Ed Overstreet Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 In viewing a PTE show of my own, and several by other people, at our photo club last night, I was struck yet again by how disappointing it is to view photographs when projected on a screen using our club's digital projector. In comparison with the original shows on a CRT monitor, the projections are a puzzling combination of increased contrast and reduced colour saturation, resulting in an almost complete destruction of pastel or other subtle colours and loss of detail especially in the shadows.Our projector is about four years old now, and I hope the technology has improved. I realize the colour gamut and method of display is very different between a digital projector and a CRT monitor, and I know that at least older projectors were designed mainly for business presentations not photography presentations, and photographers as we all know have very different demands on the quality of the display than do people who are putting up bullet-slides and simple graphics. I am hoping that someone on this forum might offer some suggestions of websites with good objective reviews of various projectors (from a photographer's standpoint) or perhaps the names of particular projector models of more recent vintage which do a better job in displaying photographs than do some older projectors. To protect the guilty and avoid getting into problems with specific companies, I'll refrain from naming the brand or model of our current projector. However it was a fairly expensive and high-end model at the time, and it certainly churns out enough lumens for a large room. But any comparison side-by-side with the same images on a CRT monitor leaves one exceedingly disappointed in the projection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cox Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Edhow does it project a tv showor its test/set up programken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrobin Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Ed,I agree with you - low-end digital projectors leave much to be desired and are not suitable for presentation of single images in camera and photo club competitions, particularly where they are matched up against conventional transparencies. These projectors are OK for slide shows, where the message and music partly make up for inferior individual images, or for tutorials or corporate presentations where the quality of the image is secondary in importance.I believe we should be saving our hard-earned revenue dollars for at least the next level up in quality. Here are a couple of web sites which I found useful in understanding the difference between the various technologies. Looks like a 3-chip DLP system would be appropriate for what we are looking for (if we could afford it!) An example of such a projector is the Panasonic PT-DW7000U, WXGA (1366 x 768) widescreen projector.Projector PeopleBuyer Zone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveG Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 I wish I could suggest one which is good enough for this sort of work, but I can say that you should avoid low end models such as the Hitachi CP-X275 and variants. They refuse to show anything near what you see on your monitor especially in the Yellows and Oranges.I suppose you have to pay that bit extra for quality.Like Ed I would welcome any reviews of projectors thought to be good enough for this sort of work.DaveG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The oldie Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Ed,My photo club have a PLUS U2 1200 Digital projector, which produces really good results from PTE etc. and handles still single images very well. The spec is XGA (1024 x 768) , 2000 ansi lumens, and 1500:1 Contrast ratio. This machine was about £2000 18 months ago, but I am sure the prices are much lower now.I think the main difference with the older projectors was the poor contrast ratio and in some cases brightness.I noticed that Dell are offering a highly rated projector, the 2300MP, with 2300 lumens, 2100:1 contrast XGA with sync to UXGA (1600 x 1200)at about £1100.This machine has had some very good reviews.Although there are some people that still compare unfavourably digital images with projected slides. I think we were very pleasantly surprised by the quality of the images from the PLUS.Hope this is of some help,Alan in UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gérard de Lux Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Many French photographic associations and AV producers that I know use with great satisfaction the following equipment : NEC HT 1000/1100 - OPTOMA 739 - BenQ 6200/6210.Several AV authors have seen PTE presentations on big screens (more than 3 meter wide) and with at least two of the above projectors and they are all very satisfied (even after having seen their own PTE presentations !); the NEC HT 1000 or HT1100 seem to give the best results overall (particularly for the rendering of high lights, whites and yellows) but it costs roughly twice as much as the Optoma and the BenQ.My photographic club owns an Optoma 739, the Chairman has the BenQ 6200 and I have the BenQ 6210... and we can't really see any quality difference between these three models when we use them with the same shows and the same photographs ! On a screen less than 3 meters wide, they give the best results on "Eco" mode (otherwise, the image is too bright for a darkened room). The important matters are the contrast ratio (1500:1 or more) and above all the fact that the audience should be seated at least 1 meter behind the projector.Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronwil Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 The International and National AV Festivals in the UK use the Royale Projection System for the digital projection of sequences with outstanding results. The specification of my particular model of the System is in the Information pages of my website www.ronwil.statacom.net You will see that the projector used is a PLUS Vision Corpn "Plus U3-1080".Ron [uK] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Hi EdI've been running a resource site for digital-av information for a while. Unfortunately recently other priorities have meant I haven't been able to update as often as I'd like and I'm currently doing a revamp to it (among other tasks).Buying suitable digital projectors was a major consideration for many people as they are a major purchasing item and need last a long while.I did lots of personal research when I was "shopping" around. I managed to get a sponsorship from BT Broadband for the purchase of a digital projector for our Royal Photographic Society Digital Group. I did do lots of research on the web, magazines, asked hundreds of people and this is something I always advise everyone to do.I decided I liked the information about a half a dozen suitable projectors (and in my case I'd been told not to worry about the price! Thank you BT Broadband !) The next step and one of the most important is to find a company who will demonstrate the models you pick and give you time to view them, without any stressful pushy sales talk. Again I found a company which specialises in this field, has a projecting suite and allowed me to take along my laptop and files to test them out.I took an image which contained a test strip with the whole range from black to white, a colour block, flesh tone portrait, landscape with clouds on a blue sky etc.I built up this test image which I then projected on all the projectors I'd asked to view.I also ran two short digital AVs on these machines. Ian Bateman had previously obtained a lottery grant and had also done a similar exercise so I am very grateful for his and all the other help and advice I received. We have had an incredible number of lecturers, who frequently prefer to bring along their own projectors, etc but often our members have remarked, of all the projectors they have seen projecting, ours is one of the most consistent in projecting the image quality both with stills and digital AVs.Our projector is the Optoma H56. As I mentioned, Ian had previously done his own research and surprise surprise they had "opted” for the earlier Optoma model to ours. The RPS recently purchased a new digital projector and again I gave the advice - do your own research, test several and make up your own mind what you want. They did so and have bought..............the latest Optoma model.I do not work for Optoma by the way or anyone else - I just think of myself as a housewife who is an AV Groupie ! ....... for the sequences not the authors so don't get excited folks! As I hate "housework", I play with my computer and taught myself to produce simple web sites (got fed up of trying to find the files on the computer). So www.digital-av.co.uk is my "filing system". When I started it, I asked those who owned digital projectors, to give me their feedback on the models they used. Would anyone mind if I linked this thread to that page too folks?My previous projector info page........Hope this helps. I am sure you will get lots of wonderful technical advice from all our experts here too. Good luck with your choice- hope it brings you many hours of enjoyment.Better get back to the dusting now I suppose!!! MaureenPS still hoping for lots more PTE entries in our WWW-DAVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Overstreet Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Wow, thanks for all the quick and informative replies folks! There's lots of grist for the mill here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gérard de Lux Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 I confirm what Ron said: all the projections I've seen with the Royale Digital (in Paris and in Cirencenster for the last RPS AV Internationals) were really good. As far as I can remember, for the very first projections in Paris 2 years ago the "old" model of the Royale used a projector which had a contrast ratio a bit too low, but the one used in Cirencester was excellent (or maybe that the screen was the "culprit"?).And Maureen's projector is also excellent !As I said previously, we are very happy with the Optoma of our photographic club; we don't use it only for PTE shows but also for projecting digital pictures; the image on screen compares quite well with the image from slides projected with our Leica RT (except for high lights [whites and bright yellows] where the slide projector still gives better results). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 The International and National AV Festivals in the UK use the Royale Projection System for the digital projection of sequences with outstanding results.The digital Royale has the big advantage of portability and it also has the massive advantage of the great technical team at the Internationals & nationals who know its workings inside and out ! Shame Colin doesn't have a web site to tell more people about it all. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 When we buy a projector, we must know for which use, I think.My projector is the "Optoma H56" (DLP - the guarantee is 3 years on site), because my choice is 80% for the "HomeCinema": but with this projector, the digital AV are also perfect (as with the Nec HT 1000 from a friend).The essential question is: the use (for the price) ! And I think some and many private users buy not the projector only for the slide-show.I tested the Optoma 739: it's a good choice, but more for different presentations in a little lighted room; also I prefered the H56 in a "cinema room" for the home cinema and for the slideshow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronwil Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 My reference to the Royale Digital Projection System was to draw attention to the PLUS Vision Corpn "Plus U3-1080" projector, the subject on which Ed was seeking advice, and not the system itself.But if comment is required on the system, my Royale was one of the first five off the production line three years ago and apart from one 'hiccup' when the on/off button was jammed through misuse, touch wood, it has given me a faultless performance both in operation and quality of projected image. Last evening for instance at a local camera club, Photocraft, I projected 14 sequences in two separate programmes of 40 minutes, each sequence being activated from an introductory sequence by the click on hidden buttons (i.e. with no visible bounding boxes). The comments at the end were of the professionalism which could be achieved with such equipment and the software (e.g.PTE) available. It does not need, and I quote, "massive advantage of a great technical team" to operate it." But thanks to Colin Balls, the designer of the System, for the pleasure it has given me in my AV productions.Ron [uK] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogs Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Hi It seems like this topic has been well and truly covered but if I may add one more comment. I am also a member of a small photography club and we have just purchased our firts digital projector. It is the InFocus 4805. This is a DLP projector as opposed to LCD. My fellow club members and I have all been impressed by the quality of the output. I cannot compare with LCD projectors as I have never seen similar images on both types of prpjector. One of the reported downsides of DLP technology was that some people experience a subliminal rainbow effect when moving eyesight direction. However no one at our Club has yet experienced this on the InFocus model we have. I cant remember all the specs off hand but you can these from the InFocus web-site.Gogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogs Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Hi It seems like this topic has been well and truly covered but if I may add one more comment. I am also a member of a small photography club and we have just purchased our firts digital projector. It is the InFocus 4805. This is a DLP projector as opposed to LCD. My fellow club members and I have all been impressed by the quality of the output. I cannot compare with LCD projectors as I have never seen similar images on both types of prpjector. One of the reported downsides of DLP technology was that some people experience a subliminal rainbow effect when moving eyesight direction. However no one at our Club has yet experienced this on the InFocus model we have. I cant remember all the specs off hand but you can these from the InFocus web-site.Gogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogs Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Sorry about the last post being duplicated. Must have got a bit trigger happy with the mouse.Gogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 a subliminal rainbow effect when moving eyesight directionTrue in home cinema, only with fast and very fast dark scenes. But with digital slideshows (I speak for mine), I never saw these rainbows.The most recent projectors have a "wheel" with eight "segments" and the rainbow practically does not exist . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globalimages Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 I had asked this same question some time ago. I lecture on Silversea and Crystal Cruises and all my lectures are slideshows. (My photography adding impact to the topic.) Until now I have used slides and have been in the market for a good projector for years not satisfied with any of the umpteen models found on ships. I have tested many machines and I finally found what I was looking for in my pricerange. It is a Mitsubishi XD450U with 2600 lumens and a contrast ratio of 2000. The cost around $2300, I use the Srgb option as far as color is concerned and I am just back from my first real experience. 30 days on the Silver Shadow in Latin American waters and I am very very pleased with the result. My presentations using P2e became much slicker, could put in music sequences and could change pictures easily as I went along. I use Nikon D1x and D2h and in each port if there was something that could better illustrate my talks on Latin American Politics, Economics and Social Issues. I could just drop them into the presentation. This is why I also support keeping the insertion and changing of slides as simple and possible and like Andrew in another post mentioned the transitions stay but the slide is what changes most of the time. Now working on the many photos I took on land for submission to my agencies and I also make a jpeg copy 1024x768 of most of them that I keep on my laptop for future use in my lectures Curt Carnemark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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