws for personal use purposes in my own home, just like pretty much everyone else in the world...I feel free to do whatever I want w/a CD and the music on it, for use within my own home, once I purchase it. :-)

Clearly (to me, and many others) the copyright laws have been strengthened in the US in recent years, and primarily for the benefit of large corporations and to the detriment of the public interest...the current length of copyrights has been extended in a way that appears to be designed to lock in profits, and assure some sort of life-long annuity to both the sons/daughters and grandsons/grandaughters of the original creators...to the extent now that it errs on the side of not encouraging new creativity, and limiting access to content that really is quite "ready" for use in the public domain, IMHO. This isn't black and white, and I'm sure you or others could disagree, but I have not been in favor of the recent changes in the US that continue to lock up content away from free public access. Harumph! :-)

In terms of Magix SW, I was speaking to the reason that Magix could include tagging of MP3s saved from their SW w/out any legal exposure whatsoever...my example is that when I create an MP3 of my son's piano playing using Magix (and as you note, I can do whatever I want to w/that recording, I own the copyright), I want to be able to add tags to the MP3 as I save it from Magix. Magix could provide that facility w/out any legal issues, given that there is a perfectly legal reason to want to tag my MP3s that I'm making w/Magix of my son's performances. In fact, I've discovered that Audio Cleaner appears to already do some basic MP3 tagging...they appear to put the filename of the exported MP3 into the tags. So all I want is for them to allow me to put in a few more tags... :-) They are no more responsible if I behave badly (LP "restoration") than a manufacturer of a shovel is if someone uses it to dig holes all over their neighbor's yard. :-)

Wish my neighbor would do that, actually, we're planting some new plants in the back yard...

Off to work!

Fun conversation.

Dana

[Conflow]

Dana,

I completely agree with you as far as 'personal use' is concerned and I further agree with your comment's about the 'latent' motivations of large Corporations particularily in the U.S.A.

Its purely 'profiteering protection' on a grand scale under the guise of Artists & Shareholder interests protection. We all know which sections of the Community wield absolute power and control in the Communications, Music and Multi-Media Industries.Perhaps enough said for the time being.

I can see a time in the not too distant future when this 'stranglehold' will be challenged and broken on the back of 'Human Rights'. Greed is a terrible thing, but its also self-destructive when it interfers with common 'Citizens Rights' and hopefully Democracy will sort out that patrticular 'Public Consumer' abuse in time. The European E.C is already moving in that direction.

Those future changes will encourage 'Talent' and genuinely protect the 'Artist' and the 'Media Creator' alike and offer a 'Fair deal' to the paying Public. That day is long overdue !

Glad to be of help -

Brian.Conflow.