Strange presentation timings

[kenm]

I am a relatively new user to PTE, but was encouraged top have a go at a new presentation following a lecture at my camera club. It was here I found out about the Timeline and how it might be used - which was the start of my problems.

I hope someone here can help, as the support people either don't understand my problem or think a gross difference in presentation timing, depending on a simple button click, are 'normal'. Their reply to my second attempt to make sense of my results was:

"We have never received such complains. Please, could you ask for an

advice at our forum:

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php"

Hence I am here asking for help/explanation.

My problem:

I created a presentation using 66 slides and using the global settings dialogue to set the slide display time and the transition times between slides. My understanding was that the controlling factor was the slide display time with the transition time eating in to this. This should have given a presentation time of a little over two minutes at 2.5 seconds per slide. When I ran the music of this length, it lasted for just over HALF of the actual presentation time.

I thought this was my understanding, being a newcomer. So I decided to adjust the timings using the Timeline button, having found a longer bit of music. Imagine my surprise when I found that the Timeline did what I originally expected!! A two and a half minute presentation was there, not the four and a half minutes of the same presentation before I clicked the Timeline button!!!!!!!!

Has anyone any idea what is going on here, 'cos I haven't the faintest! How can the same set of global options give two completely different timing on the same 66 slides before and after a button press???!!!

Ken.

[alrobin]

Ken,

Welcome to the Forum!

If you are synching using the timeline, the timeline "duration" settings take precedence over anything you have entered into Project Options or Customize Slide. In that scenario, only the transition times can be set using Project Options/Customize Slide.

However, when setting up a new show, if you change the default duration and transition times before entering the timeline, the new times will be used as defaults instead of the normal default time of 4 sec, and transition time of 1.5 sec.

[Severn Bore]

Hi

My understanding is that you ended up with two different slide show durations without having applied any material changes between times. However, whilst accepting that this was the case, I cannot see any obvious reason why this happened. I have definitely not had this problem during the couple of years of using PtoE. Have you tried creating another short slide show to see if the same thing happens again?

[bjc]

Kenm,,,,

I hope someone here can help, as the support people either don't understand my problem or think a gross difference in presentation timing, depending on a simple button click, are 'normal'. Their reply to my second attempt to make sense of my results was

Please excuse me if this seems a little harsh – but – your request for assistance sounded more like a complaint to me. PTE is a very sophisticated piece of software, which you need to learn to ‘drive’ in order to use it well. If, at the first few attempts, it doesn’t quite seem to do what you ‘expect’ it to do, chances are that it’s not the software that is at fault.

Dear Forum (Ford Motors) – I hope someone here can help, as the support people either don’t understand my problem or think a gross difference in the speed that my car travels at, depending on whether I press down on the throttle or not, is ‘normal’. Their reply to my second attempt to make sense of this was (unprintable !?)

Having watched a lecture covering “the Timeline and how it might be used“ does necessarily mean that you understood what was being explained to you at the time.

Straight forward questions will be answered promptly and courteously by the more knowledgeable and experiences members of this forum (which, by the way, also includes members of the support/admin team and Igor Kokarev, the Product Developer himself !?).

Might I suggest though, a short period of ‘experimentation’ on your part (ideally using a lot fewer than 66 slides at a time) during which you can try out the various PTE functions. It really is quite straightforward,,, honest !!

bjc

[ContaxMan]

If you have access to broadband, might I suggest that you email me the material needed to make your show - images, music and the two PTE files you made.

If you wish to do this, I'll look at the two shows to sort out your misunderstanding and let you know why there is an apparent discrepancy.

Please be aware that English is not the first language of many users of PTE - and the admin team - so you need to be very tactful and careful with the phrasing of your enquiries.

[kenm]

As one respondent suggested, I've done some further testing - and have even stranger timings to report!

I used 18 slides (to make timings easier to calculate - see later). I then used the project settings dialogue to set the slide duration to 5 seconds and the transition effect to 5 seconds (again, to make timing calculations easier). My first gess for the duration was therefore 3 minutes in the light of previous experience. I then Previewed the presentation and it lasted for 2min 55 secs (co-incidentally, the length of the music chosen). Obviously, the first 5 second transition was missing - understandable.

I then clicked on the Timeline button to see what it made of the timings. It had set the slide transition times to the default 4 second mark, but with my own transition time of 5 seconds. A quick Preview then showed that the timings were exactly as before looking at the Timeline - 2:55. I then chose the synchronise option and, as expected from the Timeline, no slide stayed on screen fully visible and the timings were about 4secs times 18 slides.

This may seem logical to old hands with this software, but to me it seems inconsistent. To transfer the modified effects timings to the timeline but not the modified slide timings seems illogical. Logic would seem to suggest either using all the defaults or all the changed timings rather than a mixture of each.

I hope others can both follow these comments and reproduce them.

Any further comments/feedback would be appreciated.

Ken.

[alrobin]

Ken,

In synchronized mode, you can't set both the duration and transition times to the same value or you will have incompatibility problems, as PTE needs a few milliseconds between each transition to prepare for the next. Do another test, this time with something more reasonable, like duration 5 seconds, transition time 2 seconds.

[Severn Bore]

Hi again,

I have looked at your further comments and played about with the timeline myself and you are right about your experience.

I think the reason for the anomaly - as you see it - is that the timeline is designed for relating slide change points and transistions to music. If you set either a fixed display time, or (automatically) synchronise to the duration of the music, then the only variable you would want to apply to the timeline is in relationto the transition times.

Most of us use the timeline to apply our own change points in raltion to the music or commentary and also to modify the transition style and duration to suit the "mood". Therefore the perceived anomaly is irrelevant to the needs of the real world use of the timeline.

Hope this helps.

The best thing is to use PtoE a few times without getting to hung up on the details and you will then find waht a wonderful and creative program this is for very little money. Download a few of the slideshows from Beechbrook Cottage and you will soon become as enthusiastic as the rest of us.

[ronwil]

I think this is what others and myself have discussed in previous threads and the wishlist. That is a facility for one's own timings for duration and effects to be inserted on the timeline.

Ron [uK]

[bharkins]

Ken - I would like to recommend that you get Barry Beckham's CD tutorial "Pictures to Exe Starter". (He is also on the Forum). He walks the user through the process of putting together a PTE slide show and very clearly synchronizing slide timing to music, right on the beat if desired. Then later you can get his later PTE tutorials Vol 1 to 4 and watch a master at work! (I'm only a customer, not on his sales staff).

Bill

[kenm]

What I found was that the transition timing WAS transferred, but not the slide duration! I actually did another test and found that some random earlier set slide durations WERE transferred to the Timeline, but only a very few and not the current settings.

I have to say that, from my background in Computing, this smacks more of a programming bug/feature than anything else. Inconsistencies are usually donw to the side effects of errors, in my experience.

Reading the defaults from one section of a program when starting another section is not a difficult task. I'm therefore surprised that this feature has not already been implemented properly.

Ken.

PS: I decided to reply directly to this post even though I think the above comments may not go down well with some. In my defence, I first used a computer in 1966 and have recently retired from teaching Computer Science at a UK University. My areas were Programming and Software Engineering.

I think this is what others and myself have discussed in previous threads and the wishlist. That is a facility for one's own timings for duration and effects to be inserted on the timeline.

Ron [uK]

[Ken Cox]

"quote"

I am a relatively new user to PTE, but was encouraged top have a go at a new presentation following a lecture at my camera club. It was here I found out about the Timeline and how it might be used ~

Ken

have you asked the person that gave the lecture at the camera club for advice on this matter?

if you could actually show them it might be the quickest way to resolve your problem

ken

[Severn Bore]

Perhaps many of us benefit from NOT having a computer programming background and just get on and use the PtoE programme as creatively as we can. I have to say that the so-called programming bug - IF that is what it is - has never got in my way and presumably has not prevented many, many others from producing some stunning slide shows.

As I urged you in my earlier message, please use the programme to create a few shows without getting hung up on something that is clearly not a problem for 99.9% of users. I am sure if you could tear yourself away from the technicalities, youwill find PtoE a joy to use and capable of producing first class results.

Andrew

(Severn Bore)

[alrobin]

Has anyone any idea what is going on here, 'cos I haven't the faintest! How can the same set of global options give two completely different timing on the same 66 slides before and after a button press???!!!

Ken,

I think the answer may lie in the fact that before you select the timeline option, PTE uses all of the default settings in "Project Options", plus those tweaked in "Customize Slide" to control the timing of the show. So, if you have set "duration" to be 5 sec for each of 10 slides, and the the "transition time" to be 5 seconds, the total time of the show will be 10 x (5 + 5) or 100 seconds.

When you use the timeline, the transition times are embedded in the duration times (this is very logical when you look at the timeline, as the transition times then can be tweaked without disturbing the duration times). So as soon as you select "timeline" mode, the total time of the show becomes 10 x (5) = 50 sec.

The overall reason for this apparent ambiguity is probably because PTE has been a continually evolving project over some 5 or 6 years (or more). Originally, there was no timeline mode, so the additive method of calculating the times was adopted, and then to avoid re-programming, was not changed when the timeline was added to the system.

Hope this helps you to understand the thought process behind the development of this amazing software.

[Conflow]

TIMING PROBLEM'S

At the end of the day, surely it's all about enjoying PTE and what it can do ~ and within reason ~ that assumes one chooses 'realistic parameters' for the Show to work properly.

It's the reason that the Program 'default parameters' are there in the 1st.instance. They are there to allow for variations in factual Processor Timeout's. (The speed at which a particular Processor can execute a given task). That's nothing to do with the 'Operation System' nor the 'Clock Speed' but everything to do with the internal IDE-Buss Processing Speed and available Virtual Memory.

One must appreciate that PTE has to work with older '95s, throught '98 and and 2000 and XP's right up to the fastest XP's available, consequently 'default parameters' are set so this operational range can be achieved for all users.

Software:- I don't know of ANY Software Product that can't be fooled into making errors by stepping outside it's operational parameters and I have tries the best of them !

Here's a little 'Tip' where you can be assured that PTE will work properly.

* Total Music Time -minus- Total Transition Times x 1.25 = Total Available Slide Timeline.

* Where each 'Slide-Time' must be at least 1.5 times its preceeding Transition Time.

* The minimum reliable Transition Time is ½sec (for faster PC's)

For me, this algorithm works every time without failure !

Now back to enjoying my PTE Program.....

Brian.Conflow.

[ContaxMan]

Here's a little 'Tip' where you can be assured that PTE will work properly.

* Total Music Time -minus- Total Transition Times x 1.25 = Total Available Slide Timeline.

* Where each 'Slide-Time' must be at least 1.5 times its preceeding Transition Time.

* The minimum reliable Transition Time is ½sec (for faster PC's)

For me, this algorithm works every time without failure !

An interesting algorithm Brian - I'll have to test it out! If it works for me too, you'll have made my life easier.

[Conflow]

An interesting algorithm Brian - I'll have to test it out! If it works for me too, you'll have made my life easier.

Roger,

Qualification:-

The minimum Transition Time of ½.sec applies to really fast PC's ~ Tests with a fast Win '98 were on the absolute limit of stability, so I would not recommend this for 'slow' PC's irrespective what Operating Systems they are using. If in doubt use the default Transition Time of 1½ secs and proceed with the algorithm as suggested.

Brian.Conflow.

[alrobin]

Roger,

Qualification:-

The minimum Transition Time of ½.sec applies to really fast PC's

Brian,

Don't you mean "time between transitions"? I regularly use transition times of 20 milliseconds without any problem. In fact they work better than transition times of 2 seconds.

[Lloegyr]

Roger,

Qualification:-

The minimum Transition Time of ½.sec applies to really fast PC's ~ Tests with a fast Win '98 were on the absolute limit of stability, so I would not recommend this for 'slow' PC's irrespective what Operating Systems they are using. If in doubt use the default Transition Time of 1½ secs and proceed with the algorithm as suggested.

Brian.Conflow.

[Lloegyr]

Actually for over 25 years I have been using times that fit with the music, with the images and with the technology, whether it was a mechanical fader controlled by a brake cable, a multi projector setup controlled by clear light dissolve equipment or indeed PTE. Thats what I though AV shows were about! Seems to be too much heavy technical talk about at the moment. One of my shows that was on Beechbrook 3 years ago that lasted 16m 23 secs was timed to precision when PTE did not have the facilities that it now as, (as Igor will confirm I did first suggest that the timeline should be able to be zoomed in on, and that helped a lot) and it still works perfectly to the 20 millisec's on 4 crucial points 15 mins 5 secs into the show, not to mention the other critical points throughout the entire presentation. It always strikes me that if you want to achieve a result you will always find a way to do so. I find the tools that I have worked with have never let me down if I take the time to learn how to use them.

Regards

Mike

Mersea Island

England

[ronwil]

I heartily agree with what you are saying, Mike. Like you I started with a single projector and on site commentary, progressing still with a single projector but a pulsed tape. From there I arranged for the pulse to show on an indicator light and I manually dissolved on two projectors and so it progressed. I now assemble my sequences in PTE using a template and then customise certain images. It is this result , transition and effect, which I would like transferred to the timeline for the final tweak to the music. At the moment only the effect timing is transferred. However, PTE is giving me so much pleasure and as Andrew (Severn Bore) says it is a joy to use and capable of producing first class results.

Ron [uK]

[Conflow]

Brian,

Don't you mean "time between transitions"? I regularly use transition times of 20 milliseconds without any problem. In fact they work better than transition times of 2 seconds.

Dead correct Al, In fact I was alluding to your 'Shows' ~ I should have said 'Effect Duration Times'

Brian.Conflow.