File Management System

[Ronniebootwest]

If, like me, you have loads of images piling up on your computer hard drive(s), you will know the wisdom of having an efficient method of storing and retrieving them. I would be interested to learn what systems you are all using to manage your immage collections.

1. Do you have a file naming procedure that will easily identify your images for retrieval?

2. What file structure do you use in Explorer?

3. What software do you use to assist you?

I have tried a few metghods now but am still on the lookout for the ultimate system.

Any suggestions

[Johnwnjr]

Try www.picasa.com which is a free program. You will be invited to register which you should do to immediately receive instructions by e-mail on what the program will do and advise you of any updates. It provides a most convenient way to sort and view you images on your hard disk and is a pleasure to use. It will batch images so that you can re-size them.

Another program which is fairly new is Adobe Photoshop 3.0 Elements which has a comphrehensive organizer and browser but as it also includes most of the important Photoshop features costs £70. but sometimes there are special offers.

[nickles]

I presently have in excess of 17000 of my personal photographs residing on my computer, including jpgs and raw. Unfortunately, I have yet to come up with the most straight forward filing method. About the best I've done is create a multitude of folders and subfolders that are typical as follows:

My Immediate Family

.....Daughter 1

............Grandaughter 1

............Grandson 1

Scenics

.....Flowers

.....Mountains

.....Old Houses

Vacations

.....Disney

..........2001

..........2004

etc.

This at least creates general categories and subcategories that my family members can find particular photos of interest fairly easily.

Some software that I use a lot for file remaming is CKRename that links itself in Explorer and using a right click on a folder I can quickly rename in a very flexible method and highly quick. CKRename can be downloaded free here:

CKRename Download

This is one of the best and most straightforward renaming programs that I've come across...I've used it for several years...It seems to be totally bug free but you must be careful when renaming because it's a little difficult to backup once youve renamed several hundred photographs in "one fell swoop".

A difficult task to catalogue at best.

Hope this offers a little insight.

ken

[ronwil]

My short answer Ron is "No". I haven't come up with a system for cataloguing my digital images. All of my slides are catalogued on spreadsheets for each year, with columns for Slide No.; Date; Occasion; Place; Subject; Code; Film; and Additional comments. The Code Column contained a two letter code for the type of image. The first letter of the Code was in upper case for the type heading e.g A. People; B. Views; C. Plants/Animals etc and the second letter in lower case for a sub-division of the type e.g. Ac Elder son; Bc Seascape; Cc Wild animals etc. Since I went completely digital the immediately available images with thumbnails available wherever you look - Explorer, Photoshop, Picasa etc.- my cataloguing has fallen by the wayside.

My grandson works for a firm of sports photographers. I must ask him next time I see him what software they use for cataloguing. As they must respond quickly, when they receive a request say for a picture of a star footballer, I am sure the software must be good, but unfortunately it could be pricey and possibly "a sledgehammer to crack a nut. "

Ron [uK]

[ContaxMan]

I use a MS Access database that I wrote specifically for the purpose (in my case it's a 35mm slide catalogue). Every slide (worth keeping) is classified, assigned a unique reference number and key features noted by a system of "radio buttons". So, for example, I can search for images of the Yorkshire Dales that have snow, waterfalls, taken at night, with personal friends included etc. It was a chore to get this up to date but keeping it so is not too bad. Recent slides are scanned, thumbnailed and referenced to match the database. If I ever get a decent digital camera, the process will be a bit easier, I think.

Be warned - it needs real discipline to keep up to date. Let it slip and you'll struggle to cath up.

[Ken Cox]

If I ever get a decent digital camera, the process will be a bit easier, I think.

Roger, the problem with digital picts that i have seen is the camera gives each picture a number that is just a number

when i scan 35 mm prints in i give them the proper name at the time and file them basically the same way the other Ken does

it is no big secret -- properly named picts are the answer

i start out the year with

D:\1Pictures\1_2005 collection

then i make properly named folders within that folder

then with irfanview or freshview or the like i can navigate thru the folders

when i am going to start a show i make a new properly name folder and copy the pictures, music icons etc all to that folder -- now if i want to make sure i get the picts in the prper sequence i simply rename the using windows protocol

when i had the darkroom i made a contact sheet of every roll with the date written on it - put it in a binder c/w negs and notes

filing is what we had secretary's for when i worked

ken

[bharkins]

There is no question that after several thousand images on the HD, organizing becomes a real chore. I have Picasa, EXIFviewer, Photoshop Album, and don't use 'em. I rely on Photoshop CS Browser which works well. For me, the key is organizing folders accurately, not so much the image file names. Since PS Browser uses a Windows Explorer style structure in the left pane, I set up the structure as:

Archive 2005

Animals

San Diego Zoo 020205

Wild Animal Park 112804

Next Folder Topic

Sub folder topic MMDDYY

Sub folder topic MMDDYY

(Sorry, I indented the subtopics, but it doesn't seem to indent in the Preview Post)

At the end of each year I start a new yearly archive folder. By collapsing that folder, any clutter is eliminated for the work to start on the next archive folder. It is essential for me to show the date of each shoot.

For image files, as I process the images I then save as a new name which is easily identified in Windows Explorer if I'm not in PS and can then open it from WE in PS or other image program. Finally, I make folders of individual images with a small quantity that can be covered in the Browser full screen, 30 - 40 images. Where I am shooting 2-300 images in a day (typical) I break the folders down to managable size for viewing on browser. Since I will process only 5-10% of the days shooting, I don't worry about the numbered file name done by the camera.

Sorry for this long winded post, but for me this approach works very well and can find anything of the past 2-3 years in seconds.

Bill

[nickles]

Just some wishful thinking:

I catalogue an extremely large music (MP3) database. I always use ID Tags that are actually imbedded into the MP3 files. These are totally editable by me. If someone renamed all my music files...I can quickly recover the music from the internal ID Tag as most Music Cataloging software uses this tag and disregards the actual file name. In the tag is Artist Name, Song Title, Track Number, Album Name, Genre, etc.

Unfortunately, the only internal information available in a photo file is the EXIF information, if preserved. There is very little in this file that I can edit and nearly all cataloging software relies on the File Name and not the EXIF data. I've found EXIF Viewer to be excellent for sorting through this EXIF data and permitting a very quick view of the photo. Unfortunately it is a Viewer program and has no cataloging functionality. Most photo cataloging software requires management of an external database and does not imbed data into the actual photo.

Maybe oneday the software guru's will come up with a better technique for photos like the music freaks have. Is anyone aware of software that will permit reasonable entries into the EXIF data...such as File Name, Subject or something more identifiable than date shot, exposure settings, etc. ???

ken

[DaveG]

To Bill,

Just a small point: If you use the yy/mm/dd format instead then your Files/Folders will show in a more orderly manner in Explorer.

Best wishes,

DaveG

[mbskels]

Nickles,

Not at home just now so I cannot confirm but I think that digital asset management (DAM ) products have an option that allows you to write information back to the exif data in the original image file. Have a look at Portfolio and/or Cumulus. Some photographers use these products for cataloging although they are more complex to use and tend to be more expensive.

ExifUtils (http://www.hugsan.com/EXIFutils) is a fairly low cost program for writing to the Exif data. It is a DOS command program though and not all the fields in the Exif data are writable.

I use Lupas Rename for renaming files. It gives you a preview of the file names that will be created before you hit the "Go" button and therefore avoids problems if you have got the renaming structure wrong.

Malcolm

[Barry Beckham]

This issue is an important one, but let me ask this question. How many times have you needed to find an image that you took a long while ago and how many times have you needed to do this?

I have been in this position a few times, but can usually zero into the image within a reasonably short time. If you store images chronologically you can usually put a CD in the drive and know the picture you want was taken before or after the ones on the CD and that is how I work.

If I spent a lot of time, even with good software cataloguing my images I could die in the process.

Next question. Subtract the time spent looking for those odd images from the time it would take to catelogue them all. If you end up with a minus figure then the work may be worthwhile, if not why bother.

Do you not think that this cateloging is almost an obsession with some people to the extent that it almost becomes more important than the images they shoot. I have one aquaintance who can lay his hand on any image within seconds, which is pretty impressive. He boasts about how he can find anything he wants, but:-

1. He never has the need for this speed being an amateur. (He is not running an image library)

2. This is a bit naughty, but...his images arn't worth the search!

Just wonder if this is all worth the worry?

BB

[Ronniebootwest]

Some interesting observation there Barry, but I do think that efficient cataloging of images is important (even for amateurs like me). I do agree though, that sometimes it is a bit of a task to keep things in order. However, I have now purchased software from Extensis (called Portfolio) and I am finding this very easy to use. The initial cataloging will take me a while but it is affording me the oppertunity of dumping a load of my 'crap' photo's. This software also handles music files and this serves me well in my other passtime of 'Radio DJ'ing.

My only remaining problem is to decide on a file-naming system that will suit me.

Ron

[nickles]

Malcolm,

Thank you for your response. I will investigate your suggestions.

BB,

I wouldn't dare say I'm not obsessive about some things. I find it hard to delete a photograph thats lousy to me thinking that it might be interesting to someone else.

You make some very good points. I would much rather be out shooting photos than process and file them. I've probably wasted a lot of time scanning in film and photos from my younger years( before digital), thinking that they will be valuable to somebody...at some time. I do have a lot of old family photos that date back to the turn of the century and have made a lot of reasonably nice PTE slideshows of them for relatives.

I normally don't have a problem finding a photo. It's my family that has the problem...my wife or daughters or son are always asking me..."where do I find that photo of........?". You know what I mean? I've tried to develop a filing scheme which will better enable them to find it.

Using unique folder and subfolder names seems to work best for them. They are all familiar with Paint Shop Pro's reasonably fast thumbnail browser and can normally find what they are looking for without assistance from me. Unfortunately, they haven't mastered photo printing yet. Although to me, I prefer a PTE slideshow over a printed photo album.

sincerely

ken

[Ken Cox]

Well if you own the original it is fine to dump - but in the current time frame of "digital", dumping is rather foolish without saving -- especially when cd media is so inexpensive.

if you people had seen the pictures that were presented to me to copy that had been carried in a wallet for years and heard " well it is the only picture we have of her/him and they are gone -- cant you do something with it", i think you will reconsider dumping.

ken

[nickles]

bbdigital (barry),

Just one other comment. I've been a user of PTE for several years. Made very simple slide shows.

And then....I downloaded a PTE slideshow called "The Way Things Used to Be" by an obsure artist name Beckham. What an amazing piece of work! It revitalized my PTE activities and caused me to look at slideshows in a whole different light. I find all your work to be highly creative and I have thoroughly enjoyed and learned from the shows that you have posted. But I must say, not wishing to offend any of the many excellent PTE slideshow creators that participate in this forum, "The Way Things Used to Be" is still my all time favourite PTE slideshow.

Thank you for sharing your shows. They definitely impacted my PTE work.

sincerely

ken

[boxig]

I'm not a photographer but maybe this can help:

I have a program which was not released yet called "ImageData". Checking the readme file I found this:

The "Data" button enables you to write and keep data text file for each image. You can pre-define the filelds on data page by click on the question mark button. When loading an image the data is loaded too. You can alway sedit your data.

This small program is a Thumbnail viewer. Selected image can be copied to the folder you select with the name you select. Image path is auto-sent to clipboard. BMP and JPG images can be enlarged and converted from one type to the other.

Thinking about the above, it can be easy to search all images data files and find the image you are looking for.

Is this close to the subject discussed above ?

Should I try to enhance this program ?

Thank you

Granot

[LumenLux]

Lots of useful tips and thoughts. I must agree with Barry on the trap of over-working an organization tool. And personally, I want my organization software/setup to be totally without any manual descripting done by me. To write even the simplest note on the numerous photos I take, would end my chance to do any photography.

[Ronniebootwest]

Lumenlux.

Yes I agree that you will probably have to put some time in to get your image collection up to date. However, when this is done, it should be a simple matter to keep new images up to date.

Ps. I notice mention of a Barry Beckham slide show called 'The way things used to be' is this still available for download anywhere? I would like to see it.

Ron West

[nickles]

Ron,

I mentioned to Barry about how much I liked his show called 'The way things used to be'. I was wrong about the name, it started with that subtitle. I notice it's on Barry's website and it's called Black Country. You can find it here:

Black Country

Hope Barry forgives me for misnaming his wonderful show.

ken

[ronwil]

I mentioned earlier that my grandson works for a firm of sports photographers and that I would must ask him what software they use for cataloguing. Responding to my e-mail he says

"Our archiving software is called 'Cumulus'. I am not sure if this is a professional package or whether it is suitable for anybody. The package enables us to search for pictures using a variety of methods but you need to build separate databases if you wish to catalogue each sequence individually.

As an alternative you can put all pictures on to one database and use a captioning system to allow searches to take place (our preferred method)."

Ron [uK]

[Ken Cox]

from the info proviede by Ron's son

a quick google gave this

see

http://www.wfu.edu/users/bennettk/archiving.html

ken

[ronwil]

Thanks Ken for that information. By the way it is my grandson, David. I'm older than you think.

David has also pointed out to me that in the latest March 2005 edition of the Royal Photographic Society Journal there is a 4 page piece on the different software around for archiving pictures. It is quite a detailed article and might take some time to disseminate. But if anyone has access to the RPS Journal they may like to have a go at picking out any salient information.

Ron [uK]

[Ken Cox]

I think you said a year ago you were 80 -- you have 10 on me, but that is no excuse for me missing "grand"

you can use the flyswatter on me

ken

[ronwil]

Further to my last post, I have read again the article in the RPS Journal and the names of software quoted are:

FotoStation Pro, a package designed by Fotoware

Adobe Photoshop Album 2

iView Media Pro 2

I cannot comment on them, but maybe others will.

Ron [uK]

[Ronniebootwest]

Ronwil,

Thanks for your contributions to this thread, they have all been very useful. I have tried the software that you mentioned in your last post, but do not find them as useful as the package that I am now using. It is called Portfolio 7 and is sold by a firm called Extensis. It is fully featured and quite easy to use (compared to, for example Cumulus) One of the features I like is that it allows you to 'archive' and 'backup' your images to a CD or DVd (which allows you to remove them from your hard drive). Later, when you search for these images, the program will tell you which CD or DVD the image is on - you simply insert that media into your drive and the image is retrieved. The software also keeps all of the imaged on your hard drive 'in synch' with the images in the catalog. It certainy fulfills all of my needs. I won't bore you with the full specification because you can read about it Click Here ]HERE

If you are interested, then please do take a look.