DVD vs CD for offline storage

[Ken Cox]

quote from a group I sub to

re : jpegs

ken

<*> To visit group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/advanced_cdr/

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:32:58 -0600 (CST)

From: Paul Crowley <pcrowley@infinadyne.com>

Subject: Re: DVD Recording Modes & selection thereof.

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005, Anthony Green wrote:

> Also, as I see that there are three burning modes, I don't have to worry

> too much as to which sort of blanks I need to buy [i think] as all should

> work "just as well as each other".  However, I would appreciate some

> feedback from those more experienced than I as to which mode is the most

> successful/appropriate, and does this have any bearing on what function

> the

> DVD disk is going to be put to?

>

> i.e. 1) Storage of family created films for playing on standard(?) DVD

> players attached to TV's.

>       2) Storage of files that will only be accessed from a computer.

>

> One thing I worry about is burning all my family pix to a DVD, and not

> being able to be read by relatives if the DVD player in their computers

> can

> not handle the mode that I've burnt the JPGs.  I guess that this comes

> down

> to "Which is the most 'Standard' mode that everyone should be able to

> handle?

DVD-R is likely the most compatible format - it will not play in most

"early" 1996-1998 DVD set-top boxes, but should be OK in everything after

about 2000. After 1998 most set-top box manufacturers realized that they

weren't doing much good in preventing movie piracy by not playing recorded

discs.

To make a disc for any sort of set-top box, you need to make it a real DVD

Movie disc with a movie authoring program. There are ways to make this

with still pictures, but do not rely on some boxes's ability to display a

disc full of JPEG pictures.

I know of no realistic differences between DVD-R and DVD+R discs in terms

of data storage, longevity or readability - except older DVD-ROM drives

will read DVD-R discs and not DVD+R discs. I would recommend DVD-R for

everything unless you know something about where the disc is going.

--

Paul Crowley

CD-ROM Productions / InfinaDyne

http://www.cdromprod.com / http://www.infinadyne.com

[alrobin]

Robert,

I use my dvd burner to back-up and store images quite satisfactorily. I have a fast P4 system with lots of RAM and hd space and an internally-mounted LG "Super Multi dvd drive" (GSA-4081B) that I didn't pay any more than a hundred bucks (Cdn) for.

Time to display all the folders after inserting a dvd in the unit is between 15 and 30 seconds. Displaying a page full (approx 60) of thumbnails with Win XP in one of the folders takes about 20 to 30 seconds (for mostly tiffs around 2 or 3 Mb in size.) But I find XP is a real dog, anyway, when it comes to speed of thumbnail processing, even on the high-speed hd.

However, I profile each dvd in IMatch after I burn it, which reduces the find and display time to only a few seconds.

Of course it takes a long time to burn all the images in the first place, but we are dealing with several gigabytes of information here, not just 700 Mb as with a CD.

Bottom line: I'm quite happy with my dvd image storage system. I did invest in a 160 Gb hd for "temporary" storage and backup of everything important until such time as I can accumulate enough for another dvd, as I don't want to mix images and music and other documents, etc., on the same dvd's, and I also don't want to be so cramped for space that I'm forced into dvd offloading when I'm pushed for time.

[keffs]

In relation to DVD-Drives

Most of these 'Record' at 4X Speed - 'ReWrite' at 2x and 'Play' at 12x. Considering the Software limitations for 'Image Storage' - they really are slow.

Compared to a Standard CD-Drive

Records at 16X - 'ReWrites at 10X and 'Plays at 32X.

Compared to a CD-AOpen Drive with Just-Link (which we use)

'Records' at up to 52X - 'ReWrites' at 32X and 'Plays' at 52X.

I think that this is a bit confusing. A CD that reads 16x is not 4 times quicker than a DVD that reads 4x. The base that these are multiples of are different for CD and for DVD, so a direct comparison is not valid. I am not sure of the exact figures, but I am sure that they could be found if required.

Steve

[jongru]

Hi Folks,

Wonder if the issue is really Burning or Copying files to a dvd. I copy thousands of files to dvds using Sonic Solutions Record Now. Never get the problems you folks are mentioning.

Maybe you are setting the dvd up as an operational disk by trying to burn simple jpg's to the dvd instead of using the copy or back up modes....jongru

[LumenLux]

Maybe you are setting the dvd up as an operational disk by trying to burn simple jpg's to the dvd instead of using the copy or back up modes....jongru  

I hesitate to address the "back up" term, as it seems to mean many different things to different software. But shouldn't "copy" be the same thing as burn simple jpg's to the dvd ? I am not using the DVD as an open hard drive that I drag and drop files to from time to time. Is that what you mean as an "operational disk?"

I hope maybe you are onto something that I am missing - but I am not sure I understand what you mean.

[jongru]

Hi Lumenlux,

What I think I am trying to say is that the process of "burning a dvd" in my opinion, is the preparation of a dvd for the rendering and writing of "authored dvd "assets" such as video, audio, pictures, narrations, etc. to the dvd.

In my experience, using the software cited, I just indicate to the dvd writer (Sony-DRX530-UL) that I wish to make a data disk, go to the folders or files and identify them, then press burn or go.....never had a problem of viewing or quick retrieval of the written files on the dvd when I choose to use one or all.... hope this clarifies my original opinion.....jongru

[LumenLux]

OK jongru, I got it this time. Thank you.

There has been a lot of helpful info from many here. In my case, I am simply making a data disk as you say you are. But in my case, I do have the problem of slow and reluctant retrievals. (As described in first post in this topic.) I'm sure part of my problem is the slower equipment, which seems to compound whatever built-in" weaknesses of the DVD medium or method.

I was actually strangely comforted by an article in recent Outdoor Photographer magazine. One author/photgrapher described his new years resolutions for himself and for the photo industry. His number one resolution for the industry: "Produce digital archiving and storage devices that are easy, stable, and, well, archival." Explaining, "Unfortunately, CD's are too small, DVD's are too slow, hard drives are too prone to failure, and all of them are less than rock stable."

I understand from your experience and that of others posted here, that you are having better results than I am with DVD for this purpose. Can you tell me if you have indeed filled an entire DVD with jpg images and they still all "come up" quickly as thumbnails. If, per chance, you have not tried to scroll rapidly through ALL the thumbnails, you may be surprised (hope not) to find that there are some "reluctant" files that would rather just "be there" than be of any normal use. I don't know if anyone has said, and I have not thoroughly tested whether it helps to have a certain number of sub-directories etc.

[alrobin]

Robert,

You should definitely have your image files organized into many sub-directories; other wise, you will have to sit and wait for the whole dvd to assign icons to each image on the dvd!

[jongru]

Hi LumenLux,

I just have never had this problem. I respect Al's expertise so I will try to completely copy a few thousand hi-res jpgs to a dvd+rw and then try and access them. Give me a couple of days to test it and I will see if the full disk is the culprit.

I always save my digital photos in a large number of folders as Al has stated. No more than 300 in each folder. Still no problems. I know I have at least 2-3 gbs on several of my dvds. So stand by will report my findings. I use firewire ( ie: 1394 ) cabling to an external Sony recorder. Maybe this is the difference. I used to hook up to the Sony using my usb ports and do remember a much slower copy rate before getting a firwire hub for my laptop.....jongru...

[alrobin]

I've never tried it either - it will be interesting to hear about your results!

I do know that when I am trying to copy a bunch of images from one folder to another, if Win XP hasn't finished "writing" the little icons for one of the files being copied, I receive an error message and everything grinds to a halt.