Presentations

[ronwil]

In my opinion, one use for our presentations is to show the images which we have taken to a viewing audience. It is important therefore, in these situations, that our vision is not sent into orbit by an ever succession of different effects. So much so that by the time one's eyesight adjusts the picture has changed and its quality or interest cannot be appreciated. By all means use a particular effect for a given situation but please use it sparingly.

Ron [uK]

[ContaxMan]

Yes, Ron - IMHO you're absolutely correct. I find the fancy photoframes and/or involved backgrounds that some use equally distracting.

[Steve S]

Ron,

You make a good point.

It has long been a rule of thumb for Desktop Publishers to restrict themselves to no more than three fonts on a page; otherwise it begins to look messy and amateurish. Web designers tend to restrict themselves to a limited colour palate, such as various shades of three main colours.

When it comes to building presentations the same guidelines are valid. Often the simplest approach is the most effective, and the most professional looking.

I try to keep these things in mind for my own projects.

Steve.

[Alan Lyons]

Hi Ron et all,

I agree with all said so far. We are fortunate to hav all these fade/disolve options at our disposal. Some of these we who work (ed) in slide tape could never have imagined possible. I liken this to when Cokin filters arrived in the 1980s. For quite a while we were assaulted with images where created just because the author had the latest filter and not because the image had something to say. Thankfully, all the most outlandish filters are now safely hidden in wardrobes and attics worldwide .

The same should apply to the disolves in P2E. They are only ment to move from one image to another. They can help us do this in a very slick and show inhancing way. But when they become the reason for the show I.E. "look how clever I am". Then you have missed the point.

Used inteligently, they become part of the whole, but bad use leads to bad shows. Some times, simple things like fade to black can be very effective.

If you must kill the fly, use the swat not the S.W.A.T Team

Alan

[Ken Cox]

Alan

swat the fly here

http://www.shockhaber.com/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.htm

the longer you stay on the bigger they get

and the sound is sychronized to the swatter -- what more could one want

great for kids of all ages

ken

[ronwil]

You idiot Ken

Ron [uK]

[Ken Cox]

ya luved it Ron

ken

[Steve S]

Three with one swat!!!!!

[Alan Lyons]

Anyone know of a programme to remove dead flys and blood stains from your hard drive? Or do they just disolve over a set time?

Go lie down the lot of ye!

Alan

[Barry Beckham]

What always occures to me when looking at many slide shows is, forget the transitions and spend some time on the image quality.

Many pictures that get used not once, but sometimes, three times (first in B&W then in green, then in blue) shouldn't be there in the first place. They are not up to it and should be edited out.

The success of any group of images either hard copies or via a slide show are more affected by what the author decides not to show, more than what they do.

BarryB

[Robby]

At times I wonder what people say about my Pte efforts just to keep me happy. In the end we are all on a learning curve, even if you just learn that you should not do x, y or z as it might not be pleasing to the general viewer. In the end you should be happy with your effort. If you start making or adapting your art to satisfy others you are not giving 100% of your self.

[ronwil]

I fully agree with what you have to say Robby. When I started this thread a couple of days ago, my concern was that excessive use of the effects available caused so much distraction that one had little time to appreciate the imagery, which first and foremost is what our medium is all about.

Ron [uK]

[LumenLux]

Robby and Ron, you are so right. And I don't care how often it is said. We all have to repeatedly ask ourselves the reason for any given effort we make. I have made and posted shows that might be in some regard embarassing but I feel reach very well their purpose.

The success of any group of images either hard copies or via a slide show are more affected by what the author decides not to show, more than what they do.

BarryB

And this is a battle I still go through with myself. Sometimes an image is 10 percent "wrong" and 90 percent "perfect" and we have to decide whether including the image results in any "net" benefit to the presentation. I hope over the years that I make the right decision more often.

[Alan Lyons]

Hi All,

what Robby says has a valid point. We should never restrict our efforts to what will win a competition, or line up with another's style. But there is an agreed set of "rules" in all art forms. In photography/ paintings ect. we understand compisition, perspective, exposure and other things which will lead to a good image. These apply even if the viewer does not like or support the content of the image.

What Ron is pointing out is that the same is relevent to a completed sequence. You should not be tied to what someone else belives to be right or "nice", but if the objective is to have someone watch the sequence through, then you must make that experience as easy as you can without loosing the original reason for the show. As I said before, gimicks for their own sake are of no use to the show.

Remember, in order to break the rules, it helps to have a good understanding of the rules first.

Alan

[Steve S]

I think that you’re dead right Alan. It’s okay for someone to say that they shouldn’t compromise their Art for others but Art is about getting a message over. If someone’s artistic efforts fail to do that then they are effectively talking to themselves, it is poor Art and like poor anything is fit only for the bin.

The best communicators keep things simple. I think that’s part of what Ron was saying in his original question.

Steve.

[Ronniebootwest]

What is the matter with you all? Why is it that, whenever a topic about the standard of a slide show comes up, all the experts give us their opinion yet I seldom see a slide show posted by these 'experts'. The one exception is Barry Beckham who constantly proves his point by producing superb slide shows for us to see. Take a look at the 'Black Country' to see the very best use of transitions and superb images to see what I mean. People like me will only learn from being given 'contructive critisism' on their work whether this be for protography or PTE technique.

Ron West

[Steve S]

OOOH! Somebody got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning!

Steve.

[ronwil]

I hope I am not classed as one of your "experts" Ron. Some of us are limited as to what we upload to Beechbrook either by size of our presentations and limitations of our licences to use copyright music. However, as I pointed out just a few posts ago, my originating post to this thread was my concern that excessive use of the effects available caused so much distraction that one had little time to appreciate the imagery. Generally, if you read through the ensuing posts, that concern has been echoed by other members of the forum. By all means champion Barry, and I wouldn't disagree that the quality of his sequences and tutorials and the provision of non-copyright music CDs is to be commended, but most of us in the UK are amateurs and seeking to improve our art.

Some of the advice I have given in response to questions on the Forum (e.g. use of invisible "buttons" in the object editor)has been gleaned from members of the Forum and I have generally acknowledged that.

Long may the Forum continue.

Ron [uK]

[Ken Cox]

Ron

if you think it is bad now;what will it be like when the pan and zoom feature is brought in -- unless Igor sets some sort of control of the pan and zoom feature..

I have made a short show with dvd santa using the pan and zoom feature and while it is interesting, it has to have some sort of control so that one can study the pictures on the screen

ken

[Alan Lyons]

Hi All,

just to pick up on what Ron West said about posting. I dont post as I have a slow conection and an upload takes forever.

But what I find more valuable is to travle to events when I can. This way, not only do you get to see other's work, but also to meet the authors. I have made some great friendships and learned a lot by being around other workers.

In a print competition/ exhibition, people don't have to meet, but with A/V we are all there for the day/ weekend. These can be great events and are worth the effort.

There aer now 2 traveling circuts available www.dave in Aldbourne, Cardiff and Dublin. www.avworld.org and the Supercircut ww.diaporamacircuit.com

There are also many workshops, showings ect, so I recomend to all to get out there and get among the crowd. You'll find they are very nice people,

Regards,

Alan

[Ronniebootwest]

I agree entirely with you Alan, if people are able to meet the cost of travelling to these events. I am going to make the effort to attend one in Swindon early next month. (I think it is Swindon anyway) It is being hosted by Maureen I think and if you read this Maureen, please confirm date and venue for me.

p.s I was feeling a little down on the day that I posted that last thread I really didn't mean to upset anyone, so please do forgive me for sounding like a 'grumpy old man'

Ron West

[Steve S]

Ron,

There is a grumpy old man in us all, just trying to get out!! It does us all a bit of good to give him a bit of exercise now and again. -- unless you're female of course.

Steve.

[ContaxMan]

I agree with the comments about "events" - last year's sessions at Haworth were worth every penny of the travelling expenses.

As for posting shows, I still need to get clear in my mind the ramifications of music copywrite. Yes, I know there's some good royalty free stuff available (before BB plugs his site - only joking Barry). I just happen to like choral classical stuff and that's hard to find.

[Barry Beckham]

Ron

I am an amateur too, working full time on my proper job, which is a million miles from photography.

All

One of the great advantages for digital slide shows is that it a great medium to use our work. We can't shoot masterpieces every time we go out, (although we strive too) but we can usually shoot a variety of images that can make an interesting slide show.

What spoils a lot of them in my view could be easily put right. Perhaps I can offer some suggestions, but that is all they are and in some circumstances they should be ignored.

1. Sequences that start with a title and credit that stays on the screen so long boredom sets in before an image is seen. A few words of text, usually fairly bold on an opening image can be read in seconds, so get them off the screen quickly.

2. Don't make the sequence too long, we all do that from time to time and if you have to find a second piece of music for your images then think carefully before you add it.

3. Many sequences I see just do not match the music, either in the speed of the slides in relation to the music or the music is just dire. Adding music can enhance images, but get it wrong and it does the opposite.

4. Creating enough images for a reasonable length slide show can be time consuming and I guess that is why some images are in desparete need of a little work and I am not talking of hours of manipulation. Levels, colour, a bit of cloning and sharpening would make a world of difference.

5. Don't mix loads of different transitions within one show

6. Don't over use the black and white to colour effect. I have seen some where the same image is used a number of times, (done it myself) in different colours. Most of the time, unless the image is really powerful it is too much and the image is on screen too long.

7. Don't mix landscape and verticals constantly in a slide show, if you do need to do this, try an oval mask which can improve the transition or use the picture in picture technique.

In my view what makes a good slide show is often due to what wasn't shown, in other words be super critical of yourself when selecting the images and when the show is finished watch it twice a day for at least a week. It is not until you watch your own show many times and days later (Well after the original creative mist has lifted) that you can see the faults.

Having said all that, make your shows to please yourself and if others like them great, if not, so what.

Barry B

[Steve S]

That’s an impressive list of guidelines, and a real treasure for everyone.

Another generalisation, to be listened to or ignored as you see fit, is that the quality of the result is always a reflection of effort spent in planning. We are most likely to end up with an average result if we only apply and average amount of forethought. To be a little bit better take a little bit more effort. This applies to any activity.

Steve.