Is it me or am I expecting too much??

[Bob]

Hi Gang:

I have been using P2exe for a long time and more than pleased with this great program that Igor keeps improving over and over. I have created many CD shows to be viewd on a PC monitor and marvel at the sharpness of the presentations.

Well, I finally installed a DVD burner and burned my first slide show. I used Movie Factory 2 and selected MP3 format. Maybe I was expecting too much but... Two obvious observions.. the show was now where as sharp as the CDs and if you stand close to the TV there is a sort of flickering (best I can discribe it). If I stand further away from the TV the pix seems somewhat better but not that much.

I figure that I'm doing something wrong and wonder if anyone else has this problem?? Store-bought DVDs play great and the CD shows are really great. Any help will be appreciated... thanks

Bob..

..Sony 27" TV and Apex DVD player

[Ed Overstreet]

Hi Bob.

Welcome to the club. I think everyone has had this experience, I know I have and so have several helpful folks who replied to a similar post from me a couple of months ago.

The problem, if I understand the more technically inclined correctly, is probably a combination of the low resolution currently available in the AVI file format and the fact that no DVD burning software you or I are likely able to afford or run on our computers is as good as what the DVD-movie companies use to produce the much better DVD movie images we get from those media.

Nothing much to be done about it, as I understand. I've given up on burning my shows to DVDs, I'm sticking with the EXE versions and sharing my shows with friends on CDs, asking them to play them on their computers. I can't stand the poor quality of DVD playback I get , and anyway while most friends and family have computers not all that many of them have DVD players yet. So it's no great loss. Maybe in a few more years the technology will catch up with the superb quality of shows PTE gives us on our monitors, but for now it's a distant and meaningless dream, IMO anyway.

[Bob]

Ed;

Thanks for the reply. Guess I'll stick with the CD versions (they are great) but must say that I'm just a little disappointed. Anyway the DVDs are great for backing up the great number of photos I've piled up on my hard drive and like you we'll wait for someone to come up with a better way.

Bob..

[markoc398]

Bob, I thought the same thing. I just burnt my first pte show using Nero dvd software that I got with my dvd burner and was pleased with the results. No, not as good as on a computer monitor which is higher resolution than a tv, but not as bad a I thought. I also noticed that the imaged looked different depending on which tv I viewed it on. A standard tube set, it looked the sharpest. On a 55" widescreen it looked a bit soft. But still acceptable. Hopefully it will get better as time goes on.

[Ken Cox]

from my shimmer collection

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums//index...t=0entry13600

http://www.atitech.ca/support/products/pc/...promanuals.html

http://www.creativecow.net/articles/gerard.../pixel_madness/

http://www.pcworld.com/resource/printable/...d,107852,00.asp

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=square...nd+pixels&meta=

http://www.monitorworld.com/faq_pages/q28_page.html

and when i first sarted looking into this i studied many store displays - hollywood stuff has edge shimmer as well

ken

[Lin Evans]

Just a little addendum to everything said: Even if you don't make a slideshow for DVD, it's certainly possible to save your slideshows to a DVD and run them on the computer just as you do slideshows on CD's. The advantage, of course, is that if your executable exceeds the capacity of a CD or if you have numerous slideshows you are calling from a single menu you can take advantage of the much greater capacity of the DVD. An autorun.inf command will start and run an executable slideshow from a DVD just as it does on a CD.

Best regards,

Lin

[Bob]

Thanks Lin.... nice to hear from you.

I am aware of the muuch larger capacity of the DVDs and have burned a few smaller shows to a single DVD.

Bob..

[fxdesigner]

Hello:

Not necessarily an "expert" but have created media for playback on both CD and DVD, computer and TV.

Explaining the obvious, the two are NOT equal - (possible exception now is HDTV - rivals computer monitor).

Your computer monitor works in essence with square pixels, for sake of discussion 1 unit wide, by 1 unit high

Your TV works with a different "aspect ratio" typically 4:3 or 16:9 - as a result your "pixels" are pulled in different directions and become "soft" or blurred (and a bit distorted in a linear sense).

Your computer monitor when it is on, works with scan cycles (the time it takes for the monitor to "build" whatever is to appear on the screen at any given moment) that will "refresh" or regenerate itself from top to bottom in a measure of "frequency" known as "Hertz" - the rate (or speed) of this process determines how much "flicker" your eye perceives and the final result of flicker is ultimately determined by the person viewing the screen - one person might see a lot and someone standing right next to him may see less or even nothing. It's subjective.

Not all, but most screen refresh rates are Adapter Default, Optimal Refresh Rate, or hard values typ. 60-75. These values will vary depending on your monitor and display adapter. These settings typically can be changed by you using display >properties>settings>advanced>adapter and selecting the choices available with your system -

Again not all adapter cards/monitors are created equal so results will vary.

As a sidebar, refresh rate is an independent term from screen resolution but they are very much dependent on each other for creating the best images possible for your specific computer system. Also they are typically (but again not always) proportionate to each other - the HIGHER the screen resolution (800 x 600, 1024 x 768, 1152 x 864, etc.) the LOWER the refresh rate a typical monitor is capable of producing therefore at higher screen resolutions, flicker is possibly more evident - particularly with more inferior graphic cards/monitors.

Whew....

Now, with TV the process is similar, but yet quite different.

Your TV also scans like a monitor - BUT it scans EVERY OTHER LINE of the TV screen and then repeats the process to FILL the remainder of the screen with the contents being presented. It also works with scan cycles, but they are typically much lower than that of a computer monitor, therefore flicker is much easier to see, particularly with "sharp" or small detail imaging content. (i.e single or high contrast horizontal lines (1 pixel in size on your computer monitor and say "white" on a dark background)).

TVs are inherently a less precision viewing instument - first most of us still use a TV that receives an analog signal vs. a digital one that your computer uses. By comparison, the analog TV uses one connector, with one wire that is transmitting the picture at one frequency and the sound at another frequency over the same common wire or conduit. (Very much like a dialup modem, versus a broadband connection for the internet) On an analog system, things tend to get crowded and messy so at best the signal is "muddy" . The number of scan lines (typ. around 525) a TV possesses determines how clear, how pure and how good the contrast ratio of the pictures being presented are.

TVs also have a problem with overall display size. When a signal is sent from its source to your TV it is broadcast in such a way to permit OVERSCAN of the pictures being sent - in other words, the pictures being sent are ultimately made LARGER than your TV is capable of showing. This creates a situation that most TVs use as a SAFE ZONE where the main action, and any text/animation is presented on your TV that is marginally smaller than the overall physical display of your TV - if you have a 25" Diagonal TV screen the "safe zone" is roughly filling only about 80-85% of your TV screen from the center to the edge. The entire screen is showing images, it's just the MAIN content tends to be more in the middle of your screen. Again not all TVs are created equal, so if overscanning were not possible you would see "edges" on your TV that are blank but you will notice you typically don't, the picture goes beyond the physical boundary of your TV set or OVERSCANS.

Also you need to bear in mind because of the way a TV scans (remember every other line), the ODD and EVEN fields BLEND and as a result are not as crisp as your computer monitor. Think of a comb, turn it vertical so the backbone of the comb is to your left and the "legs" of the comb are to your right - you will immediately see solid and blank areas. This is exactly how a TV scans. ONE cycle requires TWO passes to fill in the blanks and therefore you have noticeable FLICKER.

When designing for TV output, you need to be aware of the limitations of TV - Color is one, contrast is another and content detail is yet another. TVs can only show so many colors in a set spectrum - your computer is much better at separating various shades of the same hue than your TV also the NUMBER or RANGE of color your TV shows is much less than your computer so design carefully, using something like Photoshop, there is a filter called NTSC that creates a palette from your image that is less intense in color demand that your TV is more comfortable with - an example if you use a color that is too rich (like a bright solid red) chances are you will see specks moving through the solid color on your TV because it is outside of the range of acceptable color values your TV can handle and as a result, it flickers very badly.

When say drawing a line - make it larger than 2 to 3 pixels in thickness and if possible compliment the primary color of line (say white) with the background (say black) with a subtle edge around the white line of gray. This will look blurry on your computer monitor, but very nice on your TV - again most computer imaging software have an anti-aliasing setting (removes the jaggies), make sure it is on - (this automatically matches or blends your foreground color with your background color). REMEMBER your TV is NOT a anti-aliasing device, so if you use images that aren't anti-aliased (blended and/or have sharp edges), the more noticeable the flicker.

Finally, when creating computer output to DVD, SVCD or VCD be aware of the differences in formats of your movie/avi files. If possible always output your final product to DVD as a MPEG-2 formatted file - it is a cleaner and higher resolution output than MPEG-1 formatted files. On the otherhand, if producing a SVCD/VCD you should stay with the MPEG-1 format for most DVD players that support SVCD/VCD only do so with those created as a MPEG-1 data file. (SVCD supports MPEG-2 , VCD onlys support MPEG-1 but either may not work on all DVD players).

I didn't mean to get so long-winded and by no means is this the absolute guide to making successful presentations for TV, as there are so many variables involved, but at least being aware of how the process works, should help you understand how to minimize the limitations between the two technologies.

Kind Regards,

FX Designer

[LumenLux]

We read, we sometimes learn, we often forget.

Thank you FX for your explanation.

[bharkins]

FX. that was a great tutorial. As you are very knowledgable in the TV area - and this is way off the issue of PTE - can you recommend a good TV-tuner card for a high performance PD that I am planning to build? There may be some interest in that topic from the Forum members that are interested in getting PTE into DVD and onto a TV screen.

Bill

[Ian Cartwright]

Hi FX Designer. You wrote:

Finally, when creating computer output to DVD, SVCD or VCD be aware of the differences in formats of your movie/avi files. If possible always output your final product to DVD as a MPEG-2 formatted file - it is a cleaner and higher resolution output than MPEG-1 formatted files. On the otherhand, if producing a SVCD/VCD you should stay with the MPEG-1 format for most DVD players that support SVCD/VCD only do so with those created as a MPEG-1 data file. (SVCD supports MPEG-2 , VCD onlys support MPEG-1 but either may not work on all DVD players).

You are mentioning something here which I need help with.

I am burning with Nero. My intended DVD version of a slideshow is not playing on my tv's dvd player. I can play what's on the disk through my lap top pc, but in low visual quality. My DVD player rejects the disc as unreadable. From what I have heard and what you have written above, it would seem that various DVD players might read any given slideshow, while others reject it. If I am to put slideshows onto DVD for my clients, how can I be sure that they will be able to view on their set-up? I had once a show which played on my modest-priced player, but would not play on an expensive B & O player. It seems a bit lame to say it might play to a client. Am I best sticking to .exe files?

Any tips or suggestions? Thanks in anticipation.

Ian

Just thought of a possible factor. My Lap Top PC (Fujitsu Siemens Amilo) burns only DVD+Rs. Do we have to use DVD-Rs?

[Conflow]

Home made DVD -v- Factory made DVD

FAO:-Ed Overstreet

Hi Ed,

Yes ED you're dead correct, there is a vast difference between the Homebrew DVD and the Factory DVD.

For starters, Commercial DVD Producers do not make DVD's on Disc Drives, quite the opposite.

Commercial DVDs are made with "multi-shot" Infrared Photomicrographic Techniques,there are no moving DVD-Disc's.

In fact its similar to "Rotogravure Printing" except that Laser Light is used on 'photo-sensitive dyes' instead of Printing Inks. Also like Rotogravure its a 'Laser-Etching' process where various Photo Masks are used to build up the final product.

The DVD Disc itself is a 'multi-layer' product where each layer contains a 'photo-sensitive dye' and each of these layer's will only respond to Laser Light of a particular frequency consequently its possible to beam through layers and only etch that layer of interest ~ very complex !

Within the process are embedded various 'Instruction Files' which correct for Colour Chroma, Brightness, Contrast, Colour Balance, Image Persistance, Sync Pulses, Intercarrier Stereo Sound, Pre-emphasis, and a whole range of Production Techniques making the product suitable for a standard Colour Television and you don't get flicker. (Too complex to explain here)

The single biggest quality factor is the total absence of moving parts in the Production Process which eliminates our old friend "wow & flutter" which is common to all rotating objects, Hard Drives and DVD's included. Today those mechanical frequency variations are much higher and we only "just" get away with it because of modern 'Phase-Lock Loop Tracking' correction systems.

So I'm afraid that the amateur DVD maker will always remain an amateur ~

In comparison, the 'PTE Program User' can rank with the best Professional Photographers in the World....

That's saying something !

Brian.Conflow.

[fxdesigner]

Any tips or suggestions? Thanks in anticipation.

Ian

Just thought of a possible factor. My Lap Top PC (Fujitsu Siemens Amilo) burns only DVD+Rs. Do we have to use DVD-Rs?

Hi Ian -

The easiest solution (if I were to approach the problem) is two fold -

Locally from your current DVD player ( the one hooked to your TV, I would suggest taking a quick look at the manual/internet to make sure of the formats it supports). MOST can play / read DVD+R format BUT FEWER can play DVD-R.

Similar to VHS vs BETA - so is DVD+R and -R let alone another beast to the equation > Double Layer DVDs.

Your observation about "possible factor" is in all likelihood spot-on.

Most DVD Readers/Writers (computer) are multi-functional and can accept a variety DVD/CD/VCD/SVCD media for both reading and writing.

I would buy/use a SINGLE DVD+R blank, burn it as before and then try to play it on both your computer and TV connected DVD - hopefully this helps.

Regards,

FX Designer

[Ken Cox]

I dont think this statement is correct

"Locally from your current DVD player ( the one hooked to your TV, I would suggest taking a quick look at the manual/internet to make sure of the formats it supports). MOST can play / read DVD+R format BUT FEWER can play DVD-R."

SEE

http://www.americal.com/pg/dvd-r-faq.html

http://www.videohelp.com/dvd

http://www.askdavetaylor.com/whats_the_dif...and_dvdram.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-R

my 6 dvd players will all play either type of disk

but if you get a burner that comes with a blank dvd+r disk it may be partial to that type of disk -- so if you make a master dvd+r disk nothing is stopping you from copying it to a dvd-r disk

ken

[Batman]

Hi FX Designer. You wrote:

Finally, when creating computer output to DVD, SVCD or VCD be aware of the differences in formats of your movie/avi files. If possible always output your final product to DVD as a MPEG-2 formatted file - it is a cleaner and higher resolution output than MPEG-1 formatted files. On the otherhand, if producing a SVCD/VCD you should stay with the MPEG-1 format for most DVD players that support SVCD/VCD only do so with those created as a MPEG-1 data file. (SVCD supports MPEG-2 , VCD onlys support MPEG-1 but either may not work on all DVD players).

You are mentioning something here which I need help with.

I am burning with Nero. My intended DVD version of a slideshow is not playing on my tv's dvd player. I can play what's on the disk through my lap top pc, but in low visual quality. My DVD player rejects the disc as unreadable. From what I have heard and what you have written above, it would seem that various DVD players might read any given slideshow, while others reject it. If I am to put slideshows onto DVD for my clients, how can I be sure that they will be able to view on their set-up? I had once a show which played on my modest-priced player, but would not play on an expensive B & O player. It seems a bit lame to say it might play to a client. Am I best sticking to .exe files?

Any tips or suggestions? Thanks in anticipation.

Ian

Just thought of a possible factor. My Lap Top PC (Fujitsu Siemens Amilo) burns only DVD+Rs. Do we have to use DVD-Rs?

First of all no you dont have to burn to DVD-R. DVD+R is just as compatible.

Second, are using an authoring program that convert the mpeg2 file into the required file format an directories required by a DVD player ? Just burning the mpeg2 file is not enough. Just thought I would check as I've known people to have done that. The mpeg2 file would play in a DVD player connected to the computer because it might be pulling up a video player that can play the mpeg2 file.

And to reply to the main post. You do realize that most people are looking at the content/pictures and are not sitting in their rooms talking about the quality of the pictures and how much more sharp they could be. I make DVD slideshows all of the time and never had I had 1 single person comment on the quality of the show. Consumer level software including P2E, Proshow Gold and MOTV can create spectacular DVD slideshows even on our not so spectacular low res TV's. Quit nitpicking everylittle freakin pixel and enjoy your shows.

Later

[fxdesigner]

I dont think this statement is correct

"Locally from your current DVD player ( the one hooked to your TV, I would suggest taking a quick look at the manual/internet to make sure of the formats it supports). MOST can play / read DVD+R format BUT FEWER can play DVD-R."

Just a quick note after referencing some DVD sites:

DVD-R and DVD-RW

DVD-R was the first DVD recording format released that was compatible with standalone DVD Players.

DVD-R is a non-rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 83% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.

DVD-RW is a rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 80% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.

DVD-R and DVD-RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5) and double sided 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).

These formats are supported by DVDForum.

DVD+R and DVD+RW

DVD+R is a non-rewritable format and it is compatible with about 94% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.

DVD+RW is a rewritable format and is compatible with about 79% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.

DVD+R and DVD+RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5) and double side 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).

These formats are supported by the DVD+RW Alliance.

=========================

DVD-R was the first to be introduced and is still a widely used format (September 2002)

DVD+R was introduced in early 2002 as a competing format. ---- Proponents claim better compatibility among readers. (Tests show that compatibility is roughly equal)

The two formats are WRITE incompatible but can be read on most players/drives(You must use a +R drive to write DVD+R, -R drive for DVD-R).

Companies in the “-R "camp: –

Pioneer, Toshiba, Hitachi, Matsushita Electric (Panasonic) & others.

Companies in the “+R "camp:

–Philips, Sony, Hewlett-Packard, Ricoh, Yamaha, and others

Some of these companies do not make their drives compatible with the competing formats, so the media must match the proper “camp”

I never stated that I was an EXPERT at this - I will say this - I have had experiences where DVD-R won't play in my SONY and HP DVD player / Drive (both computer and TV connected) THAT is why I simply mentioned it - The bottomline there truly is NOT ONE SINGLE ANSWER to satisfy or explain ALL available scenarios.

FX Designer

[Joy]

All this info is very interesting, but as far as I am concerned, P2E produces a low quality DVD, period. I have made slideshows with other software and burned to DVD and then used the same pictures, music, etc. in P2E, burned the file to DVD and there is definitely a noticable difference. P2E just does not produce good DVDs. I love it for exe shows.

[LumenLux]

Joy, I won't dispute what you see, but it is certainly different than my experience. When I watch one of my PTE shows on DVD, I am usually impressed how good the quality is on my tv. I also wish it were as good as the .exe file on a good pc and monitor or projector. On a couple of occasions, I have helped friends using other DVD implentations of still photos. The resulting DVD has not been up to PTE visual quality. I also know that from PTE, DVD results vary between DVD authoring programs and settings. If we are wrong here, Lin can steer us back. I guess I would suggest you look a little further into whether you can get improved results with PTE. If you can, then you can still utilize the smoothest transitions and the many other features you enjoy in PTE.

[Joy]

That is very interesting, LumenLux. I admit I have not tried P2E for DVD in quite some time because I was very disappointed in the DVD results. Maybe the program has improved (for DVD). As I said, I love it for exe.