New transition button

[Birding]

Hi

Has there been an alteration in the new version with the ' new transition ' button. Sometimes when I am doing a sequence I will play the sound track and just press ' n ' for new transition and then go back and tidy it all up.

I now find I can't use the new transition button at all either by clicking 'n ' or on 'add new transistion '. It seems that which ever button I select i.e. not synchronised auto synchronise or synchronise to show I still can't add a new transition

I am using XP home edition

[Igor]

I was very worried that new mode of time-line requires a little adaptation.

To work as earlier, please don't delete transition points (which are slides now):

1) Press new ">>" button (near to "Waveform" button) and then click "Shift All Points to Right".

2) Click "Play" button and as earlier press "New transition" button or "Insert" key.

Friends,

Please try this new way and let me know - do you consider this enough for comfortable work?

[Birding]

Thanks Igor

It did work. when you added a new transition it brought one forward from the block you had moved to the right.

Yes I find this quite comfortable now I know how, but the earlier way was easier

[alrobin]

Igor,

I don't see why the button for "Shift all points to right" is required in order to clear the timeline, as we already have the option to "Delete all transition points". Could you please explain the rationale for this option? If it is required so that the images for all transition points "deleted" are not removed from the slide list, then I think that it would be less confusing to just disable the removal of the images in this case.

Anyone else have some ideas on this?

[Igor]

1) As we've discussed and decided earlier, I'll add ability when after inserting in Slide list new slide(s) between another slides (e.g. between slide #4 (20:00) and slide #5 (30:00)) it will be inserted at 25:00.

Thank you, Al and another members for detailed suggestions and explanations!

2) It's undesirable to have both systems (linked to particular slides and not linked as earlier). It may brings bugs.

3) So I suggest always delete linked transition point when we delete a slide in the Slide list.

4) I can add new button to delete only transition point(s) on the time-line and keep linked slide (as earlier). For example you can delete 7th transition point or 36th transition point. But because new system requires to have equal number of transition points and count of slides, last slide will be without transition point and after deleting of 7th transition point PTE will automatically add for the last slide transition point at the end.

5) Also I'll try to add "Insert new slide" button in the time-line window.

The most important question.

I will try to explain new style of work with the time-line. If it's not enought simple please let me know!

a) So you have new slide-show with 30 slides and some music track.

You open time-line and see that you already have 30 transition points for all slides.

But you can't delete all transition points to to add them on-the-fly as earlier? Because deleting of points means deleting of slides. It's confusing, because you would like to work with empty time-line.

c) Because of this, I suggest to press ">>" button and call "Shift all points to right" (or Alt+R). Now all points will be moved *outside* of music track(s) (do you see red vertical line?). Now you see empty time-line.

d) You can press Play button and during music playing you can click "Add transition point". It works exactly as earlier.

e) What "Add transition point" button doing now? It takes nearest transition point from the right side and puts it where the cursor located.

Please try how it works and write me what you think about it.

[alrobin]

Thanks so much, Igor, for the improvements to this feature. I like especially #1 and #3. However, I don't understand exactly how #5 would work. But this feature is improving.

[alrobin]

Igor,

I see now why you have added option a) to e); - it's because at present if you select "Timed Points / Delete all transition points" all the slides on the slide list will also be removed.

How about a second option to move only the transitions to the right of the cursor? Then if all of the transitions were fine up to say slide #30 and then started to be out of sync, you could start over at slide 30 with a fresh timeline to the right of it.

[ADB]

IGOR PLEASE READ VERY IMPORTANT SLIDES AREN'T AS IMPORTANT AS TRANSITION POINTS

It seems to me that generally from start to finish in a project once you are happy with your transition points they won't change but the particular images occuring at each transition point could change many times until you achieve the right feel of your presentation. In short transition points should be "sacred" and the hardest thing to remove, images should be able to be chopped and changed easily. Right now if I go and remove half the images from my slide list I also remove half my transition points!! This could be devastating if I didn't know before hand.

When you are programming transition points in the Timeline you go to great efforts to place your transition points at very precise changes in the music, you can spend a lot of time doing this, it seems wrong to loose these transitions when you delete a slide because its not the right slide for that transition point. The slide can easily be changed but the transition point will require more work.

Pictures to exe will be fundamentally flawed if you allow transition points to be deleted when you delete a slide. Think of it this way. I spend 3 hours getting all my transition points ready for a 10 min show, perfectly synched to the soundtrack however I now realise that there are about 15 slides throughout my presentation that I could replace with better slides, under the current beta it will mean virtually reprogramming the whole show as opposed to simply making 15 quick changes in the slide list.

[alrobin]

I agree with Andrew - if we can't have the option to use which method we prefer, with the default being to not remove a transition when a slide is removed, and vice versa, then we should leave the system as it was before.

Also, it is not right to have it one way when removing transitions and the other way when removing slides. That would really be confusing.

[Igor]

Andrew,

Please don't worry! These topics and were started to discuss such important possible changes.

This problem reminds me "gordian knot"

I'll try to realize both variants (exactly as earlier and new mode) and prepare tomorrow plan for discussion.

[ADB]

Thanks Igor, I was getting a little worried but am very pleased to see that you treating this with an open mind :-)

Its this open mind that has made PTE such a great peice of software.

[ADB]

Igor I just looked up the "Gordian Knot" on the internet

Solve this puzzle with PTE and it will make you "Igor the Great" !! :-)

[Tripstrilles]

Hi, I hope I have understand your discussion.

Would it not be better to give every transitionpoint in the timeline the property of a - placeholder -?

And every placeholder (transitionpoint) can linked to the image I want have at this point of timeline.

So if I want to change some images after finishing a presentation, I only change the link of the placeholder to the new image (right mouseclick - properties - new link). I will then not lose my transitionpoint.

Greetings, Rainer

[ADB]

Rainer

I think one of the really good things about PTE is that you can lay your slides out in the order you want them to play in the "slide table" view and manually change them around to suit the order you want them to appear.

The images then naturally line up with your transition points in your time line.

I like what you are suggesting but in being able to make such a link to an image PTE would also have to make the corresponding changes in the slide table. I think the slide table should also be able to have more slides than there are transition points so you can have slides "off to the side" which you can add or take away if needed.

[Michel]

When I'm working with a project, by example, I save my project with work1.pte.

I open later this project to modify my pictures: first, I save my project with work2.pte; I delete a few points and I want replace somes pictures by other slides;I add my new pictures in the slide list, then I use the new function (very easy): "Import points from another project".

For the moment, this way gives good results, no problem.

It's perhaps difficult to work with a new mode at the beginning, but this new mode is a very good feature: no doubt, if necessary, Igor will propose a better function or option and all the suggests to make PTE better and the best are welcome for all !

[Igor]

We suggest the next plan:

1) On the time-line:

Two buttons: "Delete transitition point" and "Delete slide".

Two actions in the popup menu: "Delete all transition points" and "Delete all slides".

So you can work as you wish - with real slides, or with points as earlier (and even use both ways together).

2) Main window, Slide list.

a) By default, I suggest to keep unchanged transition point(s) if you delete slide(s). So it works as earlier. You can even delete all slides from Slide list, but transition points will be leaved unchanged.

Only please let me know, apparently it necessary to add option "Apply changes to transition points when work in the Slide list"? When this option turned on, and when we delete a slide from the Slide list it also will remove linked transition point. Re-arranging of slides in the Slide list will re-arrange linked transition points, too. Or this option is not necessary?

So this way we will reach "Unified Synchronization theory" (UST)

[Michel]

Re-arranging of slides in the Slide list will re-arrange linked transition points, too

This moment seems very important for me as an option and is absolutly necessary when we delete/add a slide in the list.

For the plan, very good idea ! But, the work must to be easy and keep it so .

[Bethan]

Admin wrote:

Only please let me know, apparently it necessary to add option "Apply changes to transition points when work in the Slide list"? When this option turned on, and when we delete a slide from the Slide list it also will remove linked transition point. Re-arranging of slides in the Slide list will re-arrange linked transition points, too. Or this option is not necessary?

I would, by preference, never delete a transition from the slide list, although the option to change a transition type/effect from the slide list is useful.

In essence, I never use PTE without a soundtrack - often using music with less common time signatures - so placement of transition points is simply a disaster when based either on luck or time calculations!

One of the greatest functions of PTE has to be the more or less real-time interaction with the soundtrack - and PTE allows me to get 'close' to the music - hence my earlier unhappiness with the strict linkage of transition points with the slides themselves.

VERY happy that there will be an option to select deletion of either slide OR transition point!

[ADB]

Igor sounds like we are getting there!

Just one question, when we go to insert a new transition point amongst other already existing transition points will PTE change the other transition points (like it does in current beta)? I think its important that it DOESN"T change the other transition points.

One other option may be useful. In the slide list or timeline can we have a "Replace slide option" accessed by right clicking slide and selecting from a file browser type box?

Also Personally I don't think 2)b is necessary from my perspective

Thanks for all your efforts on this Igor and your will to get it right

[Michel]

never delete a transition from the slide list

What I want to say, by example: if I'm working with a project, and if I want not to keep one picture, I must be able to delete easy and the picture and the transition.

Perhaps another way is possible, but all must be easy and only an option is a little work, I suppose.

It will be "fun" to have many opinions for all the plan and this discuss seems very interesting for all: so is the PTE life ! But why don't try to work with the new mode ? I used it with two works, and I enjoyed for his new feature: easy, fantastic !

By the way, Igor will find the best soluce for our pleasure and our slideshows !

[alrobin]

Igor,

I like the idea of options, provided they are clear and user-friendly.

In #1, how about 2 buttons as follows: 1: delete transition point only, and 2: delete transition point and corresponding slide? Otherwise, this will be a 2-button operation if option 2 is desired. Also, one might press button #1 to delete the transition and then forget whether slide-deletion button #2 was pushed or not.

In #1, I don't see why it is necessary to have a command to "delete all slides", because even if one did use this option one would have to return to the slide list and add more slides before proceeding any further. So, one might as well close the timeline and then "delete all slides" from the slide list if that is what is desired. However, if one is deleting all slides from the slide list, one might as well start a new project. However, I don't see why one would want to rearrange transition points when rearranging slides, as the location of transition points are determined by the music. And, if a long transition is rearranged, it could overlap with another transition, so transitions should either be added, removed, or stay put.

I agree with Andrew that 2-a should be the default from the slide list, as it was in PTE 4.30.

2-b would be useful, but only if it is combined with the option to add a transition between 2 slides as in my previous description whenever a slide is added to the slide list.

Hope I haven't made this more complicated than it is. It's almost starting to feel like a "Gordian noose"!

[Michel]

The most important question.

I will try to explain new style of work with the time-line. If it's not enought simple please let me know!

a) So you have new slide-show with 30 slides and some music track.

You open time-line and see that you already have 30 transition points for all slides.

But you can't delete all transition points to to add them on-the-fly as earlier? Because deleting of points means deleting of slides. It's confusing, because you would like to work with empty time-line.

c) Because of this, I suggest to press ">>" button and call "Shift all points to right" (or Alt+R). Now all points will be moved *outside* of music track(s) (do you see red vertical line?). Now you see empty time-line.

d) You can press Play button and during music playing you can click "Add transition point". It works exactly as earlier.

e) What "Add transition point" button doing now? It takes nearest transition point from the right side and puts it where the cursor located.

Please try how it works and write me what you think about it.

The most important question

I think we must explain better how is new time-line function. I suggest at all to try exactly this perfect mode: PTE must get to be fine and intuitive-easy together now. Please, work with it a lot...(don't worry, Igor is a "magician" and all will not be lost !)

[ADB]

I have spent a lot of time today thinking how I would best go about constructing a PTE presentation if I could have all the enhancements I wanted.

My method would be something like this:- (text in bold are things we can't currently do in PTE)

1. Decide/prepare/compose my sound track

2. Import my soundtrack into PTE via the Background Music Tab

3. In the timeline view I play my sound track and add my transition points. This gives me a good first go at laying out transition points according to the soundtrack. I may never change these points or I could change them a lot or a little depending on how I fine tune my presentation.

4. Then I load in my slides to the slide list and switch to the slide table view.

5. Now while keeping the slide table view open I bring up the timeline and play the soundtrack. As I play the soundtrack and watch for the transition points I move slides around on the slide table to suit.

6. Once I have roughly arranged the slides in the slide table I focus back on the Timeline and play the show from the beginning looking at the small preview

7. CHANGING IMAGES ASSIGNED TO PARTICULAR TRANSITION POINTS- When I get to a transition point that I don't like the attached slide for, I right click on the transition in the timeline window and select "Replace Slide" PTE takes you to the Slide Table/Slide List and you are prompted to select the new slide. When you select the new slide PTE will check if that slide currently has an assigned transition point:-

If it doesn't have an assigned transition point it will replace the slide and send the replaced original slide to the back of the slide table/slide list.

If PTE detects that the replacement slide already has an assigned transition point it will show a Dialogue Box "Transition Point already exists for this slide Do you want to:-

Copy Slide - This leaves the "replacing" slide where it is but creates a copy and replaces the "original" slide. The "original" slide is sent to the back of the slide table/slide list

Substitute Slide - This does a simple swap between the two.

Replace with blank slide - This replaces the "replacing" slide with a blank slide, replaces the "original" slide with the "replacing" slide, and sends the "original" slide to the back of the slide list. By leaving a blank slide it shows you instantly where you now have a "gap" in your slide list.

Replace and move forward - This replaces the "original" slide with the "replacing" slide, sends the "original" slide to the back of the slide list and then moves all the slides behind the "replacing" slide forward one slide to fill the gap.

8. DELETE TRANSITION POINT - If I want to delete a transition point I right click on the transition point and select either DELETE TRANSITION POINT or DELETE TRANSITION POINT AND SLIDE. Both of these options preserve the positions of other transition points but if only the transition point is deleted then for example the 6th slide would now play at what used to be the 7th transition point. This is how classic PTE works.

9. ADD NEW PRESERVING TRANSITION POINT - When I want to add a completely new transition AND slide I click on this button. This will preserve all existing transition points and their corresponding slides but will be a two fold button that will behave as follows:-

First - Click the button and a transition point is added then...

Second - PTE takes you to the Slide Table/Slide List and you are prompted to select the new slide.When you select the new slide PTE will check if that slide currently has an assigned transition point:-

If it doesn't have an assigned transition point it will move the slide to the new position.

If PTE detects that the replacement slide already has an assigned transition point it will show a Dialogue Box "Transition Point already exists for this slide Do you want to:-

Copy Slide - This leaves the slide where it is but creates a copy and inserts the copy at the new transition point.

Replace with blank slide - This replaces the slide with a blank slide, and inserts the slide. By leaving a blank slide it shows you instantly where you now have a "gap" in your slide list.

Insert and move forward - This moves the slide from its current position and then moves all the slides behind the "inserting" slide forward one slide to fill the gap.

This may read as fairly complex but if you think about it it is very intuitive, it also uses the classic pre beta functionality except for:-

- Deleting Transition Points

- Adding Preserving Transition points

- Replacing slides assigned to transition points

- Allowing Slide table and timeline to be viewed at same time

What do you think???

[Michel]

My method would be something like this

Thanks, Andrew, for your explanation.

If I find some time, I 'll try to explain how I use currently, exactly the new time-line with the new function.

If it was possible, a larger full time-line with direct drag and drop three windows (explorer -> list -> time-line) would be fantastic: I have a dream...for a 7.10, 8,50...

But I'm very happy actually with my personal use (4.40 b3); null doubt, Igor read, work for the best and all the topics are very interesting.